- List of scientists opposing the mainstream scientific assessment of global warming (talk|edit|history|logs|links|watch) (XfD|restore)
While the closing admin gave a decent rational for his no consensus closure I believe it is flawed, the majority of Keep votes gave no reason within policy for their vote. The majority of deletes did give a reason within policy for deletion. The delete votes outnumber the keep votes, Delete votes: 29 Keep votes: 21, given this the discussion should either be relisted until such a time as a clearer consensus is reached, or the list ought to be deleted. Darkness Shines (talk) 20:15, 7 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]
- Endorse. Well, there was no consensus, was there? And if I was worried that the closing admin hadn't paid enough attention to the quality of the individual arguments, the closing rationale makes it clear that great care had been taken. In fact I think the closing statement was a very good one indeed. Unhappily, I do not share the nominator's confidence that further discussion would lead to a greater harmony of thought. Thincat (talk) 23:06, 7 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]
- endorse I can find no fault with the close. If anything I think it might have overstated the strength of the deletion argument in that discussion. But even then, this wasn't a keep. So NC is the right answer and the close is very well explained indeed. Hobit (talk) 01:09, 8 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]
- Endorse "no consensus" looks like an accurate way to sum up the discussion. I've always been against proposed numerical limits on deletion (i.e. maximum x noms or maximum x times per year) but it's hard to look at the history of this particular article, after a dozen AFDs and DRVs, and not see an attempt at victory through exhausting the community's patience. Nominating it yet again without demonstrating some new and previously unconsidered reasoning should be dealt with as disruption. Andrew Lenahan - Starblind 01:40, 8 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]
- Endorse I voted for deletion and still think that could have been a reasonable result of the close given the tallies and arguments. However, the close was well within discretion and pretty well-justified (except perhaps I wish Sandstein had discussed the keep arguments in a bit more depth). Vehemently disagree with the assertion above that there should be a permanent moratorium on further deletion discussions, although restricting to 1/year is probably fair. This article is unquestionably divisive... probably the only list on Wikipedia with more than 30 archived discussion pages... Sailsbystars (talk) 02:46, 8 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]
- Endorse, particularly given the closing admin's lengthy remarks and reasoning. There was clearly no consensus in this discussion and neither side presented any brilliant policy-based arguments that would have given the closing admin room to deviate from closing the discussion as it was closed. Lankiveil (speak to me) 13:31, 8 January 2014 (UTC).[reply]
- Request Modified resultAnnual AFDs will only end when this has been deleted or we have a community consensus over the various perennial claims of OR/POV/FRINGE/BLP/whatever..... the best way to do that is for the deletion process to "retain jurisdiction", send us to the talk page under fear of WP:ARBCC, let everyone involved give the climate DS template warning and log it, and then, once we're at the talk page, work through a list of FAQs that address the various points. Each perennial argument, be it a VAGUEWAVE or something articulate, should be thus laid to rest in the FAQs, or the page should be deleted. This is pretty much what the closing admin weakly suggested, but I request you keep our feet to the fire by re-opening the AFD with instructions that a future closing decision will be based on the FAQ discussions at the talk page, at a time to be determined. That way, we might actually work constructively, and one way or another, bring the annual AFD parade to a halt.
- PROCESS ERROR Neither this version of the article or this version of the talk page tells editors that deletion review is underway; I was expecting this so I came looking, and voila! Here it is! Could an admin who knows the right clerk lever to pull please flag the article/talk page so people know? The dang thing is protected right now so it will take the hand of god's angels. Thanks. NewsAndEventsGuy (talk) 13:41, 8 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]
- Endorse. Well-reasoned close. I would weight the arguments slightly differently, but still come to no consensus. --Stephan Schulz (talk) 14:17, 8 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]
- BTW, I was also impressed with the statement, despite my request (above) for a modified result.NewsAndEventsGuy (talk) 14:37, 8 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]
- Comment I would like to thank the closing admin for daring to stick their neck out and for writing the reasoned close. I was for keep and asked those wanting to delete to say what grounds in BLP they were going on about as it is a large policy but I didn't get specific sections referenced. That's practically the exact opposite impression to the OP as far as policies and guidelines were concerned - so I guess we're both unsatisfied and that's about as how it should be from what was said at that AfD. Dmcq (talk) 14:34, 8 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]
- Climate change denial is a stupid, dangerous and irresponsible view held for short-sighted, short-term political and economic reasons by a small number of extremists in the few nations on the planet blind enough to deny the almost unanimous consensus among people who actually know what they're talking about. But, we're trying to be an encyclopaedia, so our job is to inform and educate, and one of the things we inform and educate about is lies. I mean, Wikipedia isn't Snopes, but we do have articles about notable lies, such as chupacabras and sasquatches and area 51, and it's right that we should. Climate change denials is one of the lies that Wikipedia should cover. Retaining this list is appropriate. I'd endorse Sandstein's well-reasoned close which lets us get to the correct outcome while remaining firmly within the deletion guidelines for administrators.—S Marshall T/C 15:14, 8 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]
- Comment the above rant is exactly why this list is problematic. The inference that it is a list of "climate change denial" is fundamentally flawed and the conflation cannot be undone. Neither can the stigmatizing harm be avoided, deserved or not. --DHeyward (talk) 16:34, 8 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]
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- We could allow anyone to speedy delete anything and give no opportunity for review. That would save even more time. And it seems (below) some people do not find it necessary to waste time reading an AFD close before endorsing or overturning it. Thincat (talk) 09:23, 9 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]
- I was commenting more about this being the sixth deletion nomination and the problems with the article listed by the closing admin should have been addressed by now. Instead it will only waste more time. It's not like the issues are new or the main editors of the article have changed. Nor have opinions expressed by those that haven't read any any of the comments likely to change. --DHeyward (talk) 16:42, 9 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]
- strong endorse climate skepticism/denialism is a highly notable topic and the list is well sourced. If there are issues with individual members of the list, they should be removed, but categorizing a list of notable people who have a notable view is not a policy violation, regardless of what we think of the view. Gaijin42 (talk) 18:05, 8 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]
- I was. thanks for pointing it out, I have updated my !voteGaijin42 (talk) 18:18, 8 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]
- Endorse - While I will be the first to admit that my !vote should have been discounted, I find it impossible to conclude that the AfD could have been interpreted in any other way than "no consensus". Many of the deletion supporters had excellent arguments, but so did quite a few of the opposers. Props to Sandstein for doing such a fine job of closing such a difficult AfD.- MrX 18:37, 8 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]
- Endorse - Normal Wikipedia policies support this article perfectly well, including the fact that anyone can suggest or challenge any entry at any time, especially if they have new citable sources about the position of the scientist listed. Gradually over the years, I expect the list to diminish in size until there are only one or two outliers who still think that they can legitimately argue that the science is somehow flawed. At that time, the list can be deleted. Until then, those who disagree with the science for whatever reason, should rejoice in an article that shows that we are able to find a couple of dozen published scientists (in some field) who agree with you. --Nigelj (talk) 19:58, 8 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]
- Endorse I admit I should have changed my vote but I honestly didn't think this AfD would last this long. Nevertheless the closing admin went through all the votes and examined and there is no consensus. Just because the deleted votes beat the keep votes doesn't mean the article should be deleted. There was 50 votes 29/21 so the delete votes gathered was about 58%. Does 58% of the votes for the deletion sound like a consensus? JayJayWhat did I do? 20:51, 8 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]
- Endorse. The close was very compellingly argued as no consensus. Sławomir Biały (talk) 14:45, 9 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]
- Endorse My !vote actually was delete, but if I would have had to close this my conclusion would also have been NC (although I would probably not have been able to provide the well-reasoned rationale that Sandstein provided). Many !votes on both sides were, as noted, not policy-based and those that were, more or less evened out. Let's wait a year and if things haven't improved by then, bring it to AfD once more and this time try to limit ourselves to policy-based arguments, instead of bickering whether or not John Doe should be on the list or not and such. --Randykitty (talk) 17:25, 9 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]
- Endorse Closer clearly weighted the arguments and I see no fallacy in their rationale. There was nothing to suggest it should be deleted as the outcome if it needed to be relisted and nothing suggests a clear consensus would come from relisting. Mkdwtalk 19:08, 9 January 2014 (UTC)[reply]
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