Wikipedia talk:Vital articles/Level/5/People/Archive 10

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Archive 10

Comedian removals

A few months ago, I did a cleanup/purge of television hosts, which was bloated in favor of Americans, Brits and Australians. Now I must do the same with comedians. _pbp 22:57, 19 November 2024 (UTC)

Eliminate film/TV/standup distinction

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There are just too many artists who transcend those distinctions for them to be meaningful. Examples:

• Bob Newhart is listed under standup even though he had several television shows
• Chevy Chase, Chris Rock and Will Ferrell (and others) are listed under films even though they were also SNL cast members
• Rodney Dangerfield is listed under films despite having a long standup career

Support

1. _pbp 22:57, 19 November 2024 (UTC)
2. Support, it's arbitrary and doesn't exist on Level 4. Makkool (talk) 13:54, 20 November 2024 (UTC)
3. Does feel rather arbitrary Questions? four Olifanofmrtennant (she/her) 14:56, 21 November 2024 (UTC)
4. Per nomGeogSage ^{(⚔Chat?⚔)} 03:52, 30 November 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

1. Oppose mainly because a section with 203 articles is large and unwieldy and generally inaccessible to editors and casual readers alike. This same problem exists in the music section (many of the artists listed under Rock such as The Beatles  3 also have Pop specified as a genre and vice versa, many of the artists listed under Hip Hop/Rap can be listed either under Pop or R&B such as Drake who has all 3 listed as genres etc.) but I think people don't mind those subdivisions because the alternative would be a massive blob. The same problem on a smaller scale happens here. That being said, I do think the classification was done poorly e.g. I would put Rodney Dangerfield in the standup category. However, I find 80% of these classifications accurate as to the main cause of their vitality. We make judgment calls everywhere else on VA5, I don't see why we can't here. Aurangzebra (talk) 09:08, 21 November 2024 (UTC)

   1. 203 comedians at VA5 is way too many; right size would be about half that
   2. There are other ways to organize comedians other than standup/TV/movies, such as by nationality or time period.

   _pbp 14:03, 21 November 2024 (UTC)

Discussion

• This got four supporting votes, so it's going to pass. What should follow? Maybe we should decide on some new categorisation? We shouldn't lump them all together, like Aurangzebra said. I'll suggest regions like in the film actors section: Africa, Americas (with US/Canada separated from Latin America), Asia, Europe and Oceania. Makkool (talk) 08:37, 10 December 2024 (UTC)

  I support grouping by region. I can make the change in the coming days. _pbp 15:16, 14 December 2024 (UTC)

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Remove Carrot Top

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IDK if this guy was ever an A-lister _pbp 22:57, 19 November 2024 (UTC)

Support

1. _pbp 22:57, 19 November 2024 (UTC)
2. per nom. Makkool (talk) 13:54, 20 November 2024 (UTC)
3. nom. Questions? four Olifanofmrtennant (she/her) 04:41, 22 November 2024 (UTC)
4. Per nomGeogSage ^{(⚔Chat?⚔)} 03:52, 30 November 2024 (UTC)
5. TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 22:42, 11 December 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

1. Weak oppose, he has a lot more interwikis than anyone else on this list and anecdotally he's the only one I've heard of. Kevinishere15 (talk) 20:53, 20 November 2024 (UTC)
2. Weak oppose per kevinishere. Internationally known as evidenced by interwikis and was a frequent reference in a bunch of TV shows and movies for his distinct look and brand of comedy. Aurangzebra (talk) 01:36, 7 December 2024 (UTC)

Discussion

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Remove Irwin Corey

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Anybody ever heard of this guy? Due to being blacklisted, he was in obscurity. < 20 interwikis _pbp 22:57, 19 November 2024 (UTC)

Support

1. _pbp 22:57, 19 November 2024 (UTC)
2. Doesn't seem to have left a lasting impact Iostn (talk) 07:46, 20 November 2024 (UTC)
3. per nom. Makkool (talk) 13:54, 20 November 2024 (UTC)
4. per nom. Kevinishere15 (talk) 04:36, 21 November 2024 (UTC)
5. I question how some of these people even made it on to the list. Questions? four Olifanofmrtennant (she/her) 04:41, 22 November 2024 (UTC)
6. Per nomGeogSage ^{(⚔Chat?⚔)} 03:52, 30 November 2024 (UTC)
7. per nom Aurangzebra (talk) 01:36, 7 December 2024 (UTC)

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Remove Ken Dodd

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Anybody ever heard of this guy? < 20 interwikis _pbp 22:57, 19 November 2024 (UTC)

Support

1. _pbp 22:57, 19 November 2024 (UTC)
2. per nom. Makkool (talk) 13:54, 20 November 2024 (UTC)
3. per nom. Kevinishere15 (talk) 04:36, 21 November 2024 (UTC)
4. per nom Questions? four Olifanofmrtennant (she/her) 04:41, 22 November 2024 (UTC)
5. Per nomGeogSage ^{(⚔Chat?⚔)} 03:52, 30 November 2024 (UTC)
6. per nom Aurangzebra (talk) 01:36, 7 December 2024 (UTC)

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Remove Alan King

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Anybody ever heard of this guy? < 20 interwikis _pbp 22:57, 19 November 2024 (UTC)

Support

1. _pbp 22:57, 19 November 2024 (UTC)
2. per nom. Makkool (talk) 13:54, 20 November 2024 (UTC)
3. per nom. Kevinishere15 (talk) 04:36, 21 November 2024 (UTC)
4. Per nomGeogSage ^{(⚔Chat?⚔)} 03:52, 30 November 2024 (UTC)
5. per nom Aurangzebra (talk) 01:36, 7 December 2024 (UTC)

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Remove Max Miller (comedian)

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Anybody ever heard of this guy? < 10 interwikis. _pbp 22:57, 19 November 2024 (UTC)

Support

1. _pbp 22:57, 19 November 2024 (UTC)
2. Per nomGeogSage ^{(⚔Chat?⚔)} 03:52, 30 November 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

1. Seems to have been pretty important for his time Iostn (talk) 07:46, 20 November 2024 (UTC)
2. "considered to be one of the greatest stand-up comedians of his generation", reduces US bias Makkool (talk) 13:54, 20 November 2024 (UTC)
3. Weak oppose per above. Kevinishere15 (talk) 04:42, 21 November 2024 (UTC)
4. per above Aurangzebra (talk) 01:36, 7 December 2024 (UTC)

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Remove Nichols and May

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Mike Nichols and Elaine May are both already listed (Nichols as a director, May as a comedian). The comedy pairing has TWO interwikis. May has 31, Nichols has 55. This is one of the instances where the individuals are more notable than the pairing. _pbp 22:57, 19 November 2024 (UTC)

Support

1. _pbp 22:57, 19 November 2024 (UTC)
2. Probably redundant Iostn (talk) 07:46, 20 November 2024 (UTC)
3. per nom. Makkool (talk) 13:54, 20 November 2024 (UTC)
4. per nom. Kevinishere15 (talk) 04:36, 21 November 2024 (UTC)
5. Per nomGeogSage ^{(⚔Chat?⚔)} 03:52, 30 November 2024 (UTC)
6. per nom Aurangzebra (talk) 01:36, 7 December 2024 (UTC)

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Remove Patrice O'Neal

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Anybody ever heard of this guy? < 15 interwikis. Only released a single album _pbp 22:57, 19 November 2024 (UTC)

Support

1. _pbp 22:57, 19 November 2024 (UTC)
2. Iostn (talk) 07:46, 20 November 2024 (UTC)
3. per nom. Makkool (talk) 13:54, 20 November 2024 (UTC)
4. per nom. Kevinishere15 (talk) 04:36, 21 November 2024 (UTC)
5. Per nomGeogSage ^{(⚔Chat?⚔)} 03:52, 30 November 2024 (UTC)
6. Surprisingly do know this guy because he was one of the warehouse guys on The Office but definitely not vital. Aurangzebra (talk) 01:36, 7 December 2024 (UTC)

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Remove Roy Rene

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Just two interwikis. TWO. _pbp 22:57, 19 November 2024 (UTC)

Support

1. _pbp 22:57, 19 November 2024 (UTC)
2. Only really relevant in Australia Iostn (talk) 07:46, 20 November 2024 (UTC)
3. per nom. Makkool (talk) 13:54, 20 November 2024 (UTC)
4. per nom. Kevinishere15 (talk) 04:36, 21 November 2024 (UTC)
5. Per nomGeogSage ^{(⚔Chat?⚔)} 03:52, 30 November 2024 (UTC)
6. Not sure how we are doing on Australian comedy representation but this is probably not the right person for it regardless Aurangzebra (talk) 01:36, 7 December 2024 (UTC)

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Remove Mort Sahl

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Anybody ever heard of this guy? < 20 interwikis _pbp 22:57, 19 November 2024 (UTC)

Support

1. _pbp 22:57, 19 November 2024 (UTC)
2. per nom. Makkool (talk) 13:54, 20 November 2024 (UTC)
3. per nom. Kevinishere15 (talk) 04:36, 21 November 2024 (UTC)
4. Per nomGeogSage ^{(⚔Chat?⚔)} 03:52, 30 November 2024 (UTC)

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Remove Jerry Van Dyke

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Primarily had supporting roles _pbp 22:57, 19 November 2024 (UTC)

Support

1. _pbp 22:57, 19 November 2024 (UTC)
2. per nom. Makkool (talk) 13:54, 20 November 2024 (UTC)
3. per nom. Kevinishere15 (talk) 04:36, 21 November 2024 (UTC)
4. Per nomGeogSage ^{(⚔Chat?⚔)} 03:52, 30 November 2024 (UTC)
5. per nom Aurangzebra (talk) 01:36, 7 December 2024 (UTC)

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Remove George Wallace (Australian comedian)

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Just two interwikis. TWO. _pbp 22:57, 19 November 2024 (UTC)

Support

1. _pbp 22:57, 19 November 2024 (UTC)
2. Also note that pageviews are very low Iostn (talk) 07:46, 20 November 2024 (UTC)
3. per nom. Makkool (talk) 13:54, 20 November 2024 (UTC)
4. per nom. Kevinishere15 (talk) 04:36, 21 November 2024 (UTC)
5. Per nomGeogSage ^{(⚔Chat?⚔)} 03:52, 30 November 2024 (UTC)
6. per nom Aurangzebra (talk) 01:36, 7 December 2024 (UTC)

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Remove Henny Youngman

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"Take my wife, please" might be VA5 but he himself...IDK. _pbp 22:57, 19 November 2024 (UTC)

Support

1. _pbp 22:57, 19 November 2024 (UTC)
2. per nom. Makkool (talk) 13:54, 20 November 2024 (UTC)
3. per nom. Kevinishere15 (talk) 04:36, 21 November 2024 (UTC)
4. Per nomGeogSage ^{(⚔Chat?⚔)} 03:52, 30 November 2024 (UTC)
5. One-liner comedy has definitely not stood the test of time. Aurangzebra (talk) 01:36, 7 December 2024 (UTC)

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Remove Will Hay

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Anybody ever heard of this guy? < 20 interwikis _pbp 22:57, 19 November 2024 (UTC)

Support

1. _pbp 22:57, 19 November 2024 (UTC)
2. per nom. Makkool (talk) 13:54, 20 November 2024 (UTC)
3. per nom. Kevinishere15 (talk) 04:36, 21 November 2024 (UTC)
4. Only a little over 3000 page views Questions? four Olifanofmrtennant (she/her) 23:18, 22 November 2024 (UTC)
5. Per nomGeogSage ^{(⚔Chat?⚔)} 03:52, 30 November 2024 (UTC)
6. per nom Aurangzebra (talk) 01:36, 7 December 2024 (UTC)

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Remove Fred Allen

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If we're removing Chevy Chase, IDK how he survives. 20 interwikis _pbp 22:57, 19 November 2024 (UTC)

Support

1. _pbp 22:57, 19 November 2024 (UTC)
2. per nom. Makkool (talk) 13:54, 20 November 2024 (UTC)
3. per nom. Kevinishere15 (talk) 04:36, 21 November 2024 (UTC)
4. Per nomGeogSage ^{(⚔Chat?⚔)} 03:52, 30 November 2024 (UTC)

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Remove Arthur Askey

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Anybody ever heard of this guy? < 10 interwikis _pbp 22:57, 19 November 2024 (UTC)

Support

1. _pbp 22:57, 19 November 2024 (UTC)
2. Iostn (talk) 07:46, 20 November 2024 (UTC)
3. per nom. Makkool (talk) 13:54, 20 November 2024 (UTC)
4. per nom. Kevinishere15 (talk) 04:36, 21 November 2024 (UTC)
5. Per nomGeogSage ^{(⚔Chat?⚔)} 03:52, 30 November 2024 (UTC)
6. per nom Aurangzebra (talk) 01:36, 7 December 2024 (UTC)

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Remove Imogene Coca

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< 20 interwikis _pbp 22:57, 19 November 2024 (UTC)

Support

1. _pbp 22:57, 19 November 2024 (UTC)
2. per nom. Makkool (talk) 13:54, 20 November 2024 (UTC)
3. per nom. Kevinishere15 (talk) 04:36, 21 November 2024 (UTC)
4. Per nomGeogSage ^{(⚔Chat?⚔)} 03:52, 30 November 2024 (UTC)

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Remove Tommy Cooper

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20 interwikis _pbp 22:57, 19 November 2024 (UTC)

Support

1. _pbp 22:57, 19 November 2024 (UTC)
2. Per nomGeogSage ^{(⚔Chat?⚔)} 03:52, 30 November 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

1. Lasting (and current) influence, as seen under "legacy and honours" Iostn (talk) 07:46, 20 November 2024 (UTC)
2. per above, reduces US bias Makkool (talk) 13:54, 20 November 2024 (UTC)
3. Per above. Kevinishere15 (talk) 04:43, 21 November 2024 (UTC)

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Remove Charles Correll

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Amos 'n' Andy is VA5 but IDK if he is. < 10 interwikis _pbp 22:57, 19 November 2024 (UTC)

Support

1. _pbp 22:57, 19 November 2024 (UTC)
2. Iostn (talk) 07:46, 20 November 2024 (UTC)
3. per nom. Makkool (talk) 13:54, 20 November 2024 (UTC)
4. per nom. Kevinishere15 (talk) 04:36, 21 November 2024 (UTC)
5. Per nomGeogSage ^{(⚔Chat?⚔)} 03:52, 30 November 2024 (UTC)

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Remove Freeman Gosden

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Amos 'n' Andy is VA5 but IDK if he is. < 10 interwikis _pbp 22:57, 19 November 2024 (UTC)

Support

1. _pbp 22:57, 19 November 2024 (UTC)
2. Iostn (talk) 07:46, 20 November 2024 (UTC)
3. per nom. Makkool (talk) 13:54, 20 November 2024 (UTC)
4. per nom. Kevinishere15 (talk) 04:36, 21 November 2024 (UTC)
5. Per nomGeogSage ^{(⚔Chat?⚔)} 03:52, 30 November 2024 (UTC)

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Remove Dashan

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< 10 interwikis _pbp 22:57, 19 November 2024 (UTC)

Support

1. _pbp 22:57, 19 November 2024 (UTC)
2. Per nomGeogSage ^{(⚔Chat?⚔)} 03:52, 30 November 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

1. Seems important re: Chinese comedy Iostn (talk) 07:46, 20 November 2024 (UTC)
2. per above, pioneer of stand-up in China Makkool (talk) 13:54, 20 November 2024 (UTC)
3. Oppose per above. Kevinishere15 (talk) 04:41, 21 November 2024 (UTC)

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Remove Bob Crane

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20 interwikis _pbp 22:57, 19 November 2024 (UTC)

Support

1. _pbp 22:57, 19 November 2024 (UTC)
2. per nom. Makkool (talk) 13:54, 20 November 2024 (UTC)
3. per nom. Kevinishere15 (talk) 04:36, 21 November 2024 (UTC)
4. Per nomGeogSage ^{(⚔Chat?⚔)} 03:52, 30 November 2024 (UTC)

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Remove Fry and Laurie

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Fry and Laurie are themselves listed. The pairing only has 2 interwikis, and Laurie especially is known for independent work rather than the pairiing. _pbp 22:57, 19 November 2024 (UTC)

Support

1. _pbp 22:57, 19 November 2024 (UTC)
2. Redundant Iostn (talk) 07:46, 20 November 2024 (UTC)
3. per nom. Makkool (talk) 13:54, 20 November 2024 (UTC)
4. per nom. Kevinishere15 (talk) 04:36, 21 November 2024 (UTC)
5. Per nomGeogSage ^{(⚔Chat?⚔)} 03:52, 30 November 2024 (UTC)

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Remove Rich Little

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10 interwikis _pbp 22:57, 19 November 2024 (UTC)

Support

1. _pbp 22:57, 19 November 2024 (UTC)
2. per nom. Makkool (talk) 13:54, 20 November 2024 (UTC)
3. per nom. Kevinishere15 (talk) 04:36, 21 November 2024 (UTC)
4. Per nomGeogSage ^{(⚔Chat?⚔)} 03:52, 30 November 2024 (UTC)

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Remove Dick Martin

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Not independently notable of Rowan & Martin's Laugh-In, already at VA5 _pbp 22:57, 19 November 2024 (UTC)

Support

1. _pbp 22:57, 19 November 2024 (UTC)
2. per nom. Makkool (talk) 13:54, 20 November 2024 (UTC)
3. per nom. Kevinishere15 (talk) 04:36, 21 November 2024 (UTC)
4. Per nomGeogSage ^{(⚔Chat?⚔)} 03:52, 30 November 2024 (UTC)

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Remove Dan Rowan

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Not independently notable of Rowan & Martin's Laugh-In, already at VA5 _pbp 22:57, 19 November 2024 (UTC)

Support

1. _pbp 22:57, 19 November 2024 (UTC)
2. per nom. Makkool (talk) 13:54, 20 November 2024 (UTC)
3. per nom. Kevinishere15 (talk) 04:36, 21 November 2024 (UTC)
4. Per nomGeogSage ^{(⚔Chat?⚔)} 03:52, 30 November 2024 (UTC)

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Remove Garry McDonald

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< 10 interwikis _pbp 22:57, 19 November 2024 (UTC)

Support

1. _pbp 22:57, 19 November 2024 (UTC)
2. per nom. Makkool (talk) 13:54, 20 November 2024 (UTC)
3. per nom. Kevinishere15 (talk) 04:36, 21 November 2024 (UTC)
4. Per nomGeogSage ^{(⚔Chat?⚔)} 03:52, 30 November 2024 (UTC)

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Remove Morecambe and Wise

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Just three interwikis _pbp 22:57, 19 November 2024 (UTC)

Support

1. _pbp 22:57, 19 November 2024 (UTC)
2. Per nomGeogSage ^{(⚔Chat?⚔)} 03:52, 30 November 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

1. Highly influential in the UK, and by the looks of it the low number of interwikis is due to many Wikipedias having articles on them as individuals instead: Eric Morecambe and Ernie Wise both have more, and I don't think they would be individually vital on their own Iostn (talk) 07:46, 20 November 2024 (UTC)

   Wise has 10 interwikis and Morecambe 16, neither of which is much for a celeb _pbp 20:32, 21 November 2024 (UTC)

2. per above, "the best loved British double-act" Makkool (talk) 13:54, 20 November 2024 (UTC)
3. Weak oppose. Kevinishere15 (talk) 04:40, 21 November 2024 (UTC)

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Remove Freddie Prinze

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<20 interwikis _pbp 22:57, 19 November 2024 (UTC)

Support

1. _pbp 22:57, 19 November 2024 (UTC)
2. per nom. Makkool (talk) 13:54, 20 November 2024 (UTC)
3. per nom. Kevinishere15 (talk) 04:36, 21 November 2024 (UTC)
4. Per nomGeogSage ^{(⚔Chat?⚔)} 03:52, 30 November 2024 (UTC)

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Remove Michael Richards

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Mostly known as a supporting actor. His most famous appearances were on Seinfeld, which is VA5, as are Jerry Seinfeld and Julia Louis-Dreyfus. _pbp 22:57, 19 November 2024 (UTC)

Support

1. _pbp 22:57, 19 November 2024 (UTC)
2. per nom. Makkool (talk) 13:54, 20 November 2024 (UTC)
3. per nom. Kevinishere15 (talk) 04:36, 21 November 2024 (UTC)
4. weak support Questions? four Olifanofmrtennant (she/her) 04:41, 22 November 2024 (UTC)
5. Per nomGeogSage ^{(⚔Chat?⚔)} 03:52, 30 November 2024 (UTC)

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Remove Harry Secombe

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10 interwikis _pbp 22:57, 19 November 2024 (UTC)

Support

1. _pbp 22:57, 19 November 2024 (UTC)
2. per nom. Makkool (talk) 13:54, 20 November 2024 (UTC)
3. per nom. Kevinishere15 (talk) 04:36, 21 November 2024 (UTC)
4. Per nomGeogSage ^{(⚔Chat?⚔)} 03:52, 30 November 2024 (UTC)

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Remove Danny Thomas

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Exactly 20 interwikis _pbp 22:57, 19 November 2024 (UTC)

Support

1. _pbp 22:57, 19 November 2024 (UTC)
2. per nom. Makkool (talk) 13:54, 20 November 2024 (UTC)
3. per nom. Kevinishere15 (talk) 04:36, 21 November 2024 (UTC)
4. Per nomGeogSage ^{(⚔Chat?⚔)} 03:52, 30 November 2024 (UTC)

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Remove Victoria Wood

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<20 interwikis _pbp 22:57, 19 November 2024 (UTC)

Support

1. _pbp 22:57, 19 November 2024 (UTC)
2. per nom. Makkool (talk) 13:54, 20 November 2024 (UTC)
3. per nom. Kevinishere15 (talk) 04:36, 21 November 2024 (UTC)
4. Per nomGeogSage ^{(⚔Chat?⚔)} 03:52, 30 November 2024 (UTC)

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Add Agnez Mo  5

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I know we have been on a remove celebrities streak recently (which I am fine with), but we can make room for Mo, who is arguably the biggest pop star in the world's fourth-largest country. See, for example, List of awards and nominations received by Agnez Mo

Support

1. As nom. To non English language musicians. Tabu Makiadi (talk) 22:50, 16 November 2024 (UTC)
2. Makes sense Iostn (talk) 22:15, 22 November 2024 (UTC)
3. per nom. QuicoleJR (talk) 13:32, 27 November 2024 (UTC)
4. Kevinishere15 (talk) 18:42, 5 December 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

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Remove Maureen Dowd

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NYT columnist. Seems to be best known for covering the Clinton-Lewinsky scandal, but the article does not mention her. 6 interwikis.

Support

1. As nominator. Tabu Makiadi (talk) 05:50, 16 November 2024 (UTC)
2. That is a good point. Sahaib (talk) 07:08, 16 November 2024 (UTC)
3. Swap with Matt Drudge Makkool (talk) 18:41, 16 November 2024 (UTC)
4. Iostn (talk) 22:15, 22 November 2024 (UTC)
5. Support, Writers & Journalists is over quota and we should probably prioritize recent figures. -- Zar2gar1 (talk) 22:31, 23 November 2024 (UTC)
6. TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 22:32, 11 December 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discussion

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Swap Florence La Badie with Rachel McAdams

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Plenty of more notable Canadian actresses. Proposing a swap with Rachel McAdams so that a modern Canadian actress can be added, which, as far as I'm aware, we don't have yet.

Support

1. As nom. B3251_(talk) 03:59, 10 July 2024 (UTC)
2. Support remove for now Makkool (talk) 11:31, 13 July 2024 (UTC)
3. --Thi (talk) 20:55, 22 September 2024 (UTC)
4. -TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 22:37, 30 November 2024 (UTC)
5. Support swap, let's go ahead and push this across the finish line. -- Zar2gar1 (talk) 04:13, 9 December 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

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Remove István Fekete

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Obscure Hungarian children's author, article does not make him seem vital enough. Writers is over quota as well.

Support

1. As nom. QuicoleJR (talk) 13:10, 29 July 2024 (UTC)
2. Per nom. Magda Szabó, Antal Szerb, and Sándor Márai are better bets to join Imre Kertész  5 and Jókai as far as Hungarian writers go. J947 ‡ ^edits 09:52, 30 July 2024 (UTC)
3. Changing my vote to support removal. Makkool (talk) 15:54, 6 October 2024 (UTC)
4. Support, let's go ahead and push this one across the finish line. -- Zar2gar1 (talk) 04:13, 9 December 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

His book Vuk is very popular and has been translated to many languages. It might be considered an enduring classic only in its origin country, but I would still keep this to lessen Western European and US bias. Makkool (talk) 18:19, 29 July 2024 (UTC)

Neutral

Discuss

• Might be worth noting that several Hungarian sources describe Fekete as the second most widely-read Hungarian author, after Mór Jókai  5.[1][2][3][4] --Grnrchst (talk) 15:05, 29 July 2024 (UTC)

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Remove Joel Osteen  5

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Doesn't seem any more vital to me than Rick Warren _pbp 19:45, 15 September 2024 (UTC)

Support

1. _pbp 18:34, 15 September 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

1. Senior pastor of one of the largest megachurches in the US, gets more attendance than Rick Warren's church. "One of the more prominent figures associated with prosperity theology", from the article. Makkool (talk) 11:23, 17 September 2024 (UTC)

   We have both Osteen and Oral Roberts representing prosperity gospel. If we keep Osteen, we should maybe consider removing Roberts _pbp 18:38, 17 September 2024 (UTC)

   If prosperity gospel should be represented by only one person, then Roberts should definitely stay. He is a too foundational figure to be not listed. My view is Osteen would be the best to represent a contemporary televangelist. Makkool (talk) 11:49, 18 September 2024 (UTC)

2. Why only one.-TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 05:55, 2 December 2024 (UTC)
3. Per makkool. Kevinishere15 (talk) 18:43, 5 December 2024 (UTC)

Discussion

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Add Lesya Ukrainka  5

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One writer addition for a change. The article calls her "one of Ukrainian literature's foremost writers"

Support

1. As nom. Makkool (talk) 18:48, 23 October 2024 (UTC)
2. Seems important enough. 75 interwikis, High-Importance to WikiProject Russia and Top-Importance to WikiProject Ukraine. QuicoleJR (talk) 19:47, 24 October 2024 (UTC)
3. Iostn (talk) 20:00, 14 November 2024 (UTC)
4. Per nominator. Tabu Makiadi (talk) 17:55, 10 December 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

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Add Norman Granz

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Founder of Verve Records and manager of Ella Fitzgerald  4.

Support

1. SailorGardevoir (talk) 11:10, 7 March 2024 (UTC)
2. Interstellarity (talk) 13:01, 27 June 2024 (UTC)
3. "the most successful impresario in the history of jazz" Makkool (talk) 09:44, 21 July 2024 (UTC)
4. Sure, musicians are still within the +/- 2% cushion, and jazz doesn't always get enough play. -- Zar2gar1 (talk) 22:31, 23 November 2024 (UTC)
5. per nom Aurangzebra (talk) 21:27, 11 December 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

1. I've been away for a few months, but I am going to step back here and question why a founder of a non-vital label is that important. At first I put this question in the oppose section. Then, I saw Berry Gordy is vital and Motown isn't. My question is whether we really need a behind the scenes guy rather than a jazz artist that might need a push over the hump.-TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 22:28, 30 November 2024 (UTC)

   I don't participate on the People list as much; I just saw one section still needs brainstorming and thought I'd help vote & close in the meantime.

   You raise a good point though. Maybe the best thing would be to propose another jazz musician here and/or some record labels under Companies? It might also convince some people if you mention this proposal in the new one. -- Zar2gar1 (talk) 19:30, 8 December 2024 (UTC)

   Granz absolutely deserves a spot here. His Jazz at the Philharmonic recordings are iconic and some of his other recordings such as Art Tatum  5's The Art Tatum - Ben Webster Quartet are considered part of the 'core collection' of essential recordings by The Penguin Guide to Jazz. That being said, I have noticed that jazz is missing a few musicians I would consider VA5. I haven't proposed any because I'm not really sure who I'd want to replace them with and I don't want to bloat musicians any further. But two of my top contenders would be:

   1) Johnny Hodges - Just as notable as Benny Carter  5 and Ben Webster  5 with more interwikis than either of them. Also got his fame from being in Duke Ellington  4's orchestra with an extremely prolific solo career as well. Top-Importance on Wikiproject Jazz.

   2) Gene Krupa - We underrepresent instrumentalists on our musicians list in general, but we especially underrepresent drummers, some of whom are household names but because they aren't the front of the band, we tend to ignore them. We do list arguably the great jazz drummer of all time, Buddy Rich  5, but Krupa is iconic enough in his own right to warrant a spot here. Referred to as "the founding father of modern drumset playing". Top-importance in Wikiproject Jazz. Aurangzebra (talk) 22:01, 11 December 2024 (UTC)

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Remove Donald Barthelme

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The Writers page is still well over the quota, so some cuts are needed. Only a few of his works have articles, and none of those articles have any interwikis. This author has no sourced claim to any major lasting influence, and he only won a few awards, which we don't list every winner of. I do not see any reason to keep him on the list.

Support

1. As nom. QuicoleJR (talk) 14:10, 20 October 2024 (UTC)
2. Makkool (talk) 18:48, 23 October 2024 (UTC)
3. Deferring to nom on this one, section is over quota. -- Zar2gar1 (talk) 22:31, 23 November 2024 (UTC)
4. Per nominator. Tabu Makiadi (talk) 17:50, 10 December 2024 (UTC)
5. TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 22:26, 11 December 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Neutral

Discuss

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Remove some sports journalists and commentators

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As previously said: Writers and journalists are over quota. These people have pretty low pageviews and interwikis, and none of the articles assert much vitality

• Peter Gammons
• Jim Nantz
• Peter FitzSimons
• Jacqui Oatley
• Jim Rome
• Bert Sugar
• Sid Waddell
• Ray Warren

Support

1. As nominator. Tabu Makiadi (talk) 02:57, 4 December 2024 (UTC)
2. Just so long as you keep Grantland Rice at VA5 _pbp 06:43, 4 December 2024 (UTC)
3. I would be fine with no sports stuff, as I don't consider these things to be vital at all, so definitly agree. GeogSage ^{(⚔Chat?⚔)} 03:14, 4 December 2024 (UTC)
4. None of these seem vital. Kevinishere15 (talk) 19:03, 4 December 2024 (UTC)
5. Agree, I can see having a handful of sportscasters for some coverage, but we probably don't need 34. -- Zar2gar1 (talk) 04:13, 9 December 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

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Move Ch'oe Ch'i-wŏn

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Although we got a lot of reformers on here, their activities are at least tied to their religion. I don't think that's the cause for Ch'oe, especially since during the time he was active, he was a Confucianist, not a Buddhist. I prefer moving him to the politicians page, but since he was apparently a philosopher, I'll leave that option out as well. (We do have people in that page who were government officials.)

To politicians

1. SailorGardevoir (talk) 22:06, 14 May 2024 (UTC)

To philosophers

1. Support move to philosophers. I only skimmed the article, but sounds like he wrote rather than led a religious community, and his political programme seems more secular. It doesn't sound like he had much real political authority or success though (similar to Plato in Syracuse). -- Zar2gar1 (talk) 22:31, 23 November 2024 (UTC)
2. Makkool (talk) 23:18, 30 November 2024 (UTC)
3. Kevinishere15 (talk) 19:10, 4 December 2024 (UTC)

Keep

Discuss

• Whatever the outcome, the article definitely makes it sound like his Buddhism was just a late-life interest and incidental to his career. So he probably shouldn't be grouped under Buddhist religious figures. -- Zar2gar1 (talk) 22:31, 23 November 2024 (UTC)

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Add Willie O'Ree

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First black National Hockey League player. Although not the first person of color in the NHL, O'Ree is widely regarded as the "Jackie Robinson of hockey".

Would be added to Wikipedia:Vital articles/Level/5/People/Sports figures#Wingers.

Support

1. As nom. B3251_(talk) 21:43, 8 July 2024 (UTC)
2. Sure, we still have a little cushion in sports figures, and I like hockey. -- Zar2gar1 (talk) 22:31, 23 November 2024 (UTC)
3. -TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 22:36, 30 November 2024 (UTC)
4. Makkool (talk) 23:18, 30 November 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

1. Oppose, Larry Kwong isn't listed who is at a similar level of notability. Sahaib (talk) 21:23, 3 December 2024 (UTC)

Discuss

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New religious movement figures cleanup

Remove Joseph Kibweteere

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Probably listed because he was leader of the Movement for the Restoration of the Ten Commandments of God, responsible for one of the largest ever mass suicides, but he doesn't seem to be that vital in his own right, outside of the group. I don't even know if the group itself would be vital.

Support

1. As nom Iostn (talk) 10:27, 22 September 2024 (UTC)
2. --Thi (talk) 21:18, 22 September 2024 (UTC)
3. per nom. starship.paint (RUN) 12:55, 3 October 2024 (UTC)
4. Makkool (talk) 20:43, 28 October 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

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Swap Stephen McNallen for Sveinbjörn Beinteinsson

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Stephen McNallen is an influential figure in white supremacist Norse neopaganism, which is societally marginal and not even dominant among white supremacists. Sveinbjoern founded the Ásatrúarfélagið, which is the largest neopagan religious movement in the world in proportion to the number of followers in its country of origin, with over 1% of the Icelandic population being Asatru, which I think easily places him among the most influential Neopagan religious figures.

Support

1. As nom Iostn (talk) 10:27, 22 September 2024 (UTC)
2. Support swap or removal Makkool (talk) 20:43, 28 October 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Mixed

1. Support removal, oppose addition. Ásatrúarfélagið has under 6000 followers. Kevinishere15 (talk) 21:02, 24 September 2024 (UTC)

   That's over 1% of the Icelandic population, which makes it the only country in the world where a form of neopaganism is practiced by a significant proportion of the population. In addition, both of the other neopagan figures listed are Wiccan, and removing alone would leave the list without any form of reconstructionist religion, which is arguably one of the most significant recent religious phenomena. The Icelandic Asatru Association is also more broadly influential over Heathenry (new religious movement)  5 as a whole, regardless of the low population of Iceland itself limiting its membership numbers. Iostn (talk) 19:17, 25 September 2024 (UTC)

2. Support removal, neutral on addition. I think all the points given are actually a stronger argument for adding Ásatrúarfélagið to Religion than its founder. -- Zar2gar1 (talk) 01:36, 15 December 2024 (UTC)

Discuss

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Swap Yahweh ben Yahweh for Black Hebrew Israelites

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An obscure figures compared to the movement he represented, which isn't listed. Add Black Hebrew Israelites to "new religious movements" under philosophy and religion.

Support

1. As nom Iostn (talk) 10:27, 22 September 2024 (UTC)
2. Per nom Makkool (talk) 20:43, 28 October 2024 (UTC)
3. Per nom. Kevinishere15 (talk) 18:46, 5 December 2024 (UTC)
4. Mostly ambivalent, but let's go ahead and push this one over the finish line. -- Zar2gar1 (talk) 01:36, 15 December 2024 (UTC)

Oppose

Discuss

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