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Nikokiris

22 September 2022

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Suspected sockpuppets

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Hello. Please reference a summary table I have put together at User:Local hero/sandbox. These six accounts share some odd similarities:

  • All accounts are single-purpose accounts focused on replacing "Macedonian" with "North Macedonian" wherever possible and have no or a few edits outside of this narrow topic;
  • Aside from the original account, all accounts were created in a three-month period from April 2020 to June 2020;
  • Each account went through a hiatus of 2 years to 2 years and 10 months long (one account broke its hiatus with an edit in June 2021, another broke its hiatus with an edit in July 2021 and three in Nov 2021)
  • All of these hiatuses ended in the same two-week period of late July thru mid-August 2022
  • Four of these accounts have very similar userpages (two have not created a userpage):
    • Propilov's has just its signature; Korpalo's used to have just its signature
    • Carpaniola's has "under construction"; Ο_Ροζ_Πάνθηρας used to have "more about me soon"; Korpalo's has "This is not written yet."
    • Ο_Ροζ_Πάνθηρας has a one-line bio
  • Examples of editing the same pages:

The Editor Interaction Analyser shows further common pages edited. Thus, based on the common single purpose, on the similarity of pages edited, on the weird hiatus timings, on the similar account creation dates (see my sandbox), etc., I believe all of these accounts are related.

If they are indeed found to be sockpuppets, they were essentially able to orchestrate what a closing user deemed a consensus at an RM. This could happen next at Talk:Doiran Lake and other pages. Thank you. --Local hero talk 04:25, 22 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Comments by other users

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Accused parties may also comment/discuss in this section below. See Defending yourself against claims.

Local hero is right, the accounts Carpaniola, Propilov, and Nikokiris belong to the same user (me). None of those accounts made edits in the same page confirmed by the Editor interaction utility, and as far as I know multiple accounts are allowed. I used multiple accounts for edits that cannot be tracked by a user who wants to revert them. This essentially happened yesterday when Local hero reverted all my edits by looking at the history of Nikokiris in Outline of North Macedonia, Naturalization, North Macedonia in the Eurovision Song Contest 2019, 2022 North Macedonia protests. Local hero removes "North Macedonian" form every page (confirmed by many of his edits), and he does that even for cases that WP:MOSMAC suggests "North Macedonian" to be used, e.g., "North Macedonian Prime Minister" which is reported as a concrete example in MOSMAC, and Local hero removed it (yesterday) in 2022 North Macedonia protests. The disruptive edits of Local hero on pages of North Macedonia is under discussion under WP:MOSMAC talk page and WP:ANI.

I promise not to make changes in the same page with any of my three accounts (Carpaniola, Propilov, and Nikokiris) or I can delete two of them if you prefer. The other three accounts (Ο Ροζ Πάνθηρας, Pratishthana, and Korpalo) are unrelated to me (and my edits) and they are also perhaps unrelated to each other except the common edits related to North Macedonian denar page, talk page, etc. Apologies for bringing this work to you, it's my fault because I made edits with Nikokiris and Carpaniola accounts on different pages (thought) within a few hours and Local hero didn't like that, although my changes are correct according to WP:MOSMAC. Nikokiris (talk) 07:43, 22 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]

The accounts Local hero and Kluche coordinate edits in multiple pages confirmed by Kluche's short history of edits. Nikokiris (talk) 07:57, 22 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]

@Nikokiris, to my recollection, there have been three (the Denar page, Struga and the Gun laws in North Macedonia) common edits between me and Local hero. By all means, part from those edits and edits in general, what indicates that I'm a sockpuppet?
Also this discussion for sockpuppetry, not MOSMAC. Kluche (talk) 17:30, 22 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Kluche, It's very suspicious how you got notified about this, I don't see anybody mentioning you here. Your common edits with Local hero are too many to report them here, the Editor Interaction Analyser can show all of them. I will focus on some of your common edits. It's very suspicious how Local hero was notified on Gun law in North Macedonia in about 7 hours although he never edited that page (the page was stable for years and has very few edits). It's very suspicious that you and Local hero participated in the RM for North Macedonian denar. You are right, you coordinate edits in Struga too.
These are at least three examples where Local hero and Kluche tried to form consensus in page with very limited participation of users. What I don't understand is how can (Carpaniola, Propilov, Nikokiris) are accused of sockpuppetry although they didn't edit the same pages and didn't try to form any consensus. Local hero and Kluche formed consensus on two pages, and it's very suspicious that no other user (including me) noticed the RM in North Macedonian denar, and the set of the same users (Local hero, Kluche) noticed it. It could happen once but it was repeated in Gun law in North Macedonia too. Nikokiris (talk) 19:25, 22 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Nikokiris I wasn't notified (albeit I thought that it is common etiquette to notify a user when you are accusing them of something) - I checked on my ANI report and saw both the comment for the talk in MOSMAC and the comment for this. I have literally said multiple times in regards to the consensus on the gun laws page that more time should be given in order for more editors to get involved in the conversation. You can check that yourself. I neither know nor care how Local hero found out about Gun laws in North Macedonia, I have no contact with the user. The matter is also settled (at least I think so). Also, if I may ask, where have me and Local hero formed a consensus? Certainly not Struga, the Denar page nor the gun laws one. Kluche (talk) 21:13, 22 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]
A perhaps interesting observation: Local hero and Kluche failed to achieve consensus in Gun law in North Macedonia because of other (independent) editors who got involved (thanks to Carpaniola who report the edit war in ANI). Local hero and Kluche failed to achieve consensus in North Macedonian denar and they report all the editors who participated in the RM (Ο Ροζ Πάνθηρας, Pratishthana, and Korpalo) -- (I was not aware of the RM and didn't participate there). By looking in the RM, Local hero strongly opposes from the beginning until the end the usage of North Macedonian denar. Then Local hero didn't like the move decision and opened a review (unrelated to sockpuppetry). His problem was consensus, and the closer responded that consensus is not form based on !votes. Consensus was formed based on the list of reliable sources reported by Korpalo. Other independent users agreed with the closer, and Local hero started attacking to everyone who endorses the RM. All these tell me that Local hero and Kluce have one goal, to remove "North Macedonian denar" and they give work to editors in the move review and now in this sockpuppet investigation. Local hero left a comment in the move review today to inform them about this investigation. With the solid evidence of reliable sources and WP:MOSMAC provided in RM, I don't see what Local hero tried to change. Beyond these common edits in North Macedonian denar, I don't see any connection of the reported accounts (including mine). Nikokiris (talk) 19:47, 22 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Where have I reported an account other than Carpaniola? I wasn't even aware that Local hero had reported accounts prior to you stating that. I wasn't even engaged that much in the RM, I made two comments, that's it, and my position was different to Local hero's one. Kluche (talk) 21:13, 22 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]

(responding to Bbb23) Edits tracked by a user like Local hero who looks at all edits and starts reverting. By having multiple accounts to editing different pages, for example Local hero could not track the edit. The edit made in Gun law in North Macedonia (by Carpaniola) was not detected by Local hero for more than 2 years because the edit was made. Yesterday, when I made edits in 2022 North Macedonia protests (by Nikokiris) and added "North Macedonian" Prime Minister, Local hero reverted my edit and then looked at my history of edits and reverted more recent edits that he didn't detect earlier in Outline of North Macedonia, Naturalization, and North Macedonia in the Eurovision Song Contest 2019.

It's important to highlight that all my edits that add "North Macedonian" are based on wikipedia policies and consensus defined in WP:MOSMAC. In 2022 North Macedonia protests, I added a detailed comment Bulgarian and Albanian prime ministers are reported explicitly, the North Macedonian is not, causing confusion to the reader, I improve the text per MOSMAC: "in line with the reliable sources, adjectives may still be used when referring to such institutions in generic terms (e.g. the Greek and North Macedonian prime ministers), especially where the possessive form would be grammatically cumbersome or unnatural.", North Macedonian as natural and not cumbersome as Albanian and Bulgarian and explained why North Macedonian is the correct fix according to WP:MOSMAC, but Local hero reverted my edit with the excuse of links. His only goal was to delete "North Macedonian Prime Minister", violating MOSMAC. Unfortunately, my motivation to maintain multiple accounts is users like Local hero who violate wikipedia policies and MOSMAC.

If Local hero (and his friends) didn't revert my edits, I wouldn't have any motivation to create multiple accounts. Nikokiris (talk) 18:59, 22 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]

  • Retiring If someone wants to report Local hero and Kluche for sockpuppetry, feel free to do it. I have exposed enough evidence with pages they failed to achieve consensus and many suspicious elements. I have no energy left to deal with those editors, and my expectations for proving something are too low because everyone uses VPN in nowdays (including me). This is my last message on wikipedia. I will not respond to any other message. I admitted that Carpaniola and Propilov are used by me. You will never see any edit by Carpaniola and Propilov (you can block them if you want), and you will not see any edit by Nikokiris unless Local hero and Kluche are enforced to accept MOSMAC. Until then I wish you all the best and apologies for giving you work. Nikokiris (talk) 21:05, 22 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]
I'd just like to add that I'm pretty sure that prior to this, I haven't had an interaction with Nikokiris, and I'm certain I didn't know about the account's existence.Kluche (talk) 21:24, 22 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Clerk, CheckUser, and/or patrolling admin comments

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@Nikokiris: I used multiple accounts for edits that cannot be tracked by a user who wants to revert them. I don't understand what that means; can you elaborate?--Bbb23 (talk) 13:29, 22 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]

For any other admin/clerk/checkuser who looks at this mess, I am going to interpret what I think Nikokiris is saying above. They created multiple accounts so that Localhero and Kluche (whom they allege are either sock puppets or meat puppets) could not follow Nikokiris around reverting their edits. The closest that comes to being a legitimate reason for creating undeclared alternative accounts is privacy. I won't offer an opinion as to whether in this case it is legitimate.--Bbb23 (talk) 19:09, 22 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • CheckUser requested and endorsed by clerk - Nikokiris has admitted to operating Carpaniola and Propilov, but not the other accounts. However, the other accounts share a number of behavioural similarities, even beyond those listed in the filing (e.g. edit summary style and editing clients). Endorsing CU to investigate the relationships between these accounts. Thanks, Spicy (talk) 04:16, 23 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  •  Confirmed Ο Ροζ Πάνθηρας, Korpalo, Kunupe, Carpaniola, Nikokiris, Propilov. More evidence needed if you want Pratishthana checked. -- Amanda (she/her) 09:03, 23 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Thanks, AmandaNP. For Pratishthana, see the history of Talk:North Macedonian denar, where they are commenting with the same viewpoint in close proximity to the confirmed accounts Ο Ροζ Πάνθηρα and Korpalo [1]. 3/4 of people supporting this proposal are suspected sockpuppets. Ο Ροζ Πάνθηρας, Korpalo and Pratishthana all tend to write lengthy comments with overuse of bold markup: [2][3][4]. As with other accounts, Pratishthana only uses the source editor. Spicy (talk) 00:21, 24 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]
    As I thought, Pratishthana is Red X Unrelated. -- Amanda (she/her) 04:00, 24 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Thanks. I've moved this case to the oldest confirmed account. Pink clock Awaiting administrative action - please indef Nikokiris, Ο Ροζ Πάνθηρας, Carpaniola, Korpalo and Propilov as confirmed socks of each other. This is obviously not a legitimate use of alternative accounts. No action with respect to Pratisthana. Spicy (talk) 04:06, 24 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Blocked & tagged as requested. Closing. firefly ( t · c ) 11:04, 24 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]

15 October 2024

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Suspected sockpuppets

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Hello. This editor has been suspicious to me from the very beginning. They created their account on 15 September 2024, yet already know some policies and guidelines, including MOS:MAC. They also have a few edits, mostly focusing on Talk:Macedonian denar, which was also the focus of confirmed sockpuppets like Ο Ροζ Πάνθηρας and Korpalo (1 and 2). Another thing that caught my eye is when they notified Wikipedia:Wikiproject Greece regarding the move request of Macedonian denar (see diff) and canvassed on the Greek Wikipedia (diff) about it. I think this is worth an investigation. StephenMacky1 (talk) 22:53, 15 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Comments by other users

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Accused parties may also comment/discuss in this section below. See Defending yourself against claims.

I came here to make a similar request. Best, Reading Beans 03:23, 16 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

This user's 19th edit was to start a move discussion on a topic whose last move discussion was badly socked, and while I don't have specific proof apart from WP:DUCK the style of arguing and edit patterns (including only posting discussion of a Macedonian move on the Greek WikiProject) are similar to the ones used by the socks in the last discussion. NOTE: I didn't see there was already an open discussion, apologies! SportingFlyer T·C 20:37, 16 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Clerk, CheckUser, and/or patrolling admin comments

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