Wikipedia talk:Articles for improvement/Archive 16

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TAFI 5 per week

@Northamerica1000: I was wondering how the TAFI 5 per week will work regarding scheduling. Will we host all five articles for the duration of one week, or will we host one article a day for each week day (Mon-Fri)? Thanks, --Bananasoldier (talk) 15:52, 10 May 2015 (UTC)

I figured it would be all five at a time for the entire week, as in that they're all posted at once. This allows people time to get to articles that may interest them. North America¹⁰⁰⁰ 21:17, 10 May 2015 (UTC)

• This weeks talk page notification is showing a bunch of empty links. --NickPenguin_(contribs) 01:43, 18 May 2015 (UTC)

Bit confused, I saw two pictures on {{TAFI weekly selections notice}}, so I guessed the multiple articles began, so I went to {{TAFI five weekly selections notice}} and confirmed the multiple selections and proceeded to use it for the message this week. However clearly there are 3 empty red links.... ///EuroCarGT 03:48, 18 May 2015 (UTC)

EuroCarGT Just a heads up that Week 22 will have six entries. All you have to do is modify the template before sending, adding in the coding for the sixth entry, then send as a substitution. Wait a day or so (in the event mailing delays occur), then revert back to the five entry format. North America¹⁰⁰⁰ 09:00, 18 May 2015 (UTC)

Ah, got it. Thanks for informing me. ///EuroCarGT 21:59, 19 May 2015 (UTC)

Template only shows 1 big link

Hi guys! If you take a look at this template, it only shows "Deep frying" as a big link, and it's missing "Polar ice cap". How can we fix this to accommodate for multiple links? Thanks, --Bananasoldier (talk) 01:38, 20 May 2015 (UTC)

Previous template with the error

 Fixed. North America¹⁰⁰⁰ 10:30, 21 May 2015 (UTC)

Promoting TAFI

I think our project is definitely gaining momentum. Here are two ideas to help promote our WikiProject:

1) We haven't had an article with The Signpost in a long time. Maybe we can ask them to write about us again?

2) We can put tiny subst templates in our signatures that link to our project page, the current article for improvement, or a page that redirects to the current article for improvement. My bad; it turns out you can't put templates in your signature.

3) Should we work with other WikiProjects that deal with new editors and encourage new editors to participate in TAFI?

Let me know what you think! Bananasoldier (talk) 21:34, 2 May 2015 (UTC)

I think that attempting to get new editors to learn about TAFI could positively benefit the project. It would help out users who want a more structured Wikipedia experience by allowing them to learn to work collaboratively with other editors. Winner 42 Talk to me! 15:50, 4 May 2015 (UTC)

4) Also, we can work hard to earn more "collaborative DYKs" and link to TAFI on the DYK display (in parenthesis after the hook) like we did with the other DYKs we earned. I think that helped us gain attention because more people click on links on the front page in general (of course) and because editors probably wondered why the DYK hook had a little "T-A-F-I" link. Because the front page of Wikipedia is read by both editors and visitors (readers), we'll want to add on our project page instructions on how to edit Wikipedia/an explanation of what TAFI is from an outsider (newcomer) perspective. To accommodate for newcomers, we should also strive for a Teahouse standard of hospitality & helpfulness. --Bananasoldier (talk) 04:02, 6 May 2015 (UTC)

Right now I think our main page is pretty close to meeting these goals of catering to newbies. However, Good Article and Featured Article are still jargon terms, and a reexplanation would be necessary for newbies. Also we'd have to emphasize the "being bold" and "that's right; you too can edit Wikipedia!" because we have to assume newcomers aren't aware of the fact that Wikipedia is built by a community of people. --Bananasoldier (talk) 04:12, 6 May 2015 (UTC)

These sound like good ideas, if someone is willing to do the hard work to make them work. We have tried these sort of things in the past; I think the main reason we've stopped or slowed down is the WP:NOTCOMPULSORY nature of any work on wikipedia. Ages ago we used to come up with social media messages that the WMF posted for us, to encourage their readers to edit the TAFI articles – but that was back when we were on the main page. - Evad37 [talk] 04:12, 6 May 2015 (UTC)

We could put a link to TAFI in the Main Page of the "...Recently improved content" div. Possibly, beside the "Nominate an article", put in "Improve an article" or some other good name. Qwertyxp2000 (talk) 22:00, 24 May 2015 (UTC)

Choose the TAFI article for Week 24 of 2015

The following discussion is closed and will soon be archived.

---

• 10 randomly-chosen numbers, generated using this page from Random.org. North America¹⁰⁰⁰ 09:05, 18 May 2015 (UTC)

58 32 193 80 282 66 192 240 111 30

Articles

Per the random numbers above, relative to numerically-listed entries at the Holding area

• Sport
• Venice International Film Festival
• Global cuisine
• Ballet
• Caramel
• Nature reserve
• Rural area
• Arctic
• Candy apple
• Social change

Notifications

Pinging –

@Buster7, Northamerica1000, NickPenguin, Whiteghost.ink, Ypnypn, Madalibi, Moswento, Kvng, Coin945, Mark Miller, Evad37, Buffbills7701, GiantSnowman, EMachine03, EuroCarGT, CSJJ104, Iselilja, Khamar North America¹⁰⁰⁰ 09:10, 18 May 2015 (UTC)

@Finnusertop, Tomásdearg92, CSJJ104, Davey2010, Stuartyeates, Gongshow, Jim Carter - Public, SL93, MrWooHoo, The boss 1998, Qwertyxp2000, Bananasoldier, Rcsprinter123, Epicgenius North America¹⁰⁰⁰ 09:11, 18 May 2015 (UTC)

Messaging – Users on the Notifications list have been messaged about this week's vote. North America¹⁰⁰⁰ 09:20, 18 May 2015 (UTC)

Votes and comments

• Caramel, Arctic, Candy apple, Sport, Ballet. Qwertyxp2000 (talk) 10:59, 18 May 2015 (UTC)
• Sport, Rural area, Arctic, Venice International Film Festival, Ballet Winner 42 Talk to me! 12:53, 18 May 2015 (UTC)
• Arctic, Caramel, Venice International Film Festival, Global cuisines, Social change -- Chamith (talk) 13:58, 18 May 2015 (UTC)
• Sport, Caramel, Arctic, Venice International Film Festival, Nature reserve. –Davey2010^Talk 14:32, 18 May 2015 (UTC)
• Caramel, Nature reserve, Global cuisine, Candy apple, Social change. Rcsprinter₁₂₃ (shout) @ 16:46, 18 May 2015 (UTC)
• Caramel, Nature reserve, Global cuisine, Arctic, Candy apple. GiantSnowman 17:25, 18 May 2015 (UTC)
• Arctic, Global cuisine, Ballet, Caramel, Venice International Film Festival. --NickPenguin_(contribs) 20:34, 18 May 2015 (UTC)
• Caramel, Sport, Arctic, Ballet, Candy apple. --AmaryllisGardener ^talk 02:19, 19 May 2015 (UTC)
• Global cuisine, Social change, Nature reserve, Rural area, Caramel. North America¹⁰⁰⁰ 11:08, 19 May 2015 (UTC)
• Caramel, Candy apple, Global cuisine, Social change, Rural area --Bananasoldier (talk) 00:19, 20 May 2015 (UTC)
• Comment: @Northamerica1000: Do you manually count out our votes? If so, it must be a lot of work! Thank you for that. --Bananasoldier (talk) 01:45, 20 May 2015 (UTC)

• Yes, the tally is done manually. It actually isn't that difficult, but takes a few minutes to perform. North America¹⁰⁰⁰ 10:25, 21 May 2015 (UTC)

• Candy apple, Caramel, Global cuisine, Arctic, and Sport. --Brandon (MrWooHoo) • Talk to Brandon! 02:00, 20 May 2015 (UTC)
• Sport, Arctic, Candy apple, Caramel, Rural area. User:DoctorGiants (talk) 05:58, 24 May 2015 (UTC)

Results (week 24)

Article	Points	Action
Sport	22	Scheduled
Venice International Film Festival	8	Remains in holding area
Global cuisine	22	Scheduled
Ballet	8	Remains in holding area
Caramel	42	Scheduled
Nature reserve	12	Remains in holding area
Rural area	8	Remains in holding area
Arctic	31	Scheduled
Candy apple	20	Scheduled
Social change	8	Remains in holding area

– North America¹⁰⁰⁰ 06:03, 25 May 2015 (UTC)

Deep frying to GA

Hi TAFI! Thanks to everyone who has participated in improving Deep frying so far. Winner 42 and I have been talking about the possibility of TAFI bringing Deep frying to GA status. We still have some work to do, such as summarizing deep fried dishes from around the world. I just wanted to say please feel free to jump in and help this goal become a reality! --Bananasoldier (talk) 04:03, 23 May 2015 (UTC)

Why does no one use the WP:TAFIFC? Qwertyxp2000 (talk) 08:38, 24 May 2015 (UTC)

By the way, I helped by giving hope for expansion of what foods could be fried. Qwertyxp2000 (talk) 08:39, 24 May 2015 (UTC)

Thank you for that, @Qwertyxp2000:! I've also gone ahead with your advice and added Deep frying to Further collab now that its week is over. --Bananasoldier (talk) 17:53, 25 May 2015 (UTC)

Editing the Accomplishments Table

Qwertyxp2000 suggested that I update the accomplishments table, which I've just done (I've done it a few times before). I don't have the time to do it all the time. However, although editing the table looks intimidating, it's really just a matter of filling in blank fields. The current setup uses fairly descriptive field names and you can find the information in a few places:

• Revision history: Your first stop, it's pretty easy to spot the beginning and end of the TAFI period.
  • Comparing these two revisions gives you the amount of edits and unique editors.
  • Go back to the revision history and tally up Reverts, IP and bot edits.
  • check the edits before the start and end of TAFI and you have the beginning and ending size information.

• Old revisions of the article: You access them from the revision history by clicking on the date for the edit you are interested in. Open the edit before Theo's little bot adds the TAFI tag. Copy the number that forms the last part of the URL. This goes in the "oldid" field of the table. Then do the same for the last edit before a user removes the TAFI tag at the end of the week. This one goes in the "newid" field. You can also use the dyk tool to get the prose count. (More on that in a minute)

• Article talk page: you can get the class of the article at the start and end of the week with some detective work on the talk page's revision history.

"olddate" and "newdate" are entered manually.

The link below the bottom of the table contains the exact details if you are lost. Wikipedia:Today's_articles_for_improvement/Accomplishments/row

Prose counts: The ones I did at the end of last year were done by copying the main body into MS word and manually stripping tables, titles, etc. however the Did you know word counter is much much better. It adds a link to your left hand toolbar that provides an instant character count. You have to install it by adding a line of code to a special page that is easily found by following a link on the DYKcheck page.

Making a week on the table breaks down naturally into three different stages: adding a new line with article and week; Adding edit numbers, ID numbers of old pages and prose/ size counts; and adding the class and date information. I think that it need not be onerous if multiple editors check it as part of their routine. Some parts can be added before the week has ended, as Ive done with the current articles. TBP25 (talk) 11:19, 18 May 2015 (UTC)

@TBP25: Okay, and so copy all main body prose, all of the table contents, and all of the titles within the article? Then find out the amount of bytes? Is this how you would find out the amount of prose bytes? Qwertyxp2000 (talk) 11:21, 19 May 2015 (UTC)

• The Size in bytes is for the whole article including pictures etc. You can find it on every line on the article's edit history page. Apologies if I was unclear before.
• The prose count can be done manually but I strongly recommend using the automated counter (Did you know check) because it will save you time and be more accurate. (n.b - the prosecount is in characters, not bytes.)

TBP25 (talk) 05:21, 27 May 2015 (UTC)

TAFI report -- Polar ice cap and Deep frying [Week 21]

A close-up view of kaassoufflés cooking in a deep fryer

Mars's north polar region with ice cap, composite of Viking 1 orbiter images (Courtesy NASA/JPL-Caltech)

Hello, everyone! Week 21 saw two articles edited at once because we had a voting tie. This change appeared at the perfect time to ease TAFI into editing many articles simultaneously as we do now (at 5 per week).

Polar ice cap had some polishing done with pictures and copyediting. Of particular notice is the new addition of the Polar_ice_cap#Pluto section, which is a nice update because the recent discoveries were reported/published just a month ago. Thank you @Northamerica1000, ChamithN, Davey2010, Winner 42, Presidentman, and Jim.henderson:!

Deep frying saw major growth, perhaps in following the footsteps of its TAFI cousin, Stir frying (start class to B-class via TAFI). It started off at 8 kilobytes and is now 43 kilobytes. Of special notice are the expansion to practically every section (History, especially), more pictures, better organization, and entirely new sections (Tools, Dishes and foods subsections, Health effects, Environmental effects, Culture). We approached the possibility nomination for GA, but did not feel ready for it within the 7 day time frame. However, it's listed on the Further collaborations page now and we plan on continuing the pursuit. Thank you @CryOCed, Northamerica1000, Qwertyxp2000, Takeaway, Davey2010, Winner 42, and War wizard90:@Presidentman, DemocraticLuntz, EricEnfermero, Esquivalience, Topbanana, and Esquivalience:!

That's about it! Thanks again for participating! --Bananasoldier (talk) 07:04, 30 May 2015 (UTC)

• Thanks for compiling the report, Bananasoldier, and thanks to all editors who helped improve the articles. North America¹⁰⁰⁰ 07:12, 30 May 2015 (UTC)
  • @Northamerica1000: I noticed that TAFI members have written relevant articles to the Week 21's Deep frying around the same time, such as Abel Gonzales and Deep-fried butter. I'm not sure if the articles were inspired by Deep frying or just coincidence, but regardless it's a lovely bonus! --Bananasoldier (talk) 07:19, 30 May 2015 (UTC)

• Thank you for the nice report about this week! By the way, we forgot to do Week 5-20's results. By the way, I gave inspiration to expansion of a section. Qwertyxp2000 (talk) 07:27, 30 May 2015 (UTC)

• Wow thanks for the report - I'm impressed :), and thanks to those that've helped improve these and other other articles :), –Davey2010^Talk 14:20, 30 May 2015 (UTC)

Choose the TAFI article for Week 25 of 2015

The following discussion is closed and will soon be archived.

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• 10 randomly-chosen numbers, generated using this page from Random.org. North America¹⁰⁰⁰ 06:27, 25 May 2015 (UTC)

183 14 80 179 95 73 149 205 249 44

Articles

Per the random numbers above, relative to numerically-listed entries at the Holding area.

• Voice acting
• Little John
• Performing arts
• History of perfume
• Erik the Red
• Victoria, Seychelles
• Amazonas Region
• Sin
• Nightlife
• Aries (astrology)

Notifications

• Pinging –

@Buster7, Northamerica1000, NickPenguin, Whiteghost.ink, Ypnypn, Madalibi, Moswento, Kvng, Coin945, Mark Miller, Evad37, Buffbills7701, GiantSnowman, EMachine03, EuroCarGT, CSJJ104, Iselilja, Khamar North America¹⁰⁰⁰ 06:38, 25 May 2015 (UTC)

@Finnusertop, Tomásdearg92, CSJJ104, Davey2010, Stuartyeates, Gongshow, Jim Carter - Public, SL93, MrWooHoo, The boss 1998, Qwertyxp2000, Bananasoldier, Rcsprinter123, Epicgenius North America¹⁰⁰⁰ 06:38, 25 May 2015 (UTC)

• Messaging – Users on the Notifications list have been messaged about this week's vote. North America¹⁰⁰⁰ 06:45, 25 May 2015 (UTC)

Votes and comments

• Hey! Double nominations! Why is there two of the same article?! Qwertyxp2000 (talk) 06:40, 25 May 2015 (UTC)

Copy/paste typo occurred. This has been  Fixed. North America¹⁰⁰⁰ 06:43, 25 May 2015 (UTC)

• My preference: Nightlife, History of perfume, Sin, Performing arts, Voice acting --Human3015 Say Hey!! • 07:04, 25 May 2015 (UTC)
• Victoria, Seychelles, Aries (astrology), Nightlife, Voice acting, Little John. Rcsprinter¹²³ (post) @ 08:17, 25 May 2015 (UTC)
• Nightlife, Victoria, Seychelles, Amazonas Region, Performing arts, Sin. North America¹⁰⁰⁰ 13:51, 25 May 2015 (UTC)
• Erik the Red, Performing arts, Little John, Amazonas Region, Sin. GiantSnowman 16:02, 25 May 2015 (UTC)
• Nightlife, Amazonas Region, Victoria, Seychelles, Performing arts, Aries, –Davey2010^Talk 17:36, 25 May 2015 (UTC)
• Erik the Red, History of perfume, Nightlife, Little John, Voice acting. --NickPenguin_(contribs) 23:09, 25 May 2015 (UTC)
• Aries (astrology), Victoria, Seychelles, Nightlife, Voice acting, History of perfume --Bananasoldier (talk) 03:51, 26 May 2015 (UTC)

• History of perfume, Victoria, Seychelles, Amazonas Region, Sin, and Performing arts. Cheers! WordSeventeen (talk) 04:15, 26 May 2015 (UTC)
• Nightlife, Sin, Voice acting, Erik the Red. I will think of another when I can see. Qwertyxp2000 (talk) 06:44, 26 May 2015 (UTC). Okay, Aries (astrology)
• Nightlife, Performing arts, Amazonas Region, Voice acting, Aries (astrology) -- Chamith (talk) 19:43, 27 May 2015 (UTC)
• Nightlife, Performing arts, Sin, Voice acting, Little John. (I also started working on Nightlife a bit.) —Tom Morris (talk) 20:14, 27 May 2015 (UTC)
• Erik the Red, Victoria, Seychelles, Little John, Aries (astrology), Voice acting --CSJJ104 (talk) 13:59, 28 May 2015 (UTC)
• History of perfume, Voice acting, Performing arts, Sin, Aries (astrology) Winner 42 Talk to me! 14:15, 28 May 2015 (UTC)
• History of perfume, Nightlife, Victoria, Seychelles, Sin, Amazonas Region Epic Genius (talk) ± 16:57, 29 May 2015 (UTC)
• Nightlife, Sin, Voice acting, Performing arts, Aries (astrology. Esquivalience ^t 02:25, 1 June 2015 (UTC)

Results (week 25)

Article	Points	Action
Voice acting	21	Remains in holding area
Little John	10	Remains in holding area
Performing arts	24	Scheduled
History of perfume	24	Scheduled
Erik the Red	17	Remains in holding area
Victoria, Seychelles	27	Scheduled
Amazonas Region	16	Remains in holding area
Sin	22	Scheduled
Nightlife	48	Scheduled
Aries (astrology)	14	Remains in holding area

– North America¹⁰⁰⁰ 03:52, 1 June 2015 (UTC)

Assessment

@CSJJ104 and Evad37: Just to remind you, I hadn't been marking the articles of improvement since the Prose article. Qwertyxp2000 (talk - contributions) 05:08, 8 June 2015 (UTC)

Choose the TAFI article for Week 26 of 2015

The following discussion is closed and will soon be archived.

---

• 10 randomly-chosen numbers, generated using this page from Random.org. North America¹⁰⁰⁰ 04:25, 1 June 2015 (UTC)

139 104 158 145 211 266 255 151 132 243

Articles

Per the random numbers above, relative to numerically-listed entries at the Holding area

• History of pharmacy
• Adult
• Cereal
• Geographical pole
• Debt
• Report
• Ratatouille
• Chicken sandwich
• Coffee production in Cuba
• Fat

Notifications

• Pinging –

@Buster7, Northamerica1000, NickPenguin, Whiteghost.ink, Ypnypn, Madalibi, Moswento, Kvng, Coin945, Mark Miller, Evad37, Buffbills7701, GiantSnowman, EMachine03, EuroCarGT, CSJJ104, Iselilja, Khamar North America¹⁰⁰⁰ 04:33, 1 June 2015 (UTC)

@Finnusertop, Tomásdearg92, CSJJ104, Davey2010, Stuartyeates, Gongshow, Jim Carter - Public, SL93, MrWooHoo, The boss 1998, Qwertyxp2000, Bananasoldier, Rcsprinter123, Epicgenius North America¹⁰⁰⁰ 04:33, 1 June 2015 (UTC)

• Messaging – Users on the Notifications list have been messaged about this week's vote. North America¹⁰⁰⁰ 04:37, 1 June 2015 (UTC)

Votes and comments

• Cereal, Geographical pole, Chicken sandwich, Coffee production in Cuba, Fat --Human3015 Say Hey!! • 05:56, 1 June 2015 (UTC)
• Adult, Geographical pole, Fat, Report, Ratatouille - Qwertyxp2000 (talk) 06:21, 1 June 2015 (UTC)
• Geographical pole, Fat, History of pharmacy, Adult, Ratatouille --CSJJ104 (talk) 11:58, 1 June 2015 (UTC)
• Coffee production in Cuba, Cereal, Debt, Ratatouille, Adult. GiantSnowman 12:17, 1 June 2015 (UTC)
• Geographical pole, Fat, History of pharmacy, Adult, Coffee production in Cuba --Atsme^📞📧 17:53, 1 June 2015 (UTC)
• Geographical pole, Fat, History of pharmacy, Adult, Chicken sandwich. –Davey2010^Talk 18:01, 1 June 2015 (UTC)
• Adult, Coffee production in Cuba, Chicken sandwich, Ratatouille, Report --Brandon (MrWooHoo) • Talk to Brandon! 21:46, 1 June 2015 (UTC)
• Fat, Cereal, Adult, Geographical pole, History of pharmacy. --NickPenguin_(contribs) 01:39, 2 June 2015 (UTC)
• Fat, Debt, Cereal, Chicken sandwich, Adult. Esquivalience ^t 03:02, 2 June 2015 (UTC)
• Geographical pole, Chicken sandwich, Fat, History of pharmacy, Ratatouille, Report --Bananasoldier (talk) 05:52, 2 June 2015 (UTC)
• History of pharmacy, Adult, Cereal, Fat, Debt --Anarchyte 10:02, 2 June 2015 (UTC)
• Coffee production in Cuba, Ratatouille, Chicken sandwich, Cereal, Fat. North America¹⁰⁰⁰ 01:28, 3 June 2015 (UTC)
• Report, Fat, Adult, Cereal, History of pharmacy. Joseph2302 (talk) 23:44, 4 June 2015 (UTC)
• Ratatouille, Chicken sandwich, Cereal, Adult, Geographical pole -- Chamith (talk) 09:18, 6 June 2015 (UTC)

Results (week 26)

Article	Points	Action
History of pharmacy	19	Scheduled
Adult	30	Scheduled
Cereal	26	Scheduled
Geographical pole	31	Scheduled
Debt	8	Remains in holding area
Report	8	Remains in holding area
Ratatouille	17	Remains in holding area
Chicken sandwich	19	Scheduled
Coffee production in Cuba	17	Remains in holding area
Fat	36	Scheduled

– Due to a tie, six articles will be scheduled for week 26. North America¹⁰⁰⁰ 17:56, 8 June 2015 (UTC)

Linking Plurals

On this weeks' articles I see a lot of this happening: [[genotype]]s

Should I fix it this/does it not matter? [[genotype|genotypes]]

Brandon (MrWooHoo) • Talk to Brandon! 22:25, 8 June 2015 (UTC)

Hi @MrWooHoo: I think it's more of a stylistic thing and doesn't really matter. Some people might consider [[genotype|genotypes]] redundant over [[genotype]]s, since both work. Thanks, Bananasoldier (talk) 01:13, 9 June 2015 (UTC)

According to MOS:PIPE, [[genotype]]s is "easier to type and clearer to read in the source text". Finnusertop (talk | guestbook | contribs) 22:09, 9 June 2015 (UTC)

Shortcut for main page

Hi! I stumbled across TAFI coming from another language's Wikipedia (I find that ever so slightly ironic, considering...). Anyway, it looks really interesting, but I quickly notice that the TAFI main page doesn't show a little box titled "Shortcut" with a link WP:TAFI. I think it should appear there, but I don't know how to create and place it in a proper place. But, an addition to that page would be nice! --TheBlueWizard (talk) 02:05, 13 June 2015 (UTC)

 Done, and thanks for your interest, TheBlueWizard. The reason it wasn't there before was that I couldn't find a place for it without mucking up the layout - but I just now thought of a way to do it, and it seems to work. - Evad37 [talk] 02:34, 13 June 2015 (UTC)

Choose the TAFI article for Week 27 of 2015

The following discussion is closed and will soon be archived.

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• 10 randomly-chosen numbers, generated using this page from Random.org. North America¹⁰⁰⁰ 18:16, 8 June 2015 (UTC)

228 193 273 146 62 143 82 89 116 71

Articles

• Footwear
• Immersion (virtual reality)
• Garmin
• Party
• Arab cuisine
• Local area network
• Twentieth-century theatre
• Slogan
• Western literature
• ¥

Notifications

• Pinging –

@Buster7, Northamerica1000, NickPenguin, Whiteghost.ink, Ypnypn, Madalibi, Moswento, Kvng, Coin945, Mark Miller, Evad37, Buffbills7701, GiantSnowman, EMachine03, EuroCarGT, CSJJ104, Iselilja, Khamar North America¹⁰⁰⁰ 18:13, 8 June 2015 (UTC)

@Finnusertop, Tomásdearg92, CSJJ104, Davey2010, Stuartyeates, Gongshow, Jim Carter - Public, SL93, MrWooHoo, The boss 1998, Qwertyxp2000, Bananasoldier, Rcsprinter123, Epicgenius North America¹⁰⁰⁰ 18:13, 8 June 2015 (UTC)

• Messaging – Users on the Notifications list have been messaged about this week's vote. North America¹⁰⁰⁰ 18:19, 8 June 2015 (UTC)

Votes and comments

• ¥, Arab cuisine, Footwear, Slogan, Western literature --Brandon (MrWooHoo) • Talk to Brandon! 20:34, 8 June 2015 (UTC)
• Local area network, Slogan, Western literature, ¥ and Footwear. Qwertyxp2000 (talk - contributions) 20:40, 8 June 2015 (UTC)
• Party, Arab cuisine, Footwear, LAN, Slogan. –Davey2010^Talk 21:12, 8 June 2015 (UTC)
• Party, Arab cuisine, Footwear, Western literature, Slogan. North America¹⁰⁰⁰ 08:05, 9 June 2015 (UTC)
• Party, Arab cuisine, Footwear, Western literature, Slogan. --Human3015 Say Hey!! • 08:07, 9 June 2015 (UTC)
• Arab cuisine, Western literature, Party, Slogan, Footwear. GiantSnowman 11:57, 9 June 2015 (UTC)
• Western literature, Party, Slogan, LAN, Footwear -- Chamith (talk) 12:22, 9 June 2015 (UTC)
• Party, Footwear, Slogan, ¥, Local area network. EoRdE6^{(Come Talk to Me!)} 14:50, 9 June 2015 (UTC)
• Local area network, Party, Footwear, Western literature, ¥. Joseph2302 (talk) 18:03, 9 June 2015 (UTC)
• Twentieth-century theatre, Immersion (virtual reality), Footwear, Slogan, Local area network --CSJJ104 (talk) 22:46, 9 June 2015 (UTC)
• Immersion, Local area network, Slogan, Western literature, and Garmin. . Buster Seven Talk 06:46, 10 June 2015 (UTC)
• Arab cuisine, Party, Slogan, ¥, Footwear. Esquivalience ^t 23:42, 11 June 2015 (UTC)

Comments

Two things I noticed about these articles which people may wish to consider in relation to this wikiprojects goals:

• Party is currently semi-protected. This limits the input new editors can make. Typically they need an account 4 days old with at least 10 edits before they can edit semi-protected articles.
• Twentieth-century theatre has been tagged as needing immediate attention, for a good length of time, but still a comment on the wikiprojects talk page highlighting this might encourage participation from outside TAFI. --CSJJ104 (talk) 22:55, 9 June 2015 (UTC)

All right, I reckon that if Party is scheduled and becomes a TAFI, then put this to a pending changes, but immediately revert to semi-protect once TAFI is finished. Qwertyxp2000 (talk - contributions) 07:59, 11 June 2015 (UTC)

Results (week 27)

(To be announced on Sunday (UTC).)

Article	Points	Action
Footwear	26	Scheduled
Immersion (virtual reality)	9	Remains in holding area
Garmin	1	Archived
Party	35	Scheduled
Arab cuisine	26	Scheduled
Local area network	16	Remains in holding area
Twentieth-century theatre	5	Archived
Slogan	26	Scheduled
Western literature	20	Scheduled
¥	12	Remains in holding area

– North America¹⁰⁰⁰ 20:12, 16 June 2015 (UTC)

Net versus gross votes and tallying on the nomination page

On the Nomination page, it presently states that "Successful nominations have few or no objections and at least 3 net supports" and "Unsuccessful nominations can be archived after 21 days of no discussion or after 3 net opposing votes" (bold emphasis mine). Should we keep this net tallying system in place, in which votes and tallies are countered by opposite votes, or go to a simpler format using gross tallying, whereby nominations that receive either 3 support or opposing votes can then be approved or disapproved, regardless of other votes to the contrary (unless it's a tie with 3 support and 3 oppose, in which case the next vote will decide)?

• I support changing to the gross tallying format, which will simplify matters. North America¹⁰⁰⁰ 21:53, 9 June 2015 (UTC)
• Oh god, if only I could trout Northamerica1000. Yeh, he had not been following such rules. Qwertyxp2000 (talk - contributions) 07:56, 11 June 2015 (UTC)

@Qwertyxp2000: The present net system was not really ever discussed in terms of its meaning and usage, existing simply as the word "net" on the nominations page. I admit that I overlooked considering tallying based upon votes cancelling others out. I and others have simply closed discussions after three support or oppose votes had been posted (in nominations with two or less contradictory votes).

Which system do you prefer using at this time? As above, I prefer gross tallying, which from what I can tell has been the actual system used for some time. If votes are going to cancel one-another out, nominations may stay on the page for months. North America¹⁰⁰⁰ 23:49, 11 June 2015 (UTC)

I support just gross votes, so the first to 3 is what happens. Otherwise something could stay on there for ages. Joseph2302 (talk) 00:13, 12 June 2015 (UTC)

Note that nominations are (or should be) archived as unsuccessful after 21 days of no discussion (and this number can be adjusted based on page activity) – so staying on the page for ages shouldn't be too much of a concern - Evad37 [talk] 01:17, 12 June 2015 (UTC)

• More input here would help, so pinging project participants in hopes to obtain more opinions. North America¹⁰⁰⁰ 23:33, 18 June 2015 (UTC)

@Buster7, Northamerica1000, NickPenguin, Whiteghost.ink, Ypnypn, Madalibi, Moswento, Kvng, Coin945, Mark Miller, Evad37, Buffbills7701, GiantSnowman, EMachine03, EuroCarGT, CSJJ104, Iselilja, Khamar North America¹⁰⁰⁰ 23:33, 18 June 2015 (UTC)

@Finnusertop, Tomásdearg92, CSJJ104, Davey2010, Stuartyeates, Gongshow, Jim Carter - Public, SL93, MrWooHoo, The boss 1998, Qwertyxp2000, Bananasoldier, Rcsprinter123, Epicgenius North America¹⁰⁰⁰ 23:33, 18 June 2015 (UTC)

• Ping received, although I already did comment on the section here. Qwertyxp2000 (talk - contributions) 11:04, 19 June 2015 (UTC)

Choose the TAFI article for Week 28 of 2015

The following discussion is closed and will soon be archived.

---

• 10 randomly-chosen numbers, generated using this page from Random.org. North America¹⁰⁰⁰ 20:41, 16 June 2015 (UTC)

115 208 155 22 28 242 294 149 153 222

Articles

Per the random numbers above, relative to numerically-listed entries at the Holding area

• Staple food
• Exhibition
• The Thinker
• Mario Kart
• Pecan pie
• Rump steak
• Decolonization
• Holiest sites in Islam
• Job
• Keystone species

Notifications

• Pinging –

@Buster7, Northamerica1000, NickPenguin, Whiteghost.ink, Ypnypn, Madalibi, Moswento, Kvng, Coin945, Mark Miller, Evad37, Buffbills7701, GiantSnowman, EMachine03, EuroCarGT, CSJJ104, Iselilja, Khamar North America¹⁰⁰⁰ 20:44, 16 June 2015 (UTC)

@Finnusertop, Tomásdearg92, CSJJ104, Davey2010, Stuartyeates, Gongshow, Jim Carter - Public, SL93, MrWooHoo, The boss 1998, Qwertyxp2000, Bananasoldier, Rcsprinter123, Epicgenius North America¹⁰⁰⁰ 20:45, 16 June 2015 (UTC)

• Messaging – Users on the Notifications list have been messaged about this week's vote. North America¹⁰⁰⁰ 20:47, 16 June 2015 (UTC)

Votes and comments

• Which of the Holiest Sites in Islam articles is intended? There are three on the disambiguation page linked to. Rcsprinter₁₂₃ (push) @ 20:51, 16 June 2015 (UTC)

All three, I suppose. North America¹⁰⁰⁰ 20:55, 16 June 2015 (UTC)

When disambig. pages are nominated, the idea is to expand them into overview articles, like we did for solar activity - Evad37 [talk] 23:48, 16 June 2015 (UTC)

That makes perfect sense. Struck my comment above. North America¹⁰⁰⁰ 00:24, 17 June 2015 (UTC)

• Holiest sites in Islam, Decolonization, Staple food, Job and Keystone species. —M@sssly^✉ 00:04, 17 June 2015 (UTC)
• Holiest sites in Islam, Decolonization, Rump steak, Mario Kart, Pecan pie. GiantSnowman 17:41, 17 June 2015 (UTC)
• Exhibition, Holiest sites in Islam Bananasoldier (talk) 18:37, 17 June 2015 (UTC)
• Holiest sites in Islam, Mario Kart, Exhibition, Job, Pecan pie. –Davey2010^Talk 19:12, 17 June 2015 (UTC)
• Rump steak, Mario Kart, Job, Pecan pie, Holiest sites in Islam Qwertyxp2000 (talk - contributions) 00:04, 18 June 2015 (UTC)
• Staple food, Rump steak, Pecan pie, Keystone species, Holiest sites in Islam. North America¹⁰⁰⁰ 23:28, 18 June 2015 (UTC)
• Job, Holiest sites in Islam, Rump steak, Pecan pie, Exhibition. Rcsprinter¹²³ (intone) @ 19:09, 19 June 2015 (UTC)
• Rump steak, Mario Kart, Staple food, Decolonization, and Pecan pie. Esquivalience ^t 13:38, 20 June 2015 (UTC)
• Holiest sites in Islam, Job, Keystone species, Exhibition, The Thinker. --NickPenguin_(contribs) 17:39, 20 June 2015 (UTC)

Results (week 28)

Article	Points	Action
Staple food	11	Scheduled
Exhibition	11	Scheduled
The Thinker	1	Archived
Mario Kart	14	Scheduled
Pecan pie	10	Remains in holding area
Rump steak	20	Scheduled
Decolonization	10	Remains in holding area
Holiest sites in Islam	30	Scheduled
Job	16	Scheduled
Keystone species	6	Remains in holding area

- Due to a tie, six articles will be scheduled for week 28. North America¹⁰⁰⁰ 00:27, 22 June 2015 (UTC)

Choose the TAFI article for Week 29 of 2015

The following discussion is closed and will soon be archived.

---

• 10 randomly-chosen numbers, generated using this page from Random.org. North America¹⁰⁰⁰ 00:40, 22 June 2015 (UTC)

296 271 71 159 140 31 180 223 96 81

Articles

Per the random numbers above, relative to numerically-listed entries at the Holding area

• Hemispheres of the Earth
• Head
• Berry
• Kayaking
• Oscar speech
• Venice International Film Festival
• Elephants in ancient China
• Bottled water
• Chalk
• Ticker tape

Notifications

• Pinging –

@Buster7, Northamerica1000, NickPenguin, Whiteghost.ink, Ypnypn, Madalibi, Moswento, Kvng, Coin945, Mark Miller, Evad37, Buffbills7701, GiantSnowman, EMachine03, EuroCarGT, CSJJ104, Iselilja, Khamar North America¹⁰⁰⁰ 00:43, 22 June 2015 (UTC)

@Finnusertop, Tomásdearg92, CSJJ104, Davey2010, Stuartyeates, Gongshow, Jim Carter - Public, SL93, MrWooHoo, The boss 1998, Qwertyxp2000, Bananasoldier, Rcsprinter123, Epicgenius North America¹⁰⁰⁰ 00:44, 22 June 2015 (UTC)

• Messaging – Users on the Notifications list have been messaged about this week's vote. North America¹⁰⁰⁰ 00:49, 22 June 2015 (UTC)

Votes and comments

• Elephants in ancient China, Hemispheres of the Earth, Oscar speech, Venice International Film Festival, Kayaking. GiantSnowman 12:43, 22 June 2015 (UTC)
• Kayaking, Berry, Head, Chalk, Bottled water Qwertyxp2000 (talk | contribs) 20:40, 22 June 2015 (UTC)
• Ticker tape, Elephants in ancient China, Hemispheres of the Earth, Kayaking, Venice International Film Festival.. Buster Seven Talk 20:42, 22 June 2015 (UTC)
• Kayaking, Elephants in ancient China, Hemispheres of the Earth, Bottled water, Ticker tape. –Davey2010^Talk 20:56, 22 June 2015 (UTC)
• Kayaking, Berry, Hemispheres of the Earth, Venice International Film Festival, Bottled water. ///EuroCarGT 01:20, 23 June 2015 (UTC)
• Oscar speech, Kayaking, Head, Hemispheres of the Earth, Berry. --Anarchyte 11:19, 23 June 2015 (UTC)
• Kayaking, Bottled water, Ticker tape, Berry, Hemispheres of the Earth. North America¹⁰⁰⁰ 18:03, 23 June 2015 (UTC)
• I did not receive ping. However, I did receive the message about asking to vote. Qwertyxp2000 (talk | contribs) 20:36, 23 June 2015 (UTC)'
• I still think there are major issues with voting taking precedence on actual improvement, but since i was pinged I might as well vote. Oscar speech (which i created and think is very notable), Head, Bottled water (i've noticed a recent obsession with food around here. weird...)--Coin945 (talk) 05:07, 24 June 2015 (UTC)

Results (week 29)

(To be announced on Sunday (UTC).)

Article	Points	Action
Hemispheres of the Earth	16	Scheduled
Head	10	Remains in holding area
Berry	11	Remains in holding area
Kayaking	27	Scheduled
Oscar speech	13	Scheduled
Venice International Film Festival	5	Archived
Elephants in ancient China	13	Scheduled
Bottled water	12	Scheduled
Chalk	2	Archived
Ticker tape	9	Remains in holding area

– North America¹⁰⁰⁰ 02:05, 29 June 2015 (UTC)

• @Northamerica1000: You did not remove the unsuccessful articles named Chalk and Venice International Film Festival. I have archived them to that Holding Area archive, but have not removed the articles because I do not have enough time. Got to do more NCEA I have to do more NCEA work. Qwertyxp2000 (talk | contribs) 08:14, 1 July 2015 (UTC)

• Thanks for the reminder and for listing the entries at the archive page. I have removed the two entries from the holding area (diff). North America¹⁰⁰⁰ 22:22, 1 July 2015 (UTC)

Choose the TAFI article for Week 30 of 2015

The following discussion is closed and will soon be archived.

---

• 10 randomly-chosen numbers, generated using this page from Random.org. North America¹⁰⁰⁰ 02:17, 29 June 2015 (UTC)

219 87 173 153 34 42 103 113 101 81

Articles

Per the random numbers above, relative to numerically-listed entries at the Holding area

• General aviation
• Sack of Rome (410)
• Synchronization (computer science)
• Taboo
• Post-production
• Dessert
• Subatomic particle
• Aerosol spray
• Home
• Ticker tape

Notifications

• Pinging –

@Buster7, Northamerica1000, NickPenguin, Whiteghost.ink, Ypnypn, Madalibi, Moswento, Kvng, Coin945, Mark Miller, Evad37, Buffbills7701, GiantSnowman, EMachine03, EuroCarGT, CSJJ104, Iselilja, Khamar North America¹⁰⁰⁰ 02:20, 29 June 2015 (UTC)

@Finnusertop, Tomásdearg92, CSJJ104, Davey2010, Stuartyeates, Gongshow, Jim Carter - Public, SL93, MrWooHoo, The boss 1998, Qwertyxp2000, Bananasoldier, Rcsprinter123, Epicgenius North America¹⁰⁰⁰ 02:21, 29 June 2015 (UTC)

• Messaging – Users on the Notifications list have been messaged about this week's vote. North America¹⁰⁰⁰ 02:25, 29 June 2015 (UTC)

Votes and comments

• Dessert, Home, Post-production, Taboo, Synchronization (computer science). User:Josve05a 02:27, 29 June 2015 (UTC)
• Home, Post-production, Taboo, Dessert and Synchronisation (computer science) Subatomic particle. I just feel empty in some of the articles. Qwertyxp2000 (talk | contribs) 04:29, 29 June 2015 (UTC)
• Hmm... for some reason Wikipedia says to say "It is not a democracy". We could still do this vote thing here, but also give reasons for one's own voting? Qwertyxp2000 (talk | contribs) 04:29, 29 June 2015 (UTC)
• Taboo, Post-production, Synchronization (computer science), Post-production, Home.—M@sssly^✉ 06:00, 29 June 2015 (UTC)
• Home, Post-production, Ticker tape, Synchronization (computer science), General aviation. Rcsprinter₁₂₃ (notify) @ 09:47, 29 June 2015 (UTC)
• Home, Dessert, Synchronization (computer science), Post-production, Taboo. --Anarchyte 12:09, 29 June 2015 (UTC)
• Dessert, Sack of Rome (410), Taboo, Aerosol spray, Ticker tape. GiantSnowman 09:25, 30 June 2015 (UTC)
• Home, Dessert, Taboo, Aerosol spray, General aviation. --NickPenguin_(contribs) 19:07, 1 July 2015 (UTC)
• General aviation, Aerosol spray, Dessert, Ticker tape, Subatomic particle. North America¹⁰⁰⁰ 22:24, 1 July 2015 (UTC)
• Dessert, Post production, Home, Aerosol spray, Taboo. –Davey2010^Talk 22:30, 1 July 2015 (UTC)

I apologize for the error earlier - The UK's had a heatwave and so I think it's melted my brain completely , –Davey2010^Talk 22:38, 1 July 2015 (UTC)

• General aviation, Aerosol spray, Dessert, Ticker tape, Subatomic particle.--Human3015 knock knock • 17:27, 2 July 2015 (UTC)
• Dessert, Post production, Home, General aviation, Synchronization (computer science) -- Chamith (talk) 19:13, 4 July 2015 (UTC)

Results (week 30)

Article	Points	Action
General aviation	14	Scheduled
Sack of Rome (410)	4	Archived
Synchronization (computer science)	8	Remains in holding area
Taboo	18	Scheduled
Post-production	17	Scheduled
Dessert	37	Scheduled
Subatomic particle	3	Archived
Aerosol spray	14	Scheduled
Home	31	Scheduled
Ticker tape	8	Remains in holding area

– Due to a tie, six articles will be scheduled for week 30. North America¹⁰⁰⁰ 08:50, 8 July 2015 (UTC)

Choose the TAFI article for Week 31 of 2015

The following discussion is closed and will soon be archived.

---

• 10 randomly-chosen numbers, generated using this page from Random.org. North America¹⁰⁰⁰ 09:09, 8 July 2015 (UTC)

119 59 218 118 154 256 216 38 269 112

Articles

Per the random numbers above, relative to numerically-listed entries at the Holding area

• Scale (music)
• Unmanned spaceflight
• Igloo
• Extra (acting)
• Voice acting
• Head
• Haribo
• Wage
• Underground restaurant
• Performance

Notifications

• Pinging –

@Buster7, Northamerica1000, NickPenguin, Whiteghost.ink, Ypnypn, Madalibi, Moswento, Kvng, Coin945, Mark Miller, Evad37, Buffbills7701, GiantSnowman, EMachine03, EuroCarGT, CSJJ104, Iselilja, Khamar North America¹⁰⁰⁰ 09:14, 8 July 2015 (UTC)

@Finnusertop, Tomásdearg92, CSJJ104, Davey2010, Stuartyeates, Gongshow, Jim Carter - Public, SL93, MrWooHoo, The boss 1998, Qwertyxp2000, Bananasoldier, Rcsprinter123, Epicgenius North America¹⁰⁰⁰ 09:14, 8 July 2015 (UTC)

• Messaging – Users on the Notifications list have been messaged about this week's vote. North America¹⁰⁰⁰ 09:17, 8 July 2015 (UTC)

Votes and comments

• Igloo, Underground restaurant, Unmanned spaceflight, Haribo, and Wage. MrWooHoo (talk) 11:20, 8 July 2015 (UTC)
• Igloo, Haribo, Underground restaurant, Unmanned spaceflight, Extra (acting). GiantSnowman 12:03, 8 July 2015 (UTC)
• Igloo Underground restaurant Voice acting Wage Head Grognard Extraordinaire Chess (talk) Ping when replying 12:40, 8 July 2015 (UTC)

@Chess: Why did you write "Grognard Extraordinaire"? Qwertyxp2000 (talk | contribs) 07:07, 9 July 2015 (UTC)

It's in my signature. Grognard Extraordinaire Chess (talk) Ping when replying 07:12, 9 July 2015 (UTC)

• Igloo, Voice acting, Underground restaurant, Unmanned spaceflight, Extra (acting). -AuthorAuthor (talk) 17:35, 8 July 2015 (UTC)
• Igloo, Underground restaurant, Unmanned spaceflight, Voice acting, Extra (acting). –Davey2010^Talk 18:57, 8 July 2015 (UTC)
• Haribo, Head, Scale (music), Wage, Performance Qwertyxp2000 (talk | contribs) 07:06, 9 July 2015 (UTC)
• Head, Unmanned spaceflight, Performance, Voice acting, Scale (music). Rcsprinter₁₂₃ (sing) @ 10:56, 9 July 2015 (UTC)
• Unmanned spaceflight, Underground restaurant, Performance, Igloo, Voice acting. North America¹⁰⁰⁰ 01:02, 10 July 2015 (UTC)
• Unmanned spaceflight, Wage, Performance, Igloo, Voice acting. -- Chamith (talk) 06:05, 12 July 2015 (UTC)
• Unmanned spaceflight, Igloo, Underground restaurant, Haribo, Wage. Ryan115 (talk) 10:13, 12 July 2015 (UTC)

Results (week 31)

Article	Points	Action
Scale (music)	4	Archived
Unmanned spaceflight	29	Scheduled
Igloo	33	Scheduled
Extra (acting)	3	Archived
Voice acting	13	Scheduled
Head	10	Remains in holding area
Haribo	13	Scheduled
Wage	10	Remains in holding area
Underground restaurant	25	Scheduled
Performance	10	Remains in holding area

– North America¹⁰⁰⁰ 11:25, 12 July 2015 (UTC)

Choose the TAFI article for Week 32 of 2015

The following discussion is closed and will soon be archived.

---

• 10 randomly-chosen numbers, generated using this page from Random.org. North America¹⁰⁰⁰ 12:07, 12 July 2015 (UTC)

178 28 29 18 110 248 255 119 70 226

Articles

Per the random numbers above, relative to numerically-listed entries at the Holding area

• WordPress
• Portal (doorway)
• Social change
• Double standard
• John Harington (writer)
• Information Age
• Music venue
• Farmhouse
• Parable
• Report

Notifications

• Pinging –

@Buster7, Northamerica1000, NickPenguin, Whiteghost.ink, Ypnypn, Madalibi, Moswento, Kvng, Coin945, Mark Miller, Evad37, Buffbills7701, GiantSnowman, EMachine03, EuroCarGT, CSJJ104, Iselilja, Khamar North America¹⁰⁰⁰ 12:29, 12 July 2015 (UTC)

@Finnusertop, Tomásdearg92, CSJJ104, Davey2010, Stuartyeates, Gongshow, Jim Carter - Public, SL93, MrWooHoo, The boss 1998, Qwertyxp2000, Bananasoldier, Rcsprinter123, Epicgenius North America¹⁰⁰⁰ 12:29, 12 July 2015 (UTC)

• Messaging – Users on the Notifications list have been messaged about this week's vote. North America¹⁰⁰⁰ 12:32, 12 July 2015 (UTC)

Votes

• John Harington (writer), Parable, Music venue, Farmhouse, Social change. GiantSnowman 12:34, 12 July 2015 (UTC)
• Social change, Information Age, Double standard, Parable, Farmhouse.. Buster Seven Talk 17:48, 12 July 2015 (UTC)
• Farmhouse, Music venue, Portals in fiction, Report, Information Age. –Davey2010^Talk 01:22, 13 July 2015 (UTC)
• Music venue, Farmhouse, Social change, Double standard, Information Age. North America¹⁰⁰⁰ 14:49, 13 July 2015 (UTC)

Results (week 32)

Article	Points	Action
WordPress	0	Remains in holding area
Portals in fiction (Portal (doorway) redirects to this)	3	Remains in holding area
Social change	9	Scheduled
Double standard	5	Remains in holding area
John Harington (writer)	5	Remains in holding area
Information Age	6	Scheduled
Music venue	12	Scheduled
Farmhouse	12	Scheduled
Parable	6	Scheduled
Report	2	Remains in holding area

– Since as per the below discussion, this project may be changing soon, it appears that many have chosen to comment at the discussion rather than voting for the weekly selections. As a precautionary action in light of this, for Week 32 I have retained articles in the holding area that received five or fewer points in the above thread. This is to 1) maintain the integrity of the processes/votes that occurred for the entries to be in the holding area, and 2) it is unclear at this time how holding area entries will be handled if and when the project changes form. North America¹⁰⁰⁰ 11:30, 19 July 2015 (UTC)

link broken to www.stats.grok.se

It took me to a dnr page -- if I put in just stats.grok.se, it works. But it won't let me edit the header. valereee (talk) 15:16, 21 July 2015 (UTC)

Can you be more specific as to which exact link(s), on which page(s), are broken? - Evad37 [talk] 16:23, 21 July 2015 (UTC)

Article Nomination page, top section, this line, section I've bolded: Nominations should include an article's currently assessed Class Rating, as well as the average number of daily hits (see www.stats.grok.se). Successfully nominated articles are moved into the Holding Area, until they are added into the Schedule. valereee (talk) 14:09, 22 July 2015 (UTC)

 Fixed. The header content for the nominations page comes from Wikipedia:Today's articles for improvement/Guidelines - Evad37 [talk] 15:12, 22 July 2015 (UTC)

Ah! Thanks, I was sitting here thinking maybe I didn't have some sort of necessary permission.  :) valereee (talk) 18:55, 22 July 2015 (UTC)

This week's articles for improvement (week 31, 2015)

An example of an igloo Hello, Today's articles for improvement. The following are WikiProject Today's articles for improvement's weekly selections: Igloo Unmanned spaceflight Underground restaurant Haribo Voice acting Previous selections: Dessert • Kayaking • Holiest sites in Islam Get involved with the TAFI project! You can... Nominate an article Review nominations Have your say in future selections Posted by: North America1000 00:30, 27 July 2015 (UTC) on behalf of WikiProject TAFI •

The TAFI article for Week 34 of 2015

Three plates of soufflés

The selection for week 34 (starting 17 August 2015) is Soufflé. Esquivalience ^t 04:00, 3 August 2015 (UTC)

Discussion (week 34)

Please any comments or concerns about the selection here. If three net members elect to reselect the article, then the article will be reselected and the former one removed from the list of articles.

• Doesn't seem a problem, eh? Qwertyxp2000 (talk | contribs) 09:22, 9 August 2015 (UTC)

Change project processes

I'm losing motivation to continue coordinating the weekly voting, mostly because I have noticed that not much improvement, and sometimes no improvements, have been occurring in the project's weekly selections. It seems that I'm spinning my wheels, in terms of working to keep things moving, but without much article improvement actually occurring to qualify the work. I think this is a great project with significant potential, but if people are only voting here and not making any article improvements, my motivation to continue coordination here decreases. In the past, significant collaborations have occurred which have greatly improved articles, but I haven't been seeing this in the last couple of months. See below for examples.

• Wikipedia:Today's articles for improvement/2015/25

1. Nightlife – Some work occurred
2. Victoria, Seychelles – Some work occurred
3. History of perfume – Almost no work occurred, two total edits
4. Performing arts – Some work occurred, but not much
5. Sin – Some work occurred

• Wikipedia:Today's articles for improvement/2015/26

1. Fat – Some work occurred
2. Geographical pole – Some work occurred
3. Adult – No work occurred
4. Cereal – Some work occurred, but not much
5. Chicken sandwich – Some work occurred, but not much
6. History of pharmacy – Almost no work occurred, two edits, both performed by myself

• Wikipedia:Today's articles for improvement/2015/27

1. Party – Some work occurred, but not much
2. Arab cuisine – Almost no work occurred, three edits, all performed by myself
3. Footwear – Some work occurred
4. Slogan – Almost no work occurred, two total edits
5. Western literature – Almost no work occurred, three total edits

• Wikipedia:Today's articles for improvement/2015/28 (as of this post)

1. Holiest sites in Islam – No work occurred
2. Rump steak – Almost no work occurred, two edits, both performed by myself
3. Job – Some work occurred
4. Mario Kart – Some work occurred, but not much
5. Exhibition – Almost no work occurred, two edits, both performed by myself
6. Staple food – Almost no work occurred, three total edits

– Perhaps as discussed in the past, for example...

• Convert TAFI nominations page to a general notice board
• Let's get down to work
• Too many nominations!
• New project proposals...

changes should occur to better facilitate article improvements. As an example, we could change the formatting of the project. For example, entries at the holding area could be randomly scheduled weekly, and the voting process could be moved to the nominations page. North America¹⁰⁰⁰ 12:20, 12 July 2015 (UTC)

For those of us in the Northern hemisphere, it's high summer. For me that usually means a lot less time spent doing indoor stuff. I'm wondering if that could be part of the issue -- seasonality of input? What I mean is, perhaps a couple months isn't long enough to assess whether a project is petering out? valereee (talk) 12:54, 12 July 2015 (UTC)

It does appear that more work is going into running the project than into improving articles. That's not a good situation. There needs to be a critical mass of editors improving articles to make this project work. T think that has been missing for some time. Without it, I might as well go off and work on articles or other project that suit my whim. ~Kvng (talk) 14:46, 12 July 2015 (UTC)

Despite the voting process, it's probably the lack of interest/systemic bias against the topics. Topics such as deep frying (most people probably eat a deep-fried product often) got a significant expansion, enough to be considered "new" for DYK; but a topic such as Holiest sites in Islam won't get the same treatment because the editing environment on Islam-related topics is contentious on Wikipedia. Esquivalience ^t 00:25, 13 July 2015 (UTC)

It may also be time to re-evaluate if there should still be 5–6 articles week, given the low participation. This situation actually reminds me of November 2013, and WFC's comments:

But despite that low count [of active TAFI editors], you're still picking ten articles a week. Far too many. A few of you need to gang together, find a crap article that three or four of you personally want to edit, and do a week long collab just on that one. And then another. And another. After a string of 3-4 good efforts, advertise the fact that TAFI has been revamped and is turning a corner, perhaps on Signpost, to start reeling editors back in. ... One other thing I would say is that you shouldn't worry about systemic bias at this stage, what's far more important is that you pick rubbish articles that you have an interest in editing on that particular week. If you pick the right articles and see the collaborations through, the number of people who take part will steadily increase, and diversity will eventually return.

We did some great collabs after following that advice (especially June to October 2014)... so I do think a project reboot would be good – maybe not exactly the same as before, but at least the same general idea – get back to the basics of actually improving crap articles, and simplify project processes (and the human effort required to make them work) - Evad37 [talk] 01:16, 13 July 2015 (UTC)

To be fair I guess people are only motivated to improve articles when it's something they're interested in, Then again I don't exactly do much article-improving myself here but little is better than nothing I guess, –Davey2010^Talk 01:18, 13 July 2015 (UTC)

@Northamerica1000:, I appreciate your efforts for this project, I think TAFI is most important project of Wikipedia and should be given first priority because Wikipedia is all about articles and via this forum one can get inspiration to improve any article. But main problem of this project is low participation of the editors, even during voting very less number of people votes. I think solution over this to try to involve more and more editors in this project. Simple solution could be there should be separate welcome message regarding TAFI like "Wikipedia adventure" has or "Teahouse" has. There should be bot which will send this TAFI template message to every new user same way bot sends Teahouse message to new users. Also we people welcome many users, then there should be such TAFI template in twinkle generated welcome messages,(there is already separate option of "wikipedia adventure" in list of twinkle welcome messages). I don't know if there is any bot exists regarding this. Moreover, If any user improves any article in positive way then admin should give him a barnstar, so that he will get inspired to work in that manner, because for a common user it is always big thing to get barnstar from admin, so this can be nice way to keep him inspired. --Human3015 knock knock • 03:28, 13 July 2015 (UTC)

I like what Evad37 (and WaitingForConnection have said. Let's redirect efforts to improving crap articles. Article topic is not critical for me; I enjoy learning about new topics. The most important thing is to choose crap articles on popular topics. We could dispense with scheduling and voting overhead and just take turns by assigning individual editors to taking the lead on choosing and improving. ~Kvng (talk) 13:07, 13 July 2015 (UTC)

• I have a possible plan that could revive activity:

• Reduce the amount of TAFIs to two. Gradually increase back to five or more articles once activity is increased.
• At the start, choose important articles that need expansion. New editors and prolific writers don't want to do verification and cleanup. When the number of TAFIs can be safely increased, include one or two of these articles, but we also want to attract new editors and prolific writers.
• Sort the articles based on their needs: expansion, verification, and cleanup. Every week, randomly choose several from the expansion category, then vote.
• Add more links to TAFI in welcome templates and pages for new editors, and create a template inviting new editors. Also, encourage experienced editors to join the project. Once activity increases, increase the number of articles, and TAFI will be alive again.
• A good step that can be taken is to find feminist (as in related to women) topics, nominate some of them, then choose some each week as part of TAFI randomly, without voting. Esquivalience ^t 04:47, 15 July 2015 (UTC)

I'm not sure that's enough different from what we're doing now to shift things. If members of this project would prefer to tweak things rather than reinvent things, I would propose a simple version of Esquivalience's plan.

• Reduce the amount of TAFIs to one
• Add more links to TAFI in welcome templates and pages for new editors etc.
• Reassess after 90 days

~Kvng (talk) 21:05, 15 July 2015 (UTC)

• Endorse Kvng's plan. This seems like the best course of action at this point, reduce article count to adjust for activity. Then promote TAFI as a core project with the reassessment allowing for further adjustment. Ideally I'd like more weeks like the deep frying one where a lot of editors focus on that single article resulting in massive improvement which I think is when TAFI is the most enjoyable. Winner 42 Talk to me! 22:13, 15 July 2015 (UTC)
• Simple enough, support. Esquivalience ^t 23:56, 15 July 2015 (UTC)
• Support - Evad37 [talk] 03:21, 19 July 2015 (UTC)

@GiantSnowman, Buster7, Northamerica1000, Davey2010, Valereee, and Human3015: any comments on Kvng's plan? - Evad37 [talk] 03:27, 19 July 2015 (UTC)

I think his suggestions are nice, we should reduce TAFI articles, we can improve one article at a time, in a week we can nominate 2 articles, 3-4 days for each. If every involved editor does at least one edit on it then that article will surely improve. It takes just 15-20 minutes to improve a "crap" article to a "acceptable" level. But it seems no one does that quite often in this project. But if we nominate one article at a time then people will surely actively participate in it. --Human3015 knock knock • 03:48, 19 July 2015 (UTC)

• Support - His plan sounds great - If we got rid of the scheduling & voting and just instead focus on one shit article and everyone chimes in as much as humanely possible it should hopefully pick up here and hopefully we'd see great improvements, –Davey2010^Talk 04:18, 19 July 2015 (UTC)

Comment: well, I'll have to admit that I'm one of those who prefers to edit articles I have an interest in. I stumbled onto Job while it had the TAFI tag and did a little work on it (actually that was a bit frustrating, as much of my work was reverted by an editor who then didn't bother to respond to me on the talk page) and that was how I ended up finding this project in the first place. I'm not familiar enough with the original process to comment on the proposal in any meaningful way, but certainly choosing a very small number of articles each week that multiple people have an active interest in editing seems to make sense, and it makes no sense at all to have the maintenance of the current process take more of anyone's time each week than is actually being spent on the articles chosen. valereee (talk) 10:54, 19 July 2015 (UTC)

Actually, I'll make one more comment: allowing/asking people to vote for five topics pretty much guarantees that many of the topics chosen are no one's first choice. It might almost be better if in round robin fashion each contributor to the project got a chance to nominate ONE article that would be worked on together for several days by as many of the group who could muster any interest, in the understanding that eventually your own turn will come around and it will be your own favorite crap article that got some attention. You'd work on other people's favorite crap article knowing that eventually you'd have their help with yours. valereee (talk) 11:01, 19 July 2015 (UTC)

• Lots of great ideas here. I'm still contemplating it all, but I'm sure that we will be able to enact changes that will facilitate the project toward having more article improvements occur. North America¹⁰⁰⁰ 11:35, 19 July 2015 (UTC)
• I am happy to support Kvng's idea. GiantSnowman 12:00, 19 July 2015 (UTC)
• Per Kvng's proposal, should present entries in the Holding area simply be chosen randomly (e.g. using this page from Random.org), from which one weekly entry will be scheduled? I have added a short sentence atop the Holding area page, stating "This page also serves as a project list of articles that can be improved at any time" (diff). North America¹⁰⁰⁰ 12:22, 19 July 2015 (UTC)
• I am on board with Kvng's plan. I also agree with Valereee's comments about it being summer in the northern hemisphere, as this has been the main reason I haven't been involved as much. - Presidentman talk · contribs (Talkback) 12:30, 19 July 2015 (UTC)
• It appears thus far that there's a consensus here for KVNG's proposal. Note that in lieu of messaging project members for an upcoming weekly vote on this talk page, I have sent messages alerting members about this discussion, in hopes of receiving maximal input and suggestions. Also note that I have changed the name of the Holding area to "List of articles". In this manner, the (previous) holding area can still be used as a general list of articles for improvement. North America¹⁰⁰⁰ 12:57, 19 July 2015 (UTC)

I agree something's gotta give and support a narrowing-down of articles to work on. You're picking broad articles, which is good. Do these get announced on the village pump, tea house and community boards? If not, they should. Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 13:20, 19 July 2015 (UTC)

@Casliber: The weekly articles do appear at the Community portal. North America¹⁰⁰⁰ 13:32, 19 July 2015 (UTC)

...choose crap articles on popular topics. I support KVNG's proposal. . Buster Seven Talk 15:47, 19 July 2015 (UTC)

• I too agree that the amount of TAFIs should be reduced considerably. Frankly I've always wondered why I keep getting notifications to vote for TAFIs so frequently. I'm not complaining, it's just I think it makes it harder to keep track of TAFIs. I support the endorsement of Kvng's proposal because I have a hunch that it would make a positive difference.--Chamith (talk) 15:57, 19 July 2015 (UTC)
• One article per week would definitely focus attention upon that one article. If people are interested, then improvements will occur, if not, people can always check out the project's List of articles to find other content to work on. North America¹⁰⁰⁰ 16:10, 19 July 2015 (UTC)

That seems reasonable enough to me. -- Chamith (talk) 16:24, 19 July 2015 (UTC)

• One weekly entry, not 5. Also, remove featured articles from the nominations list, and if an article gets to featured article status in the period we've been working on it, we switch to another. Grognard Extraordinaire Chess (talk) Ping when replying 17:48, 19 July 2015 (UTC)
• Main issue is that, people don't nominate articles for improvement in which they are interested, because they will improve it themself without nominating it. Moreover, people are interested in editing articles of their interest, topics related to their city, nation, religion, profession, hobbies etc. Whatever time they stay on Wikipedia they want to improve their topics of interest instead of improving "universal" kind of topics selected for improvement on TAFI. So me too think that one or two weekly entries can make things better. One more thing, "Pending changes reviewer" stats shows "top 5 active users in last one hour", I think same kind of top 5 list should be made "top 5 contributors to TAFI of this week". I think this will motivate editors. --Human3015 knock knock • 18:43, 19 July 2015 (UTC)

• Just to be clear, I actually made two different proposals in this discussion. I assume the one that people are supporting above is my simplified version of Esquivalience's proposal. This is a tweak of current TAFI process - work on one article at a time instead of 5, improvem our project promotion. My other proposal was not as specific but resonates with valereee's comments. Nominating a weekly TAFI leader is a BOLD change to how we're currently running the project. Of course I support the 1-article proposal but I actually think we need to be experimenting with BOLDER proposals to try and find traction for this project. ~Kvng (talk) 20:30, 19 July 2015 (UTC)

• The good news is that we have some time to hammer matters out, if we'd like. Articles are scheduled under the current format through week 32 of 2015 (3 August 2015 – 9 August 2015). If the project wants to see these through, as they have already gone through the entire process, that gives us around 21 days to solidify changes. In many ways we all have it lucky: a significant number of active members. Other projects are unfortunately not so active. North America¹⁰⁰⁰ 03:54, 20 July 2015 (UTC)

Choosing the one article

There seems to be a consensus to limit TAFI to one article per week, but how do we choose the article? Here are some options (feel free to add more):

1. Take turns

   Choose or nominate an active TAFI member that will choose the article for the week. We can start by allowing participants to self-nominate into a calendar on a FCFS basis. If we have an unfilled slot two weeks out, we can nominate participants. Leader will choose article to be improved from the holding area and, to the extent that Wikipedia has leaders, would lead improvement of the article for 7 days.

2. Random choosing

   Each week, choose an article randomly from the holding area.

3. My proposal: Quid pro quo (much like the DYK nomination process)

   This is a modification of Kvng's proposal, where you have to actually get to work in order to be the next chooser. If you have actively (made changes well past gnomish work) worked on X articles (X could be number of active editors in TAFI or some other number) since the last time you chosen an article, you are queued to choose an article.

4. Voting

   Continue to vote for the article for the week.

- Esquivalience ^t 03:59, 20 July 2015 (UTC)

5.  In order of nomination approval

Work through the list in order, from the oldest to the newest.

Discussion (Choosing the one article)

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

---

• I would prefer just one article and a monthly "talk page review of holding area". Qwertyxp2000 (talk | contribs) 04:34, 20 July 2015 (UTC)

• Quid pro quo sounds interesting, but we don't want to have too much manual work, or spend too much effort on project processes rather than article improvement. Who's would be checking over for "active working" on X number of articles? - Evad37 [talk] 05:21, 20 July 2015 (UTC)

• I'm presently leaning toward the one article chosen randomly as per present procedures to generate random numbers. One concern is that at one article per week, with 273 articles in the holding area as of this post, this equates to a 5.25 year backlog. An option is to have two per week, which would place the backlog at 2.62 years. However, more articles seems to equate to a lesser likelihood of them being improved. On the other hand, if people are only interested in one of the two, then they would still have something to work on. Just some ideas, and one per week could nevertheless work out just fine despite the backlog. North America¹⁰⁰⁰ 05:38, 20 July 2015 (UTC)
  • If we were to have two articles per week, we could have one start on a Monday and the second start on the Thursday (each for length of 7 days). People could choose to edit one at a time (with a different article every three to four days), or work on a particular article for a whole week, or work on both articles at once - Evad37 [talk] 05:57, 20 July 2015 (UTC)
    • Upon further consideration about all of this, perhaps we should just go with one a week, with the option of increasing to two if demand exceeds supply. North America¹⁰⁰⁰ 06:00, 20 July 2015 (UTC)

• I would be in favor of the quid pro quo option. - Presidentman talk · contribs (Talkback) 14:36, 20 July 2015 (UTC)

• Quid Pro Quo option. I also like the idea of a leaderboard, although it might be hard to evaluate a single efficient vast edit that improves an entire section against the work of someone who makes eighty gazillion tiny edits that clog up the history. GUILTY----> valereee (talk) 15:57, 20 July 2015 (UTC)

• In re the quid pro quo option, if we were to implement this, would anyone volunteer to manage all of this? I must state that I'm looking to reduce my editing time on the management of this project, and get back to a focus upon article improvements. North America¹⁰⁰⁰ 16:04, 20 July 2015 (UTC)

• If everyone or most is honest, the honor system could work, but we would have to draft tight requirements to count as "active work". Esquivalience ^t 17:45, 20 July 2015 (UTC)

• Well, one way to measure that would be to sum up the number of bytes listed and whoever added the most bytes wins. - Presidentman talk · contribs (Talkback) 18:30, 20 July 2015 (UTC)

• Here's a possible template for the QPQ option. Esquivalience ^t 19:17, 20 July 2015 (UTC)

• That looks good. - Presidentman talk · contribs (Talkback) 12:51, 21 July 2015 (UTC)

• At this time, I support #2, one article per week, randomly chosen, with flexibility in the process if demand to improve articles begins to exceed the supply of articles. North America¹⁰⁰⁰ 16:05, 20 July 2015 (UTC)

• Support 2 - Personally I think we should focus less on the project and more on article improvements overall, QPD although sounds good I personally don't think it'd work but who knows :), Anyway I say 2. –Davey2010^Talk 22:17, 20 July 2015 (UTC)

• I propose that whatever we choose to do, we do it on a trial basis for 90 days and then evaluate progress. In that light, we've already evaluated the voting process and found that there's too much overhead in comparison to article improvements. Random selection reduces overhead but I don't think we're going to get this thing off the ground unless we also increase improvements. Based on the discussion so far, Quid pro quo does not appear have low overhead. It is trying to solve a problem I'm not sure we have. Take turns has low overhead - we just need to post a calendar and let editors drop their own names in. If that turns out to be too chaotic, we can adjust towards Quid pro quo. ~Kvng (talk) 22:21, 20 July 2015 (UTC)

• Support 2 then 3, 1, 4, and 5 in that order. Reducing project effort spent on the project upkeep is important and random selection takes little effort at all compared to the others (except 5, but 5 is silly). QPQ while good in theory seems to be difficult to implement efficiently. On that note, go improve a TAFI article now ! Winner 42 Talk to me! 22:52, 20 July 2015 (UTC)
• I obviously support #3, however #1 is a good start. If the editors who pick the article only pick the article for the sake of picking the article, and not improving any other articles, then move on to #3. Esquivalience ^t 01:03, 21 July 2015 (UTC)

How about a simpler version of the Quid Pro Quo option – one that wont require too much effort, most of which is placed on those suggesting articles. See User:Evad37/Sandbox 3 for an example, but basically, each suggestion would be made in a new section on a suggestions page. The only requirement for making a suggestion is that you have made a significant contribution to a previous TAFI article, and are not already in the suggestions queue. We use a common sense approach to "significant contribution", which is checked by another editor – we'll probably get editors checking each other's work, much like DYK. A third scheduling editor can then simply schedule successful suggestions (or provide a sanity check if something doesn't look right). The scheduling editor then just has to mark entries with a template such as {{Approved}} or {{Unapproved}}, and a bot can archive entries (much like the nominations page).

This system puts most of the work onto those wanting to suggest article, in providing their own evidence in the form of diffs, and possibly checking each other's work. The scheduling editor only has to schedule checked suggestions, and can default to randomly choosing an article if there are no checked suggestions. - Evad37 [talk] 02:23, 21 July 2015 (UTC)

None of this is necessary if we don't have sufficient editors interested in selecting and leading improvement of articles. At the moment, my straw poll indicates we have enough interest to cover less than 10 of the 52 weeks in a year. No sense creating a hurdle (of any size) if no one is interested in clearing it. ~Kvng (talk) 15:01, 21 July 2015 (UTC)

I'll declare my !vote now for supporting #2. QPQ would be interesting, but simpler is probably better given the current state / level of activity of the TAFI project. Perhaps it will be an idea to revisit sometime in the future. - Evad37 [talk] 15:40, 21 July 2015 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Consensus

Let's evaluate the consensus:

Reducing it to one article: Y

#1: 2 votes

#2: 4 votes

#3: 2 votes

#4: 0 votes

#5: 0 votes

Unless anyone changes their vote, I guess #2 is the way to go, with #1 and #3 if it fails? Esquivalience ^t 19:47, 21 July 2015 (UTC)

• When are we going to actually do some voting for the next few articles? Qwertyxp2000 (talk | contribs) 04:52, 27 July 2015 (UTC)
  • ... we're not. Per the discussions above, which Esquivalience has summarised here (and no-one has disputed or challenged it or changed their !vote in the 6 days since then), "#2 is the way to go" (random choosing) - Evad37 [talk] 08:43, 27 July 2015 (UTC)
    • At this point, per all of the above, it appears that project voting will only occur on the Nominations page. North America¹⁰⁰⁰ 08:49, 27 July 2015 (UTC)

Straw poll

The Quid pro quo proposal assumes that we will have editors eager to choose articles for improvement. Perhaps we should take a straw poll and see how much interest their actually is. If we can consistently get one editor to commit to contributing improvements to each TAFI article, it would be a significant kick to the project compared to our current level of activity.

Please add yourself to the list below if you are interested in choosing articles and can commit to working on it yourself and also encourage others to work on it. Indicate how frequently you're realistically interested in making such a commitment.

• Twice per year ~Kvng (talk) 22:12, 20 July 2015 (UTC)
• Once every 3-5 months. Esquivalience ^t 02:42, 21 July 2015 (UTC)
• Over the holidays and May-August would be my most realistic options since I am currently going to college. - Presidentman talk · contribs (Talkback) 12:52, 21 July 2015 (UTC)
• I'd do it a couple of times per year, maybe more often. valereee (talk) 14:06, 22 July 2015 (UTC)
• Interest in choosing articles for improvement? Well yeh, I will be choosing some articles, but only in my spare time. It will be any time of the year, excepting November, which has my NCEA externals, rather equivelent to SATS tests. Qwertyxp2000 (talk | contribs) 20:41, 22 July 2015 (UTC)