Wikipedia:Suspected sock puppets/MarkThomas

The following discussion is an archived debate of the case of suspected sockpuppetry. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page. All edits should go to the talk page of this case. If you are seeing this page as a result of an attempt to open a new case of sockpuppetry of the same user, read this for detailed instructions.

User:MarkThomas

Suspected sockpuppeteer

MarkThomas (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · page moves · block user · block log)

Suspected sockpuppets

LiberalViews (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · page moves · block user · block log)
Sarah Williams (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · page moves · block user · block log) (added per [1])
86.135.32.117 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · page moves · block user · block log) (added per [2][3])

Report submission by

One Night In Hackney₃₀₃ 17:21, 9 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Evidence

My radar started bleeping when MarkThomas came to the defence of LiberalViews on Rockpocket's talk page here.

MarkThomas's block log is important first off. He was blocked at 11:54, 8 November 2006. LiberalViews account was created at 13:34, 8 November 2006, while MarkThomas was blocked. LiberalViews very first edit was to Co-counselling, an article which MarkThomas has edited extensively both before and after, see the history.

At 17:55, 8 November 2006 MarkThomas was blocked for longer for evading the existing block, using a sockpuppet confirmed by this checkuser. Note that the last edit from the sockpuppet was adding back the information LiberalViews had added back after it had been removed, which was then removed by another editor.

Another editor remarked that LiberalViews account was created on the very same day that MarkThomas was blocked. Both accounts take a keen interest in the George Galloway article as well, both accounts sharing the same viewpoint on adding a statement about Saddam Hussein to the lead. There's also a related discussion here.

Recently LiberalViews has migrated to the Great Irish Famine article, which MarkThomas also edits and was also a participant in Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Great Irish Famine. LiberalViews almost instantly attacked Domer48 on the talk page, which is something MarkThomas has repeatedly done with his normal account prior to the ArbCom and being sanctioned, for example see here.

There's also the allegations of allegedly biased allegedly Irish allegedly POV admins like User:SirFozzie from LiberalViews, such as this, this and this. MarkThomas has previously made several such comments, such as this, this and this.

After an few initial edits on 8 November 2006, the account was dormant until 26 August 2007. All edits since then from both accounts are below in chronological order, MarkThomas in italics and LiberalViews in normal face and indented. Anything in bold is where a talk page post is in the slightly unusual format of "==text==" which is common to both accounts.

Click to see contribs

21:52, 7 November 2007 (hist) (diff) User talk:Rockpocket‎ (OK, technically right - but it is not abuse to challenge a source)
21:38, 7 November 2007 (hist) (diff) User talk:Rockpocket‎ (Nope)
20:48, 7 November 2007 (hist) (diff) User talk:Rockpocket‎ (Oh please)
13:44, 7 November 2007 (hist) (diff) Elizabeth II of the United Kingdom‎ (Pimlott book best or one of the best overall biographies)
13:10, 7 November 2007 (hist) (diff) User talk:Rockpocket‎ (Specific points in articles)
12:17, 7 November 2007 (hist) (diff) User talk:Rockpocket‎ (Not sure that LiberalViews wasn't unwisely over-reacting to some classic VK?)

16:33, 4 November 2007 (hist) (diff) User talk:SirFozzie‎
16:31, 4 November 2007 (hist) (diff) User talk:Rockpocket‎ (→Get off and stay off my talk page - Is Sir Fozzie burned out?)
16:27, 4 November 2007 (hist) (diff) User talk:LiberalViews‎ (→Last warning - Just part of the control process for Republican-dominated articles)
14:58, 4 November 2007 (hist) (diff) Mary I of England‎ (She was of Spanish descent)
14:47, 4 November 2007 (hist) (diff) Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Irish Republicanism‎ (No, a serious contribution to the debate)
14:46, 4 November 2007 (hist) (diff) Talk:Martin Meehan (Irish republican)‎ (→"Allegedly" confessed)
14:43, 4 November 2007 (hist) (diff) Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Irish Republicanism‎ (Articles controlled by Republicans - practical suggestion)
14:38, 4 November 2007 (hist) (diff) Talk:Martin Meehan (Irish republican)‎ (→"Allegedly" confessed)
14:35, 4 November 2007 (hist) (diff) User talk:Raymond Cruise‎ (== Mary I of England == - why remove the spanish descent category?)
12:47, 4 November 2007 (hist) (diff) User talk:One Night In Hackney‎ (→Hilary Clinton - Personal attack noted)
12:45, 4 November 2007 (hist) (diff) Talk:Martin Meehan (Irish republican)‎ (→"Allegedly" confessed - Did you mean "the tote")
12:22, 4 November 2007 (hist) (diff) Talk:Martin Meehan (Irish republican)‎ (Poor Wikipedia)
11:59, 4 November 2007 (hist) (diff) Talk:Martin Meehan (Irish republican)‎ (Republican editors apparently support the production of confessions by torture and will control Wikipedia entries to ensure their wierd view is maintained)
11:57, 4 November 2007 (hist) (diff) User talk:Rockpocket‎ (→Get off and stay off my talk page - More evidence as if we needed it)
11:36, 4 November 2007 (hist) (diff) User talk:Rockpocket‎ (→Get off and stay off my talk page)
11:23, 4 November 2007 (hist) (diff) Martin Meehan (Irish republican)‎ (→Background and IRA activity - Most accept that "confessions" produced by torture are unreliable)
11:21, 4 November 2007 (hist) (diff) Martin Meehan (Irish republican)‎ (→Background and IRA activity - I checked and neither of the stated sources say this. WP is not a propaganda outlet.)
10:52, 4 November 2007 (hist) (diff) Karl Marx‎ (→Articles and entries - Whatever else he was, one thing Marx wasn't was a Marxist! Marxists are followers of Marx. See talk page discussion.)
10:15, 4 November 2007 (hist) (diff) Mary I of England‎ (→Childhood and early years - Correcting - they weren't king and queen of "Spain" as previous format implies, but of Aragon and Castile)
08:36, 4 November 2007 (hist) (diff) Henry VIII of England‎ (→Later years - Ammending sentence - poor grammar and sentence flow)
08:30, 4 November 2007 (hist) (diff) Henry VIII of England‎ (→Execution of his second wife, Anne Boleyn - Presumably it's fairly obvious that witchcraft did not actually occur!)
08:23, 4 November 2007 (hist) (diff) Henry VIII of England‎ (→Early life and first marriage - Sentence makes no sense here; Henry was not yet married to Catherine - happened in 1509)
21:22, 3 November 2007 (hist) (diff) User talk:Philippe‎ (→Great Irish Famine - thanks Phillippe for following my request)
21:19, 3 November 2007 (hist) (diff) User talk:LiberalViews‎ (→Great Irish Famine - based on frustration)
20:01, 3 November 2007 (hist) (diff) Talk:Great Irish Famine‎ (Refer Domer48 for page-level ban)
19:46, 3 November 2007 (hist) (diff) User talk:Philippe‎ (→Great Irish Famine - Article-level ban on Domer48 - thanks Philippe)
17:21, 3 November 2007 (hist) (diff) Talk:Great Irish Famine‎ (→Editors' preferences and comments - Support C.)
16:33, 3 November 2007 (hist) (diff) User talk:Philippe‎ (→Great Irish Famine - Domer48 would be the first candidate for an article-level ban)
16:10, 3 November 2007 (hist) (diff) Talk:Great Irish Famine‎ (Domer48 does not own this article)

13:39, 3 November 2007 (hist) (diff) Talk:Great Irish Famine‎ (Reverted the list (again))
13:38, 3 November 2007 (hist) (diff) m Great Irish Famine‎ (Revert to revision 168936760 dated 2007-11-03 13:17:55 by Abtract using popups)
13:36, 3 November 2007 (hist) (diff) Talk:Great Irish Famine‎ (Opposite is true)

18:46, 2 November 2007 (hist) (diff) Talk:Great Irish Famine‎ (→YI Books tangentially related to the main topic - Paraphrase of Domer48s response)
09:09, 2 November 2007 (hist) (diff) m Talk:Great Irish Famine‎
09:08, 2 November 2007 (hist) (diff) Talk:Great Irish Famine‎ (→YI Books tangentially related to the main topic - Nonsense)
19:58, 1 November 2007 (hist) (diff) Talk:Great Irish Famine‎ (→Citation Tags - Question was for Mackensen)
19:25, 1 November 2007 (hist) (diff) Talk:Great Irish Famine‎ (Is Domer48 edit-warring - Mackensen, please advise)
19:23, 1 November 2007 (hist) (diff) Talk:Great Irish Famine‎ (→Government response - Mackensen doing a good job carefully checking references)
19:21, 1 November 2007 (hist) (diff) Talk:Great Irish Famine‎ (→Arbitration followup - - please explain)
18:48, 1 November 2007 (hist) (diff) Talk:Great Irish Famine‎ (→Arbitration followup - Support)
18:36, 1 November 2007 (hist) (diff) Great Irish Famine‎ (Abtract's edit on this is clearly right; the list does not belong here and there needs (as other editors are arguing) to be consensus on the talk page. If this persists the article needs protection.)
18:32, 1 November 2007 (hist) (diff) Talk:Great Irish Famine‎ (→Citation Tags - - strongly disagree - suggest page protection)
18:30, 1 November 2007 (hist) (diff) Talk:Great Irish Famine‎ (→order of the sections - MarkThomas hasn't said anything incivil just pointed out facts)

16:47, 31 October 2007 (hist) (diff) Talk:Great Irish Famine‎ (Fine with me)
16:44, 31 October 2007 (hist) (diff) Talk:Great Irish Famine‎ (== order of the sections ==)
16:16, 31 October 2007 (hist) (diff) Talk:Great Irish Famine‎ (Reverse on Young Ireland - can we try to reach consensus first?)
16:14, 31 October 2007 (hist) (diff) Great Irish Famine‎ (Extensively under discussion on Talk page without consensus yet; last edit by Domer48 therefore pre-empts a valuable discussion and we should achieve consensus first; also this list belongs elsewhere)
14:02, 31 October 2007 (hist) (diff) Talk:Great Irish Famine‎ (Young Ireland - agree with Dppowell)

08:48, 31 October 2007 (hist) (diff) m Banksy‎ (→Real identity - tidy - comma)
08:15, 31 October 2007 (hist) (diff) Banksy‎ (→Real identity - tidy)
08:14, 31 October 2007 (hist) (diff) Banksy‎ (→Real identity - BBC news story claiming to show photo of Banksy)

16:46, 29 October 2007 (hist) (diff) Talk:British Isles‎ (Or "blue-green"? MT would have approved.)

18:55, 28 October 2007 (hist) (diff) Nick Clegg‎ (It doesn't matter, everything in the deleted segment is factually correct and even referenced; quit deleting stuff you happen to dislike)
16:54, 28 October 2007 (hist) (diff) Nick Clegg‎ (Undid revision 167651049 by Swooper (talk))
12:33, 28 October 2007 (hist) (diff) Nick Clegg‎ (Restoring valuable contextual information)

09:26, 26 October 2007 (hist) (diff) Talk:Great Irish Famine‎ (1851 census - wrong to delete this referenced material)
09:17, 26 October 2007 (hist) (diff) Talk:British Isles‎ (Britirish - right!)

19:32, 27 October 2007 (hist) (diff) Re-evaluation Counseling‎ (Re-inserting fully and correctly referenced material after unwarranted deletion)
17:02, 21 October 2007 (hist) (diff) Talk:Chris Huhne‎ (→Infobox - - Vincent Cable article infobox format seems to be the correct one)
17:02, 21 October 2007 (hist) (diff) Talk:Nick Clegg‎ (== Leader ==)
16:59, 21 October 2007 (hist) (diff) Talk:Chris Huhne‎ (== Infobox ==)
16:57, 21 October 2007 (hist) (diff) Talk:Nick Clegg‎ (== Leader ==)
14:33, 21 October 2007 (hist) (diff) Nick Clegg‎ (→Education - clarification on the "arson" charge, see talk page)
14:31, 21 October 2007 (hist) (diff) Talk:Karl Marx‎ (→Was Marx a Marxist? - stop peeking Fys!)
13:58, 21 October 2007 (hist) (diff) m Talk:Karl Marx‎ (→Was Marx a Marxist? - missed a couple of words, sorry)
13:58, 21 October 2007 (hist) (diff) Talk:Karl Marx‎ (→Was Marx a Marxist? - no)
13:42, 21 October 2007 (hist) (diff) Talk:Karl Marx‎ (→Was Marx a Marxist? - - the term was created after Marx)
13:40, 21 October 2007 (hist) (diff) Talk:Nick Clegg‎ (→Arson - - no, it's for clarification and de-POV)
12:22, 21 October 2007 (hist) (diff) Talk:Karl Marx‎ (== Was Marx a Marxist? ==)
09:29, 19 October 2007 (hist) (diff) Talk:Nick Clegg‎ (Arson - agreed)
06:47, 19 October 2007 (hist) (diff) Nick Clegg‎ (→Education - - clarification on the "arson" - he burned some cacti)
06:42, 19 October 2007 (hist) (diff) Nick Clegg‎ (Correcting mistakes in Infobox)
06:41, 19 October 2007 (hist) (diff) Nick Clegg‎ (Restoring vandalised infobox)
06:38, 19 October 2007 (hist) (diff) Nick Clegg‎ (Removed for no good reason; very current event and unsigned user activity shows this article may soon need protection)
09:51, 18 October 2007 (hist) (diff) m Karl Urban‎ (→Career - Small fix to my own edit)
09:51, 18 October 2007 (hist) (diff) Karl Urban‎ (→Career - He was in the movie, not the book.)

16:47, 16 October 2007 (hist) (diff) User talk:MarkThomas‎ (Civil discussion)
16:32, 16 October 2007 (hist) (diff) m User talk:MarkThomas‎ (One more try)
16:32, 16 October 2007 (hist) (diff) m User talk:MarkThomas‎ (For some reason the tilda tagging did not work the first time around)
16:31, 16 October 2007 (hist) (diff) User talk:MarkThomas‎ (==Heinrich Himmler== - clarification)
16:21, 16 October 2007 (hist) (diff) User talk:Monthneedbe‎ (== Heinrich Himmler == - were you an editor previously with a different login?) (top)
15:52, 16 October 2007 (hist) (diff) User talk:Monthneedbe‎ (Hi and welcome to Wikipedia - thanks for your contribution to Heinrich Himmler)
15:48, 16 October 2007 (hist) (diff) Heinrich Himmler‎ (Reverting last change, partly because it deleted well cited and referenced material whilst claiming to do the opposite and partly because it removed good material in need of citations)
15:43, 16 October 2007 (hist) (diff) m Great Irish Famine‎ (Revert to revision 164938831 dated 2007-10-16 12:35:26 by Domer48 using popups)
15:29, 16 October 2007 (hist) (diff) m Nazism‎ (Revert to revision 164966280 dated 2007-10-16 15:23:48 by MarkThomas using popups)
15:23, 16 October 2007 (hist) (diff) m Nazism‎ (Revert to revision 164966160 dated 2007-10-16 15:23:06 by MarkThomas using popups)
15:23, 16 October 2007 (hist) (diff) m Nazism‎ (Revert to revision 164937868 dated 2007-10-16 12:27:37 by MarkThomas using popups)
15:22, 16 October 2007 (hist) (diff) King Arthur‎ (Reverting whole article to last good edit after multiple vandalistic attacks by unsigned users)
15:19, 16 October 2007 (hist) (diff) m Oliver Cromwell‎ (Revert to revision 164878572 dated 2007-10-16 03:31:40 by CzarB using popups)
12:27, 16 October 2007 (hist) (diff) Nazism‎ (Plus rv revisionist view not accepted by most contemporary historians)
12:26, 16 October 2007 (hist) (diff) Nazism‎ (Reverting whole article to last good edit after multiple vandalistic attacks by unsigned user)
12:23, 16 October 2007 (hist) (diff) Nazism‎ (RV less important point than others in the intro, but also Strasserism wasn't any kind of "socialism", it was a more radical form of Nazism emphasising continuous upheaval and anti-semitic attacks)
12:21, 16 October 2007 (hist) (diff) Strasserism‎ (It was past tense "called for" not "calls for" and also it wasn't socialism)
12:19, 16 October 2007 (hist) (diff) m Nazism‎ (RV second small typo!)
12:18, 16 October 2007 (hist) (diff) m Nazism‎ (Rv small typo)

08:55, 16 October 2007 (hist) (diff) Avebury‎ (→Theories about Avebury - - rv POV editorial)
07:42, 16 October 2007 (hist) (diff) m Nick Clegg‎ (→Future Prospects - ref tidy)
07:41, 16 October 2007 (hist) (diff) Nick Clegg‎ (→Future Prospects - - media tip Clegg to win)
07:29, 16 October 2007 (hist) (diff) Chris Huhne‎ (Current - Huhne will be in the LibDem leader election campaign)
07:28, 16 October 2007 (hist) (diff) Nick Clegg‎ (Current - Clegg will be in the LibDem leader election campaign)
07:25, 16 October 2007 (hist) (diff) Nick Clegg‎ (→Future Prospects - - Clegg vs Huhne)

15:53, 14 October 2007 (hist) (diff) m Talk:United Kingdom‎ (Comment marks debold)
15:52, 14 October 2007 (hist) (diff) Talk:United Kingdom‎ (Straw poll - A - also making comment marks on previous items, if I've got this wrong my apologies and please alter or let me know and I will change back.)
15:41, 14 October 2007 (hist) (diff) m Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2007 October 12‎ (Cat marker)
15:41, 14 October 2007 (hist) (diff) Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2007 October 12‎ (==== History of Britain ==== - Keep)
15:36, 14 October 2007 (hist) (diff) User talk:Sony-youth‎ (Question for Sarah777)

16:46, 13 October 2007 (hist) (diff) User talk:LiberalViews‎ (→Poverty in India)
14:02, 13 October 2007 (hist) (diff) Poverty in India‎ (Not POV! Referenced further down the article.)
14:00, 13 October 2007 (hist) (diff) Eczema‎ (→Alternative therapies - WP is not a medical advisor and in most cases it makes no difference whatever anyway)
13:00, 13 October 2007 (hist) (diff) Poverty in India‎ (Indian government poses as a superpower whilst the great majority of it's population lives in abject poverty)

15:21, 10 October 2007 (hist) (diff) Talk:British Isles‎ (== Merger proposal == - Oppose)

09:43, 8 October 2007 (hist) (diff) Taliban‎ (Reference for cite tag in intro from BBC news)
23:29, 6 October 2007 (hist) (diff) Re-evaluation Counseling‎ (Slight difference in emphasis to be a bit less subjective)
23:28, 6 October 2007 (hist) (diff) m Re-evaluation Counseling‎ (→External links - - link format)
23:27, 6 October 2007 (hist) (diff) Re-evaluation Counseling‎ (→External links - formatting and explaining context of NCBI link)
21:19, 6 October 2007 (hist) (diff) The Lizard‎ (Actually there has always been some debate over this and it is always difficult to be so certain about ancient names of places) (top)
07:27, 5 October 2007 (hist) (diff) Affluenza‎ ("success" is a bit subjective; Affluenza primarily about material over-consumption and desires)
06:51, 5 October 2007 (hist) (diff) Affluenza‎ (Change in emphasis; James and others define affuenza as primarily affecting the currently relatively well off and those surrounded by such people)
06:46, 5 October 2007 (hist) (diff) m Affluenza‎ (Typo: "hithertoo")
21:31, 3 October 2007 (hist) (diff) Cotswolds‎ (→Principal Settlements - - Moreton-in-Marsh)
21:30, 3 October 2007 (hist) (diff) m Cotswolds‎ (→Principal Settlements - - Broadway)
21:29, 3 October 2007 (hist) (diff) m Cotswolds‎ (Formatting)
21:28, 3 October 2007 (hist) (diff) Cotswolds‎ (Added Principal Settlements)
21:21, 3 October 2007 (hist) (diff) Ordnance Survey‎ (Bit more background on the OS)
21:10, 3 October 2007 (hist) (diff) m Cotswolds‎ (→Transport - - minor grammar and punctuation errors)
23:07, 2 October 2007 (hist) (diff) Talk:Albert Einstein‎ (→The first line (again) - - Brittanica mentions his Jewish origins in it's intro)
21:42, 2 October 2007 (hist) (diff) Walter Veltroni‎ (→Criticisms - - tidying material presumably translated from Italian; final paragraph made no sense and was alluding to multiple events in a confusing way)
21:35, 2 October 2007 (hist) (diff) Talk:Affluenza‎ (→Keep Wikipedia article - - definition of affluenza) (top)
21:28, 2 October 2007 (hist) (diff) Balti (food)‎ (Deleted obvious advert for restaurant and replaced with more objective text)

17:44, 2 October 2007 (hist) (diff) Talk:Miranda Grell‎ (==Maurice Burgess== - see also) (top)

21:34, 29 September 2007 (hist) (diff) Heartbeat (TV series)‎ (→Chronology - - removing duplication and simplifying structure)
20:16, 29 September 2007 (hist) (diff) m Heartbeat (TV series)‎ (→Chronology - small typo)
20:16, 29 September 2007 (hist) (diff) Heartbeat (TV series)‎ (→Chronology - - Apollo 11 moon landing included in recent episode)
19:42, 29 September 2007 (hist) (diff) Talk:Albert Einstein‎ (→The first line (again) - - support "German-Jewish")
19:38, 29 September 2007 (hist) (diff) Introducing The Style Council‎ (→Personnel - - Tracie Young - backing vocals) (top)
16:44, 29 September 2007 (hist) (diff) m Tom Baker‎ (→Little Britain - - Commented / commented in near proximity)
08:37, 28 September 2007 (hist) (diff) Poverty in India‎ (→Controversy over extent of poverty reduction - - contrast between acute widespread poverty and attitude of government)
07:59, 28 September 2007 (hist) (diff) Poverty in India‎ (No evidence to support this POV assertion and the reference is to a closed NY Times page that requires a password)
18:17, 27 September 2007 (hist) (diff) m Paul Weller (singer)‎ (Tidying)
18:17, 27 September 2007 (hist) (diff) Paul Weller (singer)‎ (Wasn't Wikipedian to have it directly used in the name title like that - it's a nickname that needs explaining)

16:20, 21 September 2007 (hist) (diff) United to End Racism‎ (Updating dates) (top)
10:41, 19 September 2007 (hist) (diff) m Priory of Sion‎ (I don't think so!)

21:03, 15 September 2007 (hist) (diff) George Galloway‎ (Removing commentary and reportage aimed at giving a false impression)
19:10, 13 September 2007 (hist) (diff) Talk:George Galloway‎ (Recent edits by Felix-felix)
17:24, 13 September 2007 (hist) (diff) George Galloway‎ (Well-known campaign against Oona King note)
17:21, 13 September 2007 (hist) (diff) George Galloway‎ (Removing qualifying statement that is both uncited and highly controversial and was presumably added as a POV attempt to weaken the well-known statement)
17:17, 13 September 2007 (hist) (diff) George Galloway‎ (It isn't a question of citation and POV as claimed by the previous editor - this is simply not as notable and therefore not useful for the intro)
15:45, 13 September 2007 (hist) (diff) George Galloway‎ (Second statement of Galloway's not as notable and added for some spurious attempt to neutralise the impact of his well-known statement praising Saddam)

18:09, 11 September 2007 (hist) (diff) Tom Baker‎ (Meaning in sentence)
18:08, 11 September 2007 (hist) (diff) Tom Baker‎ (Baker commented on this in the new DVD of Robot)
17:41, 11 September 2007 (hist) (diff) Margaret Thatcher‎ (There seems to be fairly general agreement elsewhere in WP not to use the C4 "fun polls" as they are quick commercial programmes with absolutely no backing from serious polling)
17:27, 11 September 2007 (hist) (diff) m Nazi Party‎ (Revert to revision 157108193 dated 2007-09-11 07:37:38 by VoABot II using popups)
17:21, 11 September 2007 (hist) (diff) Ken Livingstone‎ (No evidence to support this assertion. A fairly intense web search on the topic revealed no such comment from the Met)
10:19, 11 September 2007 (hist) (diff) Yawn‎ (Recent research on empathic nature of yawning)
09:57, 11 September 2007 (hist) (diff) The Lord of the Rings‎ (No, it was ninetieth not ninety-second)
09:49, 11 September 2007 (hist) (diff) The Lord of the Rings‎ (Fairly sure he said "Great War"; sadly lost my copy of this on tape to double-check, it was a most interesting discussion about JRRT!)
09:35, 11 September 2007 (hist) (diff) m United Kingdom‎ (Revert to revision 157039399 dated 2007-09-10 23:51:01 by The Red Hat of Pat Ferrick using popups)
18:02, 10 September 2007 (hist) (diff) Talk:Nazism‎ (====Support====)
17:02, 10 September 2007 (hist) (diff) Yawn‎ (An unneccesary qualification; since the snippet only elucidates their "beliefs" and they have never been subjected to "scientific" scrutiny)
16:51, 10 September 2007 (hist) (diff) Talk:United Kingdom‎ (Wikipedia is for intelligent people too)
16:48, 10 September 2007 (hist) (diff) United Kingdom‎ (It's been "country" for a long time and these seems to be generally accepted; also it is!)
09:38, 7 September 2007 (hist) (diff) m Boris Johnson‎ (Attempting to tidy this rather confused ref)
08:23, 7 September 2007 (hist) (diff) Talk:British Isles‎ (===ArbCom violation===)
17:46, 6 September 2007 (hist) (diff) m Talk:British Isles‎ (Correcting thread title to the one used by it's instigator)
17:37, 6 September 2007 (hist) (diff) m Talk:British Isles‎ (Sarah777 - please provide an example of an "anti-Irish" statement by Sony-youth)
17:20, 6 September 2007 (hist) (diff) Talk:Society for the Propagation of the Gospel in Foreign Parts‎ (== Henry Phillpotts ==) (top)
17:18, 6 September 2007 (hist) (diff) Society for the Propagation of the Gospel in Foreign Parts‎ (No evidence to support this assertion. Bessant says the funds were paid directly to the then Bishop of Exeter)
17:15, 6 September 2007 (hist) (diff) Society for the Propagation of the Gospel in Foreign Parts‎ (Removing editorialising; not only really quite wierd in attempting to justify slave-owner policies but also plain wrong)
14:00, 6 September 2007 (hist) (diff) Talk:British Isles‎ (===ArbCom violation=== - agree that guidance is needed as to what it means in practice)
17:49, 5 September 2007 (hist) (diff) George Galloway‎ (This is after all one of the things he is best known for - along with pretending to be a cat on Big Brother!)
16:51, 5 September 2007 (hist) (diff) Ted Hughes‎ (RV nonsensical removal of key part of para by vandalistic IP-number editor)
13:16, 3 September 2007 (hist) (diff) User talk:Guy Hatton‎ (==Taking a break==) (top)
11:32, 3 September 2007 (hist) (diff) User talk:Guy Hatton‎ (==LiberalViews==)
10:21, 3 September 2007 (hist) (diff) User talk:Guy Hatton‎ (==LiberalViews==)
09:19, 3 September 2007 (hist) (diff) A Touch of Frost (TV series)‎ (General tidying in the Setting section)
08:45, 3 September 2007 (hist) (diff) m George Galloway‎ (Sentence flow)
08:41, 3 September 2007 (hist) (diff) User talk:Guy Hatton‎ (==LiberalViews==)
08:38, 3 September 2007 (hist) (diff) George Galloway‎ (Correcting intro section for most notable statement and lower down in the article; this is not POV, it is the most notable thing Galloway has ever done and was broadcast worldwide; see talk page)
08:29, 3 September 2007 (hist) (diff) Talk:George Galloway‎ (==Sir, I salute your courage== - not POV as Guy Hatton alleged)
08:23, 3 September 2007 (hist) (diff) Talk:Oliver Cromwell‎ (Civil war sources often disputed as to historicity, objectivity and propaganda-versus-fact)

09:43, 2 September 2007 (hist) (diff) George Galloway‎ (It isn't enough to just declare this very notable statement POV when deleting it - see talk page)
09:31, 2 September 2007 (hist) (diff) Talk:George Galloway‎ (==Sir, I salute your courage==)
18:35, 31 August 2007 (hist) (diff) m Haha‎ (Tidying)
18:35, 31 August 2007 (hist) (diff) m Haha‎ (Correcting vandalism)
18:34, 31 August 2007 (hist) (diff) m Laughter‎ (Correcting vandalism)
18:29, 31 August 2007 (hist) (diff) Talk:Amanda Platell‎ (==Private Eye story on this Wikipedia article==)
18:21, 31 August 2007 (hist) (diff) George Galloway‎ (Accurate wording)
11:29, 31 August 2007 (hist) (diff) Talk:IG Group‎ (critical stories about IG)
16:34, 30 August 2007 (hist) (diff) Taliban‎ (Restoring to last good edit; sorry, formatting problems in previous attempt)
16:33, 30 August 2007 (hist) (diff) Taliban‎ (Restoring intro; total lack of comment given in last few edits as to why this was removed)

15:45, 28 August 2007 (hist) (diff) Oliver Cromwell‎ (Since "brutality" is in itself an extremely loaded term, I think the "alleged" modification is helpful in a WP context)

19:06, 27 August 2007 (hist) (diff) User talk:LiberalViews‎ (== Judge John Deed ==)
18:48, 27 August 2007 (hist) (diff) User talk:LiberalViews‎ (→Judge John Deed - - novice query for Brad!)
17:52, 27 August 2007 (hist) (diff) User talk:HalJor‎ (→BDSM - - psych edits)
17:51, 27 August 2007 (hist) (diff) User talk:LiberalViews‎ (== Judge John Deed ==)
17:46, 27 August 2007 (hist) (diff) m Taliban‎ (Dab tidy)
17:45, 27 August 2007 (hist) (diff) m Taliban‎ (Dab: Federally Administered Tribal Areas (FATA))
17:44, 27 August 2007 (hist) (diff) Taliban‎ (Not just West media who use this spelling)
15:11, 27 August 2007 (hist) (diff) Domination and submission (BDSM)‎ (Sourced psychological viewpoint)
15:10, 27 August 2007 (hist) (diff) m Domination and submission (BDSM)‎ (→Myths - - no need for "however")
15:09, 27 August 2007 (hist) (diff) Domination and submission (BDSM)‎ (→Myths - Utterly false - the evidence is the other way!)
15:07, 27 August 2007 (hist) (diff) User talk:HalJor‎ (==BDSM==)
15:05, 27 August 2007 (hist) (diff) m BDSM‎ (Dab:Paraphilia)
15:04, 27 August 2007 (hist) (diff) m Master/slave (BDSM)‎ (Dab:Paraphilia)
15:03, 27 August 2007 (hist) (diff) Master/slave (BDSM)‎ (More accurate quote from article)
15:03, 27 August 2007 (hist) (diff) BDSM‎ (OK, more accurate quote from the article)
14:10, 27 August 2007 (hist) (diff) Master/slave (BDSM)‎ (Psychological causes of BDSM behaviour)
14:06, 27 August 2007 (hist) (diff) Taliban‎ (They are not small and the media call them Taliban - really they are of Pakistani origin)
13:57, 27 August 2007 (hist) (diff) George Galloway‎ (I thought this was what Galloway was best known for)
13:54, 27 August 2007 (hist) (diff) BDSM‎ (Psychological causes of BDSM behaviour)
13:39, 27 August 2007 (hist) (diff) m Judge John Deed‎ (→Critical reaction - correcting my spelling)
13:39, 27 August 2007 (hist) (diff) Judge John Deed‎ (→Critical reaction - Lisftield / Sarin)
13:37, 27 August 2007 (hist) (diff) Judge John Deed‎ (→Critical reaction - - Tim Listfield character echoes Arun Sarin)
12:41, 27 August 2007 (hist) (diff) Wings (band)‎ (→Legacy - - satire)
12:36, 27 August 2007 (hist) (diff) m Alan Partridge‎ (Bracket)
12:36, 27 August 2007 (hist) (diff) Alan Partridge‎ (Fave album band on the run)
12:15, 27 August 2007 (hist) (diff) Talk:History of the British Isles‎ (Merger proposal - →Opposed)
11:51, 27 August 2007 (hist) (diff) Kurt Jackson‎ (Slight elucidation on themes of his pictures)
11:51, 27 August 2007 (hist) (diff) m Kurt Jackson‎ (Comma in wrong place)
11:48, 27 August 2007 (hist) (diff) Kurt Jackson‎ (Tidying references)
11:47, 27 August 2007 (hist) (diff) Kurt Jackson‎ (Tidying references)
11:46, 27 August 2007 (hist) (diff) m Kurt Jackson‎ (References section)
11:45, 27 August 2007 (hist) (diff) Kurt Jackson‎ (Elaboration on Jackson's style)
10:34, 27 August 2007 (hist) (diff) Laughter‎ (True but not very Wikipedian or helpful!)
22:40, 26 August 2007 (hist) (diff) Marcus Didius Falco‎ (→Prominent acquaintances - Maia and Petro)
19:52, 26 August 2007 (hist) (diff) m Laughter‎ (Dab: Re-evaluation Counseling)
19:51, 26 August 2007 (hist) (diff) Tears‎ (Useful addition removed by an unsigned user for no good reason)
19:42, 26 August 2007 (hist) (diff) The Daily Telegraph‎ (Links between Daily Telegraph and security services)
18:20, 26 August 2007 (hist) (diff) John Coltrane‎ (→Classic Quartet period (1960–1965) - Seems fair to bring Tyner in; the famous track is at least partly him)
18:12, 26 August 2007 (hist) (diff) m Edward Elgar‎ (→Later years - Dab: Elgar (film))

12:20, 10 August 2007 (hist) (diff) Talk:Great Irish Famine‎ (Google searches)
etc (no edits from LiberalViews between November 2006 and 26 August 2007)

My conclusion is obvious. The account was created while MarkThomas was blocked, and instantly started editing the Co-counselling article, which MarkThomas is a frequent contributor to. There's other common articles such as Re-evaluation Counseling, George Galloway and Great Irish Famine, where the accounts share the same views, and also attack the same editors and make the same claims of POV factions. The accounts never edit at the same time, because one person is controlling them - MarkThomas. One Night In Hackney₃₀₃ 17:21, 9 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I added Sarah Williams (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · page moves · block user · block log) per Wikipedia:Requests_for_checkuser/Case/MarkThomas. -- Jreferee t/c 00:56, 10 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Comments

I don't really understand most of this, does it mean I am supposed to be the same person as whoever Mark Thomas is? That's silly - I don't even know him, although we have spoken on Wikipedia. One thing to mention is that One Night In Hackney has stated on his talk page that he is leaving Wikipedia and was also having a row with Mark Thomas on Rockpocket's talk page recently about my conduct, which whilst I am sure wasn't perfect, was I feel somewhat inflamed by the behaviour of Vintagekits, who is also under considerable discussion to be permanently blocked. Vintagekits and One Night in Hackney are discussing their collaboration on the talk page of One Night in Hackney, so maybe the whole thing is some sort of got-up activity by them?

Pretty awful really, all that happened as a new user is I had a chat with Mark Thomas because I agreed with some of his posts and he suggested I look at some articles. This appears also to be what many other editors, including Domer48 mentioned above do. All the editors mentioned above hold extreme-Republican Irish views and attempt to control Wikipedia articles in those areas, something that should be against Wikipedia policies. An absolute scandal really. LiberalViews 18:21, 9 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

You are flat out lying here. No such discussion has taken place. Don't forget, administrators can not only see your existing list of contributions (which any user can see), they can also see a list of any and all contributions that you have made that were deleted. So either, the two of you have collaborated off of Wikipedia, making you a meat puppet, or the two accounts are controlled by the same person, which makes you a sock puppet. SirFozzie 21:18, 9 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Where did this discussion take place? You've never posted to his talk page, and he's never posted to yours. One Night In Hackney₃₀₃ 18:33, 9 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I'm puzzled - I thought you'd left - but here you are! LiberalViews 18:39, 9 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Would you like to answer the question? One Night In Hackney₃₀₃ 18:39, 9 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I don't find you to be worth debating with. For example, I have just been checking carefully and there are numerous falsehoods above in your text. It really doesn't matter to me what you do or say and frankly the rubbish that occurs here and the devious manipulations you engage in are representative of how poorly some people behave around here. End of discussion as far as I'm concerned - I'm still curious though, have you really left, or are you back already!! LiberalViews 18:46, 9 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I can not say that I’m surprised. The comments are all the same, and while I’m under the conditions of the Arbitration, I will remain measured in my comments. We will no doubt have a great deal of accusation and insinuation which will be devoid of diff’s to substantiate the assortment of claims. I consider the above comment by LiberalViews to be both a personal attack and an assumption of bad faith. I will post a warning to that effect after this post, as this is not the first, nor will it be the last. --Domer48 18:53, 9 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Anyone in any doubt about Domer48 as a trustworthy and competent Wikipedian can simply browse archive 10 [4] of the talk page on Great Irish Famine to see him at work and see what other editors think of his fascinating conduct. Almost worth a separate study in it's own right! LiberalViews 19:07, 9 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Yes I've had a great deal of contact with MarkThomas, "We will no doubt have a great deal of accusation and insinuation which will be devoid of diff’s to substantiate the assortment of claims. Now are you going to answer ONIH's question, because I can not see any conversation? --Domer48 19:16, 9 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I am also curious about something; what brought Domer48 to this article? It isn't mentioned anywhere else but in a (deleted) entry on my talk page; are you stalking me Domer48 or are you in private co-ordination with One Night in Hackney? Which is it please? LiberalViews 19:13, 9 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

You did. Or I should say you and User:MarkThomas. who also deletes unfavourable comments from their talk page? So where was this conversation you two were supposed to be having? Are you not going to address the evidence presented? --Domer48 19:33, 9 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Usually what happens and the way I do it is I am having discourse with another editor I put there talk page on my watchlist nothing mysterious or conspiritorial about Domer seeing this page and then adding comments. Trying to deflect your own position by using the tired old conspiracy by republicans is laughable answer ONIH question and stop throwing silly accusations around. BigDunc 19:43, 9 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I'd also like to point out that LiberalViews has been used as a "bad hand" (although some would say "worse hand") deliberately causing trouble in two areas that have both seen recent ArbCom cases. Great Irish Famine obviously comes under Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Great Irish Famine, and Martin Meehan (Irish republican) (for analysis of edits to that article and talk page see here) comes under Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/The Troubles. I request that any action taken as a result of this takes into account the sensitive nature of user conduct and article editing in the areas covered by the ArbCom cases, and the attempts to inflame the situation by LiberalViews. One Night In Hackney₃₀₃ 20:24, 9 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I've just seen Wikipedia:Requests for checkuser/Case/MarkThomas this also.--Vintagekits 21:47, 9 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Comments

I concur with assessment. --Domer48 20:17, 9 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

There is a lot of evidence that supports One Night In Hackney's suggestions that MarkThomas and LiberalViews are the same account. Especially interesting is this diff by MarkThomas, on how easy it would be to fool checkuser [5]. Needless to say, the evidence is also circumstantial, but I feel under WP:DUCK that it's a good match. SirFozzie 21:12, 9 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Concur. Considering MarkThomas's statement regarding check user avoidance strategies, one must make the analysis based on edits. An inconclusive check user would mean very little. It looks extremely convincing. I suggest, in the spirit of recent discussions, that an "uninvolved" admin review the evidence and conclude it. Rockpocket 21:48, 9 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The evidence looks pretty damning to me here. Furthermore, comments from Mark titled, "Checkuser - good luck with that" tend to indicate forethought which really, really doesn't look good under the circumstances here - Alison ^❤ 21:34, 9 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Quack quack. I have applied the banhammer, Mark Thomas has a history of block evasion and even if it weren't him (which I don't think anyone other than Mary Poppins would believe) the last thing we need is yet another tendentious editor on these subjects. Guy (Help!) 21:39, 9 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Oh, and as a followup, User:Monthneedbe‎, cited above in the evidence, turned out to be a sock of RMS. Who'd a thunk? :) - Alison ^❤ 22:27, 9 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Using Sarah Williams to evade block - On 19 September 2006, Sarah Williams added to the George Galloway "in which he praised Saddam on live TV"[6] On 25 September 2006, MarkThomas added to the George Galloway article that Galloway praised Saddam on live TV[7] and received a 3RR block. MarkThomas subsequently was confirmed to be Sarah Williams and was using Sarah Williams to evade his block to edit the George Galloway article.[8]. -- Jreferee t/c 03:13, 10 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Using 86.135.32.117 to evade block - MarkThomas had multiple edits to the William Connolley article where he removed the statement "Connolley holds a Bachelor of Arts in mathematics and D. Phil. from ...", the last time being 09:02, 8 November 2006.[9] MarkThomas was blocked from editing two hours later at 11:54, 8 November 2006 through 00:55, 9 November 2006. The first edit by 86.135.32.117 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · page moves · block user · block log) was five hours after MarkThomas was blocked, at 17:35, 8 November 2006. 86.135.32.117's very first edit was to the William Connolley article, in which 86.135.32.117 removed from the article "Connolley holds a Bachelor of Arts in mathematics and D. Phil. from ..."[10] This was while MarkThomas was blocked. I went through all the article diffs after 86.135.32.117 removed the material and no one other than 86.135.32.117 and MarkThomas have deleted the Bachelor of Arts statement from the article. 86.135.32.117 made three edits - all to the William Connolley article and all while MarkThomas was blocked. -- Jreferee t/c 03:13, 10 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Using LiberalViews to evade block and double team User talk:Rockpocket

Articles MarkThomas and LiberalViews both have edited: Avebury, Co-counselling, George Galloway, Great Irish Famine‎, Laughter, Maurice Burgess, Re-evaluation Counseling, User talk:Rockpocket, User talk:SirFozzie, Tears, Tom Baker‎ -- Jreferee t/c 04:47, 10 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Edit summaries and posts for the George Galloway‎ article. MarkThomas edit summary "This is the very best known thing about George Galloway. How can it possibly not be in this para? The arguments about repetition are just specious attempts to whitewash him." for the posted text "in which he heaped personal praise on Saddam Hussein."[11] LiberalViews edit summary "I thought this was what Galloway was best known for" and the posted text "in which he outspokenly praised Hussein in glowing terms."[12] MarkThomas edit summary "This is after all one of the things he is best known for - along with pretending to be a cat on Big Brother!" for the posted text "during one of which he was filmed praising Saddam with the words "Sir, I salute your courage, your strength, your indefatigability"[13]. -- Jreferee t/c 04:47, 10 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]
LiberalViews edited the Dianetics article with the edit summary "Mention of Harvey Jackins as well-known squirrel group founder"[14] and added the text "A well-known example was Harvey Jackins, founder of Re-evaluation Counselling, originally a sort of discrete reworking of Dianetics, which L Ron Hubbard later had declared suppressive to Scientology."[15] This was while MarkThomas was blocked. MarkThomas had previously edited Harvey Jackins 43 times and subequently edited Harvey Jackins.
LiberalViews added Harvey Jackins to the Human Potential Movement article[[16] and MarkThomas had edited the Harvey Jackins article 79 times.[17]-- Jreferee t/c 04:47, 10 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]
LiberalViews edited Emotion with the edit summary "Re-evaluation counseling view on emotion"[18] and posting "painful emotion is best relieved via the well-known (and sometimes automatic) discharge processes."[19] MarkThomas edited the Re-evaluation Counseling artricle using the edit summary "RC sees it as an attempt to encourage discharge of painful emotion."[20] -- Jreferee t/c 04:47, 10 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]
LiberalViews edited Heartbeat (TV series)‎[21] and MarkThomas updated the Mary Woodvine‎ article with her Heartbeat appearance.[22] -- Jreferee t/c 04:47, 10 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]
LiberalViews opposed a merge of History of the British Isles [23]. MarkThomas opposed a merge of British Isles [24]. -- Jreferee t/c 04:47, 10 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]
LiberalViews added Re-evaluation Counselling as a "see also" to the Human Potential Movement article[25] MarkThomas has edited the Re-evaluation Counseling article 101 times, Sarah Williams edited the Re-evaluation Counseling article 10 times, and LiberalViews edited the Re-evaluation Counseling article 4 times. -- Jreferee t/c 04:47, 10 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]
LiberalViews removed a category from the Karl Marx‎ article with the edit summary "Whatever else he was, one thing Marx wasn't was a Marxist! Marxists are followers of Marx."[26] MarkThomas removed a category from the George Galloway article with the edit summary Galloway isn't anti-war and he's a stalinist marxist.[27] -- Jreferee t/c 04:47, 10 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]
LiberalViews edited the Perspiration article with the edit summary "(Re-evaluation counseling view on sweating; psychotherapy." MarkThomas edited Co-counselling with the edit summary "Clarifying why RC has guidelines; also it's not screaming, it's warm perspiration." MarkThomas edited George Galloway with the edit summary "Just the usual truth about Galloway - stand by for outraged censors, their keyboards are turning wet with perspiration. :-) Over to you Sandy." -- Jreferee t/c 04:47, 10 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Conclusions

There may be more socks. Using Wikistats, check the contributors to the Re-evaluation Counseling article to see who posted when some of the socks were blocked. -- Jreferee t/c 04:19, 10 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]
MarkThomas posted this at Wikipedia:Suspected sock puppets/TharkunColl, which may be reason to review that SSP matter again. -- Jreferee t/c 04:42, 10 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Named accounts blocked by other admins. I tagged them. Sarah William confirmed from RFCU. — Rlevse • Talk • 16:23, 10 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]