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The result was delete. qedk (t 桜 c) 11:32, 12 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

No Limite 5

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I cannot find any evidence that this TV series ever took place, it was most likely cancelled before the first episode. Cardiffbear88 (talk) 23:48, 4 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete Neither No Limite nor pt:No Limite say there was a fifth season, and all links are dead except [1], which only talks of a hypothetical "next" season. If there was anything concrete to say about the "next" season, it should be added to the main article. – sgeureka ^t•c 09:39, 7 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Delete. I agree with the above. I couldn't find any pt language sources saying otherwise. PK650 (talk) 22:28, 9 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. For userfication ask at WP:REFUND. Sandstein 19:15, 12 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Comparison of single-board computers

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There's no clear criteria of inclusion here. "Single-board computer" is very broad, tons of products. WP is not Consumer Reports. Poorly referenced; this will also never be complete or current. Many non-notable products in the list. Mikeblas (talk) 22:51, 4 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

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Move to userspace, cleanup, and then move back: In concept, it is sound.. But it needs very significant cleanup. Would it be OK for me to move it to my userspace and clean up from there? moonythedwarf (Braden N.) 00:10, 5 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Delete Clear violation of Wikipedia is not a directory. If we trim this back to only the notable single-board computers, there likely won't be enough here to justify the page. - MrOllie (talk) 16:29, 5 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
- I think that, for notable board (families) a referenced and well-defined section or article is great. Check out Raspberry_Pi#Specifications for example. -- Mikeblas (talk) 17:50, 5 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was merge to Renesas Electronics. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 14:55, 12 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

RX microcontroller family

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The only sources are from the company's website, and the article does not comply with NPOV. I tried salvaging it, but I think it's a lost cause. King of Scorpions 22:41, 4 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

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Merge to Renesas Electronics per WP:PRODUCT. There is plenty of space in the company article for summary information about their various products. Some such as their RA range have received quite a bit of independent coverage (e.g. [2], [3]), but I'm not seeing enough coverage for this RX family to justify a separate article.----Pontificalibus 08:27, 5 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Merge to Renesas Electronics where it is mentioned. I was unable to find much independent sourcing for this line of microcontrollers. Basic facts about the RX line are verifiable, hence a selective merge to Renesas Electronics is a reasonable alternative to deletion per our policy WP:ATD. --{{u|Mark viking}} {Talk} 01:48, 9 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. 78.26 _{(spin me / revolutions)} 16:00, 12 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Communication audit

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This reads like a class project. Everything about it is a red flag. In the end, it's WP:OR. Guy (help!) 22:21, 4 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

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comment "Communications audit" is a real thing, and so is "social media audit" (the apparent actual subject of the article as it is written, judging from the references). I get book hits on doing both. That said, the article may benefit from some WP:TNT. Mangoe (talk) 23:39, 4 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Delete See Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Information and communication technologies for development; this and other articles have been part of some sort of assignment that involves students writing essays and then pasting them into the article, resulting in bloated, nigh-unreadable piles of WP:OR and WP:synth. These topics seem to be notable, but the articles are currently unsalvageable in their current state. 💵Money💵emoji💵^{Talk💸Help out at CCI!} 12:34, 10 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was keep. (non-admin closure) NNADIGOODLUCK (Talk|Contribs) 22:09, 11 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Franciscan Sisters of Christian Charity

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Advertising. Fails WP:GNG The Banner talk 22:08, 4 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

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Keep Not really sure how an article about a religious order of nuns could be considered "advertising" (doubtful a WP article is a viable recuritment strategy), but they pass notabilithy guidelines through their existance as an official Catholic order, mention in various news articles, etc. If you feel the article could be trimmed, have at it, but really don't see a notability issue here. --ZimZalaBim ^talk 00:31, 5 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
- Trying to "sell" your retreats, healthcare facilities, schools and other work is also advertising/promotion. The Banner talk 01:58, 5 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  - Then work to cleanup the tone. Clearly this is notable. --ZimZalaBim ^talk 03:00, 5 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Keep. There are books about the congregation, of which the following seem to be the most important:[4][5][6][7]. There are quite a few others that do not look as independent[8]. With a history dating back to 1866 there's going to be a ton of periodical coverage too.Jahaza (talk) 01:52, 5 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Keep I cant see any merit in this nomination at all. Mccapra (talk) 06:42, 5 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Keep. Not advertising in the slightest. Religious orders are generally notable. -- Necrothesp (talk) 11:52, 5 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
- According to? The Banner talk 13:23, 5 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  - Common sense. And the fact you've provided no good reason for deletion. -- Necrothesp (talk) 14:26, 5 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    - Aha, the classic let-us-get-personal-reply. The Banner talk 19:15, 5 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
      - How is anything I've said personal? -- Necrothesp (talk) 10:35, 10 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  - And these dozens of news articles. --ZimZalaBim ^talk 18:24, 5 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    - Mostly about their healthcare facilities, schools and jubilees. And effectively not even a hundred hits. The Banner talk 19:18, 5 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
      - And just like that, you've affirmed their notablity. --ZimZalaBim ^talk 19:21, 5 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
        No, as they do not describe the congregation. The Banner talk 20:15, 5 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
        Whether or not you feel those sources provide helpful material to describe the Order is irrelevant. They establish "significant coverage in reliable sources that are independent of the subject". I fail to understand your stance on this article, and why deletion seems to be your default rather than working to improve it. --ZimZalaBim ^talk 02:11, 6 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Keep a religious order founded in the 1860s that still exists and runs major institutions is obviously notable, even though the article needs a lot of improvement.IceFishing (talk) 02:06, 6 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Keep -- The article is not wholly satisfactory in that it deals with mainly with the origins of the order, and then jumps at least 100 years to a brief allusion to the Internet. I agree that religious orders are generally notable. I would make an exception for those that are very small or short-lived, without at this point being sure where I would draw the line. Peterkingiron (talk) 15:06, 6 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was keep. Consensus that LASTING is met due to the ongoing changes that occurred from the crash Nosebagbear (talk) 21:51, 11 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Bell 525 Relentless crash

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Helicopter crashes are quite common and this was a test flight. WP:NOTNEWS. ...William, is the complaint department really on the roof? 21:06, 28 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete a prototype helicopter crashes during testing, hardly noteworthy or that unusual and not notable for stand-alone article. Already covered sufficiently in Bell 525 Relentless. MilborneOne (talk) 21:15, 28 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Comment I specifically took the details of the crash out of Bell 525 Relentless; please review if the detail remaining is still adequate. Cheers, Mliu92 (talk) 21:17, 28 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Keep this one has WP:LASTING coverage. 2017, 2018 and 2019 so WP:NOTNEWS is not the guideline for this article. Also because it was a prototype the ramifications of the crash and it's causes are notable. Wm335td (talk) 21:18, 28 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Comment I also wanted to add the NTSB made a recommendation to require FDR/CVR for prototype aircraft arising from this crash, so it could be kept as a precedent-setting crash. Cheers, Mliu92 (talk) 21:32, 28 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Please do. I find it notable. It passes our guidelines per my !vote. Wm335td (talk) 21:43, 28 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Keep - It does appear this accident resulted in changes to the way prototype flight tests are conducted, with FDR/CVR becoming mandatory. Regarding effects on Bell Helicopter and the aviation industry, Vertical Magazine called its story on the NTSB findings (in 2018, two years after the crash) one of its top 10 biggest stories of 2018. Also, a deep-dive 2018 story by Rotor & Wing International notes that this was a crash during development of the first commercial helicopter with a fly-by-wire FCS, and ties that to the NTSB's found causes (this may be worth adding into the article). If kept, it may be worth renaming to Bell 525 Relentless prototype crash since it is unlikely to be the only accident ever of this type, but appears (at least for now) to be the only fatal accident of a prototype. Shelbystripes (talk) 22:01, 28 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Keep - meets WP:GNG and has had a lasting effect on flight testing. I think that the assertion "it is only a prototype" is bogus, as most prototype crashes have some lasting effect, if only to "stop being stupid and never let that pile of P** fly ever again".--Petebutt (talk) 02:27, 29 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Keep - Definitely meets WP:GNG, and has had a lasting effect on flight testing. The details are important, but section was overwhelming the type article, hence this was a valid reason to spilt the information off to its own article. - BilCat (talk) 20:13, 29 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Concur that this is an important point. The crash and its repercussions were massively impactful on the type’s development, and if there was enough information to justify spinning off a separate article, obviously we shouldn’t then delete the separate article. Shelbystripes (talk) 22:16, 29 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Sandstein 21:41, 4 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Keep: I don't think the fact that it was a test flight is relevant to the question of notability. XL Airways Germany Flight 888T is a good example of a test flight crash that was both newsworthy and important for flight safety. I concur with the other "Keep" voters. Dflaw4 (talk) 08:38, 7 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was keep. There is some disagreement about his exact route to notability, but there is now clear consensus that he is notable Nosebagbear (talk) 21:53, 11 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Eugene Messler

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Fails WP:GNG, as I cannot find any coverage online outside of an obituary republished in a couple newspapers. Fails WP:NGRIDIRON, having never played professionally, and WP:NCOLLATH. Coached a now-Division III football program for four games in 1894, and later coached a professionally football team four a few seasons before the creation of the NFL 23 years later. Eagles 24/7 (C) 21:38, 4 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete: I'm finding nothing available online except for the ref that's already in the article. Even if there are some additional vintage text sources that could be scoured for this guy, he doesn't appear to have done anything in his career that would establish his notability. Skeletor3000 (talk) 21:53, 4 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Keep. The article was in poor shape but has now been expanded. Messler played at the tackle position on Walter Camp's 1891-1893 Yale teams that won three consecutive national championships. These are the Camp teams that went a long way to inventing the modern game of American football. Messler was also the head coach of the 1894 Centre football team. He also later served as player-coach of one of the earliest professional football teams. Passes per WP:GNG with new sources added. In addition, WP:CFBCOACH notes that the College Football Wikiproject "considers all head coaches (past and present) of notable college football programs to be notable." While Centre Colonels football is now a lower-tier program, it was one of the truly notable programs in the early days of Southern football. Indeed, Messler's 1894 team competed at a high level with games against major Southern teams of the day, including a victory over Kentucky State (i.e. the University of Kentucky) and a close loss to Vanderbilt. Cbl62 (talk) 00:40, 6 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Keep per Cbl62. Jweiss11 (talk) 00:47, 6 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Keep per Cb162. Note, that point also fits WP:NOTTEMPORARY, as Cbl62 (talk · contribs) mentioned, Centre was a major college program pre-NCAA DI-A era. He also coached a notable pre-NFL professional team. If Ohio State drops to DIII and "is now DIII", that doesn't change past notability. Bhockey10 (talk) 02:32, 6 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
~~Comment~~ changed vote below Unfortunately, none of the refs in the article seem to show WP:GNG on their own with one exception. The first book is a family history written by someone with the same last name, so not independent. The Who's Who in American Sports sent everyone in that book a questionnaire, so even though it can help verify him, the information seems to have come from Messler himself. The Pittsburgh Dispatch is a clipping of a drawing of all of the players on the Yale squad. The next three are reference websites. The Encyclopedia of American Biography might be a good source, I can't tell how they verify the information. Finally, the last reference is an obituary. I'm no specifically voting !delete, but I did my own Newspapers.com search of "Eugene Messler Yale" and didn't find anything (he may have been on the rowing team which beat Harvard in 1893) but I'm hopeful another qualifying source or two can be found, especially since he was the president of an industrial company in Pittsburgh. But if that can't happen, I don't necessarily support keeping this. Furthermore, WP:CFBCOACH cannot overrule WP:GNG. SportingFlyer T·C 03:37, 6 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

As reflected in WP:CFBCOACH, members of the College Football Wikiproject have endeavored over the past decade to create a full record of head coaches from notable college football programs. Given the coverage received, and significant role played by head coaches, this appears to be a reasonable judgment. Moreover, this judgment has been consistently respected in AfD discussions for the past decade as evidenced in the Head coach notability discussion library. Cbl62 (talk) 18:07, 7 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I'm not saying it's an unreasonable assumption, just that if an article fails WP:GNG it cannot be overruled by a local guideline. Messler, at the moment, does fail WP:GNG. He doesn't fail it miserably, considering the Pittsburgh obituary, but I've done several archival searches and this is the best thing I've found so far (apart from the fact he wrote a lot of letters to the Pittsburgh opinion section, which obviously don't count) and that's about rowing and only includes a drawing of him and his name in a list.. SportingFlyer T·C 22:42, 7 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Keep Coached at the major college (at the time) and pro levels of football. This article looks reasonably good considering the time period. I'm sure there are more sources in contemporary newspapers but it would be difficult to archive them. ~EDDY ^{(talk/contribs)}~ 15:46, 7 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

What makes Centre College a "major college" program in 1894? It was in its fifth year of existence (fourth since coming back from a 10-year hiatus), and played in 13 total games before Messler coached four games. You could argue it became a major program about 20 years later, but notability is not inherited. WP:LOOKSGOOD is a poor argument as well. Eagles 24/7 (C) 16:06, 7 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

The question under WP:CFBCOACH is whether Centre was a "notable college football program". The 1894 Centre football team passes this test. Although Southern football was in its infancy in the 1890s, Centre was competing at a high level, playing the other major Southern teams of that time period, crushing Kentucky State (i.e. the University of Kentucky) by a 67–0 score and losing a close game to Vanderbilt (probably the most dominant team in early Southern football). Besides that, he passes WP:GNG. Cbl62 (talk) 17:39, 7 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

WP:CFBCOACH concedes in its own text that many feel it is too lenient of a guideline, so while it may represent consensus within that project, it's certainly not a notability guideline that is backed by site-wide consensus. As Messler doesn't meet WP:NCOLLATH, I think WP:GNG or WP:ANYBIO are the guidelines we're shooting for here, and the Who's Who source in the article is the solitary source I'm seeing that may meet either, if we consider it similar to the Dictionary of National Biography mentioned in WP:ANYBIO #3. Otherwise, it represents a solitary piece of independent, significant coverage about his football career. For me, the question revolves around the weight given to the Who's Who entry. Skeletor3000 (talk) 18:01, 7 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Respectfully disagree. This, this, and this each represent significant coverage for purposes of GNG. These were pulled because they were particularly detailed with biographical detail, but other source are out there as well. Cbl62 (talk) 18:11, 7 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

In addition to the detailed piece in the Pittsburgh paper, the AP and UP both generated obits which were published in newspapers across the country. E.g., this. Cbl62 (talk) 20:06, 7 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I agree he wouldn't meet WP:NCOLLATH as a player but as a coach of a major college program at the time he does meet the GNG as Cbl62 (talk · contribs) and several others have pointed out. Also, the original argument for deletion is flawed because he does meet notability per point 1 of WP:NGRIDIRON. "American football/Canadian football players and head coaches are presumed notable if they 1) Have appeared in at least one regular season or post-season game in any one of the following professional leagues: the Arena Football League, the Canadian Football League, the National Football League, the fourth American Football League, the All-America Football Conference, the United States Football League, or any other top-level professional league." The team and league he played/coached at the professional level in the pre-NFL era was a (the) top-level pro league of the turn of the century era and along with the argument made earlier that Centre College was a major collegiate team of in the late 1800s, notability is WP:NOTTEMPORARY. If the KC Cheifs fold and Ohio State drops to D3, the current players and coaches of those teams wouldn't lose notability in Wikipedia 2120.--Bhockey10 (talk) 20:24, 7 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

College football is not a professional sport, there is no reason to consider it a "top-level professional league". You could argue that the Duquesne Country and Athletic Club meets this criteria, but it was a member of the Western Pennsylvania Professional Football Circuit, and that was a regional league and not a national league. Being a coach of a major college program itself does not automatically pass GNG or even NCOLLATH. Eagles 24/7 (C) 20:44, 7 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I think you misread my point, College football is outside of the WP:NGRIDIRON. Being a major college HC, he does seem to satisfy that GNG as Cbl62 and others pointed out, among other side qualifies on that alone. But even if his college time is debatable, he meets WP:NGRIDIRON alone. In the late 1800s early 1900s all the football leagues were "regional" (even the early NFL development was regional). Footprint of teams is not a part of WP:NGRIDIRON, it relies on GNG and competitive level and the Western PA League was the top pro league of the time period. Even in its decline, teams from the league played exhibitions against the early NFL teams. The Duquesne Country and Athletic Club was the league's top team during his time with the team as a player and coach and cited in the Western Pennsylvania Professional Football Circuit article, "the league's winner of the circuit was usually able to lay claim to a national, but professional, football title from 1890-1903.[3]"--Bhockey10 (talk) 20:59, 7 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

The Western Pennsylvania Professional Football Circuit article also states "The football clubs of the 1880s and 1890s were amateur teams" and I'm having a hard time finding evidence that Duquesne was fully professional when Messler coached the club. I agree with SportingFlyer that the references added to this article are not convincing enough yet that Messler passes GNG. Eagles 24/7 (C) 21:17, 7 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

That paragraph essentially describes the associations transition from amateur to semi-pro to pro. "Originally amateur, professionalism was introduced to the circuit in 1892;" Eugene Messler played for Duquesne 1895–1897 during the period the league's winners "the winner of the circuit was usually able to lay claim to a national, but professional, football title from 1890-1903.[3] One of the many citations in the article, from the Pro Football Hall of Fame considers pro to have initiated in 1892 Here. Also the Duquesne joined several seasons after the professionalism began and cited in it's article began "after four games...they began hiring stars and soon became the most professional team in the city.[3]" By all accounts, as cited in it's articles, The team was a professional team and the Western PA league was the top pro league of that time. Both fully qualify per the WP:NGRIDIRON and per WP:NOTTEMPORARY. --Bhockey10 (talk) 22:06, 7 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Professionalism may have initiated in 1892, but that only means at least one player on the team was being paid. In the Western Pennsylvania Professional Football Circuit article, it says that the 1896 Allegheny Athletic Association team was the "first fully professional football team". There is also a claim in History of American football that "In 1897, the Latrobe Athletic Association paid all of its players for the whole season, becoming the first fully professional football team." When did Duquesne become fully professional? Eagles 24/7 (C) 22:25, 7 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Whether or not a team’s roster is 100% paid is not a qualification per WP:NGRIDIRON. Only that the individual played and/or coached in the notable leagues listed and/or "top pro league" of an era. I think you’re looking at this from a 2020s perspective but in the 1890s and early 1900s, pro sports were brand new. If any major pro sports team (MLB, NFL, NHL) was organized today like they were in the 1800s/early 1900s, by today’s standards almost all would be considered semi-pro. Even into the mid-1900s, many of the major pro league's athletes had other off-season jobs- Today that would be equal to a semi-pro standard.Bhockey10 (talk) 23:55, 7 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Arguing over SNG is irrelevant considering he does not yet meet WP:GNG (per the source analysis above.) As someone skeptical of obituaries as notability-qualifying sources, I still think we're probably two sources away at the moment. SportingFlyer T·C 02:28, 8 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

There is absolutely no valid basis for discounting an editorially-independent obituary with in-depth coverage of a person's life. Death notices should be discounted but not this. Cbl62 (talk) 08:14, 8 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Everyone dies; his death was reported at length in Pittsburgh (his hometown) and in Dayton, Ohio, and there was a one-sentence blurb in Tampa. Whether obits are okay for notability has been a matter of debate in the past, but what is clear is that people who get long-form obits probably are notable for reasons other than dying. That's why I haven't gone all-out delete, but I'm surprised there's not more on him, especially his coaching career (only a brief blurb in the Kentucky paper.) SportingFlyer T·C 09:13, 8 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

It appears we have been focusing too much on his football career when he is probably more notable as a steel company manager and soldier. I'm surprised that I can't find much on his coaching the Duquesne Athletic Club, but that's probably because it was more of a side hustle while he worked at Carnegie Steel. He appears to have had some prominence in the industry and became friends with the most famous general during WWI. I have added several sources so his notability should not be in doubt. There are probably several more news sources, but I can't access Newspapers.com. ~EDDY ^{(talk/contribs)}~ 15:43, 8 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Keep per the sources Editorofthewiki found - has only marginal notability on football grounds but was a wealthy industrialist (but a wealthy industrialist who, based on his opinion pieces to the Pittsburgh newspaper, was on the wrong side of the New Deal.) SportingFlyer T·C 10:36, 9 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Keep - now clearly meets GNG. Rlendog (talk) 15:17, 11 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. There is consensus that the subject does not meet NPOL's requirements by his current position(s), along with coverage being primarily local. While a more general consideration of the body's standing (more specifically, that of its members) per NPOL could be had, there is firm consensus that CoR doesn't meet the current requirements and so shouldn't be retained pending that time. While a redirect was mooted, that consideration was significantly outweighed by the straight deletes. Nosebagbear (talk) 21:58, 11 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Conor D. McGuinness

(Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)

Non-notable local politician. Google search shows no notability and basically unknown outside of his own county. The subject does not meet the notability criteria for politicians (WP:NPOL), in that local councillors in Ireland do not meet the expectations of an international or national office. The subject also doesn't meet the general notability criteria for people (WP:NBIO). He is the only member of Waterford City and County Council (32 members) to have an article. He is a member of various boards/agencies/committees that being a member of a political party (Sinn Féin) and a member of a county council normally entail, but nothing of national importance. Contested Prod with argument: "Major local political figures who have received significant press coverage". The only press coverage is from local (Waterford based) based and does not meet WP:SIGCOV. Also, created by a single purpose account. Spleodrach (talk) 20:50, 28 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Politicians-related deletion discussions. Spleodrach (talk) 20:55, 28 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Ireland-related deletion discussions. Spleodrach (talk) 20:56, 28 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Delete - I was unable to find any sources that would help him pass WP:NPOL let alone GNG. Missvain (talk) 00:50, 29 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Delete - Per nom and Missvain. In terms of WP:NPOL, the criteria is not met (seats on local councils in Ireland do not meet the expectations of an "international, national, or sub-national (e.g., province- or state-wide) office"). In terms of WP:GNG, the criteria is not met. (A search of the Irish "newspapers of record", namely the Irish Times and Irish Independent, returns only a scant few "passing mentions" of the type we might expect for any campaigning local politician. There are two trivial mentions for example in the Irish Times that I can find by tweaking search criteria. A Google News search returns slightly more local news coverage. But none of the coverage is about the subject directly, and there is not enough of it to meet WP:SIGCOV.) Doesn't meet any applicable criteria. Delete. Guliolopez (talk) 10:38, 29 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Delete. Non-notable local politician. LefcentrerightTalk (plz ping) 16:19, 29 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Delete not even in Ireland are county councilors default notable and there is not enough coverage to show notability on his own.John Pack Lambert (talk) 13:54, 30 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Weak delete - Waterford is not that large a city, but is regionally important. So an argument could be made for inclusion, but I can see both sides. Perhaps a redirect to an election page or the city's article may be appropriate. FWIW, my father's parents met there. Bearian (talk) 16:54, 31 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]
keep - the article cites several reliable secondary sources independent of the subject. I can find no mention in any guidelines that sources should not be local or regional press. The guidelines clearly state that coverage does not need to be about the subject directly, but needs to be more than a passing mention. That said several of the references refer directly to the subject. There are several extant articles on Irish City and County councillors. Article has been updated to include subject's membership of European and regional institutions. User:WestWaterfordBrigade 23:40, 2 February 2020 (GMT)
Comment This is first !vote from WestWaterfordBrigade, the article creator. As they have !voted again below, I struck this out. Spleodrach (talk) 20:36, 3 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I only see one vote. Furthermore for the future you should strike only the vote, NOT the entire comment. The comments are very welcome. SportingFlyer T·C 21:07, 8 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

You should look a bit harder, there is the above Keep !vote and the Oppose one below at 16:58, 3 February 2020 beginning with Oppose - Per Spleodrach contention. Spleodrach (talk 21:13, 8 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose isn’t really one of the options. Why would you strike a valid keep !vote and not a malformed oppose “!vote”? SportingFlyer T·C 21:32, 8 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I don't think that User:WestWaterfordBrigade is very familiar with Wikipeida deletion guidelines. Oppose is the same as keep, call it what ever you like, so it is still two !votes. Spleodrach (talk) 22:33, 8 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Delete The subject is doing a lot of regional and international work, especially as a member of the European Committee of the Regions. However, it does not appear that the subject has the national or international coverage necessary to meet WP:NPOL or WP:GNG. In this body, though, there are 350 members with no direct decision-making ability. --Enos733 (talk) 05:20, 3 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose - Per Spleodrach contention that subject does not meet notability criteria for politicians please note that the article has since been edited to include information regarding subject's membership of the European Committee of the Regions and Southern Regional Assembly. WP:NPOL presumes the following to be notable: 'Politicians [...] who have held international, national or sub-national (e.g., province- or state-wide) office or have been members of legislative bodies a those levels'.

WP:NPOL additionally presumes notability for 'Major local political figures who have received significant press coverage'.

It does not suggest that such press coverage cannot be local or regional. That said, there is significant press coverage both national, regional and local. Here is a non-exhaustive list of some non-Waterford national and regional, and Waterford local press coverage.

National RTÉ Raidió na Gaeltachta (National radio station) ^[1] Council Journal (National journal of the local government sector) ^[2] Tuairisc.ie (national Irish-language news site( ^[3]^[4]^[5] Irish Examiner (National daily newspaper)^[6] Irish Times (National daily newspaper) ^[7] Irish Independent (National daily newspaper) ^[8] RTÉ (National broadcaster news website) ^[9]

Regional The Munster Express (regional newspaper covering the South East) ^[10], ^[11], ^[12], ^[13], ^[14], ^[15] and ^[16] Cork Beo (Cork-based online news outlet) ^[17] The subject is one of only a few Sinn Féin councillors to have their statements published on the party's national website. e.g. ^[18] and ^[19]

Local Waterford Today (Weekly newspaper and news website) ^[20] and ^[21] Waterford Live (News website) c. 45 articles ^[22] WLRfm (Local radio station and news website^[23]), ^[24], ^[25], ^[26], ^[27], ^[28] and ^[29] Waterford Now ^[30], ^[31], ^[32] and ^[33] Waterford News and Star (Weekly newspaper) ^[34], ^[35], ^[36], ^[37], ^[38], ^[39], ^[40], ^[41], ^[42]

Contrary to User:Guliolopez\Guiliolopez's contention above that 'none of the coverage is about the subject directly, there is a significant amount of local coverage directly about the subject to be found in multiple published, secondary sources that are reliable, independent of each other and independent of the subject as per WP:BASIC and WP:GNG. This list above is non-exhaustive and the result of simple google searches.

I disagree with User:John Pack Lambert's assertion that the coverage listed above is 'not enough coverage to show notability'. How much is enough? How many direct references to a subject's political activities in independent, reliable, secondary sources are required to determine notability?

Its worth noting that many Irish councillors are the subjects of Wikipedia articles. Here is a non-exhaustive list. I have not included councillors whose noteriety is paritally derived from other activities (eg. artists, former pop stars, former TDs, former sportspersons etc.) Ciaran Brogan, Cormac Devlin, Roderic O'Gorman, Cian O'Callaghan, Peter Kavanagh, Charlie O'Connor, Terry Shannon (politician), Holly Cairns, Pádraig O'Sullivan, Declan McDonnell, Michael Crowe (politician), Donal Lyons, Vincent Jackson (politician), Paul McAuliffe, Gary Gannon, Micheál MacDonncha, Mary Freehill, Nial Ring, Hazel Chu and Naoise Ó Muirí.

Notability is clearly established by the recent update which adds information relating to the subjects regional and European mandate as per WP:NPOL. The 'significant coverage' test through the many direct, reliable, independent references cited above as per WP:BASIC and WP:GNG.

Perhaps a wider discussion on the treatment of biographical articles for local political figures in Ireland is warranted, however to move to delete this article prior to such a discussion, given the prevalence of mixed-quality biographical articles for other Irish local political figures, would be an error, and inconsistent with the guidelines cited in this discussion. WestWaterfordBrigade (talk) 16:58, 3 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: Just in case somebody wants to address WestWaterfordBrigade's wall of text. If nobody does, I expect this to close as "delete".
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Sandstein 21:38, 4 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Comment - Personally I had no intention of responding to that level of WP:BLUDGEONing. However, given the re-listing, I would simply note that the author's inclusion of links to several dozen news articles (in which the subject is simply mentioned in passing, and for none of which is the subject the primary topic), does nothing to address the WP:GNG concern. And the author's inclusion of links to several dozen other articles (in which the subjects are either ex-TDs, or Mayors, or party chairpersons, or otherwise not "equivalent" to the subject here), does nothing to address the WP:NPOL concern. Rather, all it does is suggest that the author hasn't read WP:SIGCOV or WP:OSE. And is otherwise more invested in interests which are external to this project than to reading/understanding/upholding Wikipedia's goals. Guliolopez (talk) 22:11, 4 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Comment - The sources listed by WestWaterfordBrigade are nearly all local, from Waterford or Cork. There is no evidence of national prominence, and as has been pointed out by Guliolopez, national newspaper searches only return passing mentions.

I had not heard of European Committee of the Regions before. It is a body of 350 members comprising local/regional politicians from all EU member states, 9 of which are from Ireland. Given the size of the body, and its a talking shop without any real powers, I'd argue that membership does not confer notability.

As for the list of other councillors who have articles, this is just WP:OTHERSTUFFEXISTS. Also, most of those listed are former Mayors/Lord Mayors of Cork/Galway/Dublin which on wikipedia gives them notability. Some like Hazel Chu (first Irish born chinese person elected), Cian O'Callaghan (first openly gay mayor), have other reason for notability. Admittedly some don't like Holly Cairns, who looks like a candidate for AFD. Roderic O'Gorman was nominated for deletion in 2010 by me! The article was deleted but then re-created a few years ago. I won't re-nominate just yet, as there is a good chance that Rodders will be a TD by Sunday evening!

Is there a WP:COI here? How does WestWaterfordBrigade know the full date of birth of Conor McGuinness? This information is not on the internet. Does WestWaterfordBrigade have a connection with the subject? As I already pointed out that WestWaterfordBrigade is a WP:SPA. Spleodrach (talk) 22:15, 4 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Delete Having reviewed the wall of sources above he's only really locally notable, using my test that he receives coverage above and beyond what would be expected of any local councillor, which he does not in my opinion. Since we tend to find politicians who only represent local areas in local elections and received only local coverage around their position not notable, I'm !voting to delete. SportingFlyer T·C 05:01, 8 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Delete, per SportingFlyer, as their interpretation of NPOL resembles mine. PK650 (talk) 21:59, 9 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

References

comment~~keep~~ with respect Spleodrach your not having heard of the CoR says more about your lack of knowledge of this area than about the notability of the subject of this article. Membership of the CoR in itself satisfies the criteria for notability laid down in black and white in WP:NPOL - "Politicians and judges who have held international, national, or sub-national (e.g., province- or state-wide) office, or have been members of legislative bodies at those levels." This could not be clearer. Your (by your own admissions illinformed) opinion on the CoR is irrelevant here. The criteria here is met and deminstrated. His DOB is available on his public social media accounts. Given we're asking WP:COI questions here..

Do you betray a conflict of interest with your apparent familiarity with 'Rodders'? Does that explain the double standard at play WestWaterfordBrigade (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 23:25, 10 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Comment. Hiya WestWaterfordBrigade. A couple of quick things. Procedurally first. Once you have made your initial "keep" or "delete" recommendation, please consider marking further contributions as simply "comment" or "reply". Marking each note in a thread as "keep" is not in keeping with procedure. Now, to the main point seemingly raised, that being a member of the CoR automatically meets NPOL and confers notability, I would note simply that:

The CoR is not an elected legislative body. It doesn't draft, make, pass, or enact legislation. It is not a legislative body. Nor do its members hold an "office" (elected or otherwise) as expected by NPOL generally. (It is, as per its own terms, a "forum for local leaders to discuss common obstacles" to legislation which has been drafted or proposed by the legislative arms of the EU/EC. Namely the European Commission, Council of the EU or European Parliament.
Even, frankly, if the CoR were an elected or legislative body (rather than a discussion forum), the subject here is not a (full) member of that forum. The subject is an alternate member. A person who, with every respect, attends the forum if the full members are unable to do so.

I am delighted that the subject has been chosen to contribute to the forum. More power to him and the 658 other local politicians (329 members and 329 alternates) who also do so. But it is a significant stretch to suggest that one or all automatically meet NPOL by virtue of being full (or alternate) members of a discussion forum. EU-wide or otherwise.

Anyway, I'm going to step away now. As I've already broken the "don't respond to bludgeoning" rule I set myself/personally a while ago.... Guliolopez (talk) 00:35, 11 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Comment - Please refrain from personal attacks, my opinion is as valid as yours. Just stick to the fact, and the facts are as Guliolopez has said on the CoR, membership does meet notability guideline as it is not a legislative body. The criteria is not demonstrated and definitely not met. As my "Rodders" comment, it was a humorous aside, jokes are allowed on wikipedia but often do not travel well. I have never met the individual but I do note that my prediction that he would be elected as a TD was correct! Also, that is 3 times WestWaterfordBrigade has !voted now, you should read the Wikipedia deletion guidelines. Spleodrach (talk) 08:09, 11 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was no consensus. Sandstein 19:15, 12 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

La Cuarta

(Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)

Article offers no evidence of notability, and is completely unsourced since 2011. MoonyTheDwarf (Braden N.) (talk) 08:14, 21 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of News media-related deletion discussions. MoonyTheDwarf (Braden N.) (talk) 08:14, 21 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Chile-related deletion discussions. CAPTAIN RAJU^(T) 09:40, 21 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Missvain (talk) 16:25, 28 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Delete, at least from English Wikipedia. I'm not good at Spanish, but from what I can tell, all coverage off of Google seems to be either self-published, or unrelated to the magazine. ωικιωαrrιorᑫᑫ1ᑫ 17:05, 28 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Comment: I added one reference. ωικιωαrrιorᑫᑫ1ᑫ 17:08, 28 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Keep. It’s a national newspaper produced by a major publisher for thirty five years. Indeed while other papers from the same publisher are dying, this one survives, often absorbing its former rivals. The sources I found are not great but include 1, 2, 3 and [9]. Mccapra (talk) 07:34, 4 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Sandstein 21:34, 4 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Keep. I can't blame you for not being able to properly check Spanish sources (although a more cautious approach would be warranted from now on), but this is actually one of the most circulated papers in Chile. In fact it was second only to El Mercurio a few years ago.^[1] PK650 (talk) 08:49, 12 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was Delete. If the article's creator or anyone else wants a copy for some reason, let me know. I'll be happy to userfy it.. ~ ONUnicorn^{(Talk|Contribs)}problem solving 15:03, 4 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Oldest Belgian families

(Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)

We don't have any similar article (list...?) for another country. Setting aside that more than half of the entries here are not referenced, I don't see how this topic passes GNG or LISTN. Some families are notable, but listing them by oldest recorded date seems trivial, just like Foo families by region or so on would be. Thoughts? _{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 12:37, 21 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of History-related deletion discussions. _{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 12:37, 21 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Belgium-related deletion discussions. _{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 12:37, 21 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Keep As mentioned in the article, most entries do not have a source because they all come from the same book, which itself is very well sourced. They are also published on the website of the Genealogical and Heraldic Office of Belgium. The ones not included in either of those places are all sourced independently. I believe that this list being included in a book of national importance as well as on the website of a renowned institution in Belgium is enough to pas the General notability guideline. I am not sure what LISTN is so cannot comment on that. I am all for creating such lists for other countries if reliable sources back them. --Brookford (talk) 13:56, 21 January 2020 (UTC) EDIT: I would understand that the format of this article would need to be re-organised, I simply took the same format as the French article, which may not be appropriate for the English Wikipedia. Also maybe the title needs to be changed to: "Chronological list of Belgian families"--Brookford (talk) 14:59, 21 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Delete, extremely incomplete and subjective list. First entry, "de belgique", leads to the article Monarchy of Belgium, with a family who only entered what is now Belgium in 1831, they come from Germany before this. Second entry; House of Limburg-Stirum, " which adopted its name in the 12th century from the sovereign county of Limburg an der Lenne in what is now Germany" They entered "Belgium" in 1068? No idea where that comes from, House of Limburg-Stirum doesn't mention that year. Third entry, House of Arenberg? "who took their name from Arenberg, a small territory of the Holy Roman Empire in the Eifel region", again Germany. On the other hand, there are 1000s of families who can trace their roots back to the 18th century, most genealogies which are created go back at least as far and show some members of the family to be in present-day Belgium in the 1700s. And that's even only taking into account the rather outdated idea of a "family" being father-to-son only, e.g. there are many descendants of Peter Paul Rubens alive today, but all through female lines, so no "real" Rubens is alive and they are missing from this list. Even when people and families are well-known and old, they are missing, e.g. Moretus has living direct male descendants. Of course, they are not nobility, unlike most or all of this list, which seems to be maintained by a rather snobbish group (not the editors here, the Genealogical and Heraldic Office of Belgium). Fram (talk) 14:19, 21 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I suppose it is incomplete and subjective in that it only lists entries that can be sourced... Regarding your point on some of these families not having Belgian origins, first of all Belgium didn't exist until 1830, and second of all, the article states that it includes families that were Belgian during the 20th century, I will admit that it should be extended to the 21st century too. Yes it is true that many families can trace their ancestry to the 18th century, but in this case, as in all Wikipedia, it needs to be properly sourced by secondary sources. Regarding the concept of a family, that is certainly a debate to be had but until then I believe that the notion that has been used in most of the world for most of recorded history should be used. --Brookford (talk) 14:28, 21 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Also, are you saying that families can't be Belgian if they only entered Belgium a year after its creation? Which brings another question, are you saying immigrants and their descendants cannot be of the nationality of their host country?--Brookford (talk) 14:33, 21 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Regarding the Moretus family whose ommition you claim to be because of snobbery from the Genealogical and Heraldic Office of Belgium, you will be happy to know that it is listed in the book and on the website under the date 1539... --Brookford (talk) 14:51, 21 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I'm saying that "oldest Belgian families" is rather meaningless if you include any family which lives now in Belgium, but didn't live here at the time stated in the article. The absence of e.g. any of the oldest Antwerp Jewish families, which often have published genealogies going back many centuries, is remarkable as well. And thanks for adding Moretus, but the 1539 date is wrong, as that is the year the eldest child (brother of Jan Moretus) was born, but we have the marriage contract of his father, dated to 1537. This is easily findable, so if whoever wrote that book doesn't even know this, then the reliability of that source is dubious[10]. Fram (talk) 15:26, 21 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

That is your opinion but I do not think it is meaningless. You are more than welcome to contribute to this list with reliable sources. I do not know if the families you speak of are included in the book or website. You can check yourself here. The fact that "whoever wrote that book doesn't even know" that a specific family has another documented proof 2 years earlier does not make this source dubious. I am not familiar with this specific case but maybe there is no link between the marriage certificate and the rest of the family. Thus it may not be definitively proven that the family alive today is linked to that certificate. Even if it can this isn't making the case against the existence of this article. --Brookford (talk) 18:37, 21 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Well, the marriage certificate is for the father of Jan Moretus, and is kept at the Plantin-Moretus archives, so it seems well proven... But let's look at another example from the list. "1639: Goethals". What an utterly meaningless entry. There is also a "1550: Goethals de Mude de Nieuwland". Now, one can easily dispute the oldest entries in this book on that family[11], but the Biographical Index of the Benelux at least agrees with entries dating to 1217 for the Goethals Mude family[12]. Basically, the list is a minor subset of families, heavily slanted towards nobility, and is obviously incorrect. Fram (talk) 08:24, 22 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Well, I don't think Houtart suggests a relationship with the old Goethals de Mude family, on the contrary: the current Goethals family of which ancestors never were lords of Mude and Nieuwland and their addition to their family name in 1967 to Goethals de Mude de Nieuwland is based on the arms of the old family, not on a relationship, according to Houtart, so more an usurpation of arms and family name. Houtart dates the current family back not later than 1550, and so I am not sure that you are right in your assumptions. Paul Brussel (talk) 23:12, 3 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

My point is that entries like "1639 : Goethals" are utterly useless and meaningless. There are many "Goethals" families in Belgium, and one of them, according to one source, can be traced back to 1639, perhaps, if that source is right. For another family, "Goethals de Mude", this source claims 1550, other (also reliable) sources go back a lot further. The page up for deletion is presenting one source, which is contradicted by others, as if it is "the truth", and presents the information (by necessity) in a format which gives the readers no context, no background, to judge even what is being discussed here (Goethals? Is that the family of Christian Goethals, Henry Goethals (born ca. 1217!), Lucien Goethals, Raymond Goethals, ...? Presumably it is the "noble" family from Kortijk (because, let's face it, you can't be an old Belgian family without being nobility of course), which dates apparently to 1638, not 1639[13]? Looking at e.g; 1383: Della Faille, I can't find any sources confirming this date, and the very exhaustive published genealogy of the family finds no one before ca. 1400, and no definite dates before 1448 apparently[14] Entry 1587: van den Berg, is another example of a completely random name / date combination, not giving any useful information to readers. Fram (talk) 08:29, 4 March 2020 (UTC))[reply]

Comment -- We cannot retain the article under this name. Every family is in fact old. When the 14th Earl of Home renounced his peerage to become British Prime Minister the quip was made that his opponent was the 14th Mr Wilson, though nobody would have traced who the first was or how many generations had had the surname. What is involved here is families with the longest traceable genealogy. Basically this is families recorded in a certain genealogical dictionary, I am not sure that is an adequate basis for a WP article. I recall a discussion many years ago about a British book listing the greatest landowners in Britain in about 1870, a book which when published was a pioneering piece of research; we deleted it. Peterkingiron (talk) 13:57, 22 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Thank your for the constructive comment. What would you suggest renaming it? I was thinking of “chronological list of Belgian families” or “chronological list of families of Belgium”. Any other ideas? Brookford (talk) 14:42, 22 January 2020 (UTC) EDIT:You said that "this is families recorded in a certain genealogical dictionary", but that was only the start of the article, but quite a few entries do not come from that book and all genealogical books and studies are welcomed additions to the list. --Brookford (talk) 18:40, 22 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Missvain (talk) 16:23, 28 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Delete Cannot pass WP:LISTN since the only source for most of this information is WP:PRIMARY and there is not evidence of reliable coverage in secondary sources or independent sources. Eggishorn (talk) (contrib) 23:09, 28 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Incorrect, it is mainly based on a secondary source, which itself uses primary sources.Brookford (talk) 02:31, 29 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Taking information and slapping it into a new format does not convert sourcing from primary to secondary. A secondary source is characterized by editorial and authorial activity such as transformation, commenting, evaluation, synthesis, analysis, or other such activities, none of which are evident in the source given here. In context, this is still a primary source. Eggishorn (talk) (contrib) 03:09, 29 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I am aware of what makes a source secondary. This book didn't just take information and "slap" it into a new format. It was an extensive research project with a lot of source analysis involved. As my discussion above showed, it is not just taking the earliest mention of a family, the links between all these records have been extensively researched, analysed and assessed. It is also very conservative in its process. What evidence do you have to say that it doesn't meet all the criteria you listed? --Brookford (talk) 17:07, 2 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Sandstein 21:34, 4 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: Ritchie333 closed this as "no consensus" but at Wikipedia:Deletion review/Log/2020 February 14 there is a consensus that this discussion was defective due to off-point comments; so relisting for further debate.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 22:06, 21 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Delete. I'm usually a fan of such articles but I cannot see how the sources support it. A lot of the references are just explanations, but if you actually look at the others, they all come from the Genealogical and Heraldic Office of Belgium, which has a very specialized interest in this area. Other sources are self-published genealogy websites. Lists of political families or noble families make sense, a list of families with no social distinction doesn't make sense. This is essentially a list of people we have records of. —Мандичка^YO 😜 02:58, 22 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

—Мандичка, I agree that neither this article/list nor its sources are perfect, but do you really think it should be deleted rather than improved?--Brookford (talk) 13:22, 27 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Delete somewhat per Wikimadia; the sourcing indicates no particular notability about this family other than that it is verified to have existed but with no long-term impact. ——SN 54129 06:13, 22 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

It was my understanding that the subject of the article/list was what was required to pass a test of notability, not every thing - in this case families - mentioned in it?--Brookford (talk) 13:19, 27 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Hi Brookford, just to clarify: this article is going to be deleted, and you are currently WP:BLUDGEONing the discussion. It is unnecessary. Many thanks. ——SN 54129 14:23, 27 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I was unaware of this WP guideline, and can see how my actions appear to be similar to it. I will thus stop commenting on this page, even if I believed I was encouraging deeper conversations on the issue.--Brookford (talk) 14:33, 27 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete - Genealogical and Heraldic Office of Belgium does not really form a sufficient basis for establishing notability of this topic.--Staberinde (talk) 19:12, 25 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

The study of this topic is also the subject of Jean-François Houtart's book Anciennes Familles de Belgique. --Brookford (talk) 13:21, 27 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Keep. given the wo books, and not challenge to their reliability ,there is no reason to delete. DGG ( talk ) 08:49, 29 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
- DGG, I have challenged the reliability of the one book (not two) quite extensively above. The book seems to be a rather random collection, with equally random (i.e. often wrong) starting dates, and using a very old-fashioned definition of "family". Fram (talk) 08:13, 2 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Weak keep. Given that the list is sourced to two published books, I don't see that there is any valid policy based reasoning for deletion. Calling these sources primary sources is a bit of stretch as we generally trust government generated content. 4meter4 (talk) 00:11, 1 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]
- @DGG and 4meter4:, what 2 books? The Houtart book is the same as the list on the website of the Genealogical and Heraldic Office of Belgium, and I don't see which other book you are referring to. Fram (talk) 08:11, 2 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I hope I won't be accused of bludgeoning for this, but maybe 4meter4 was referring to Félix-Victor Goethals's book: Miroir des notabilités nobiliaires de Belgique as well as publications by the scgd and the anrb which are all in the bibliography. (I know two of those are nobility-related which you won't like) Btw your comment on DGG's post is a challenge to a source not to the validity of the article itself. --Brookford (talk) 11:33, 2 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

DGGs comment was about the reliability of the book(s), so my reply was indeed a challenge to the source as well. Obviously, if your main source is not reliable, then the article may have issues as well (since the article is not about that source, but a summary of that source). I don't think using a mid-19th century book for a list like this is a good idea, the validity of such sources is by now very dubious (both wrt exaggerated claims, and with very incomplete research). And that book doesn't really concern itself with a chronological list of oldest Belgian families, it just gives an akphabetical list of noble families (with lots of information). Fram (talk) 12:20, 2 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Houtart (2008) is in Belgium generally considered to be a notable and reliable source (but of course for some of the hundreds of families it may include mistakes). He is complemented by a series of articles by the notable genealogist Hervé Douxchamps, 'Les quarante famille belges les plus anciennes subsistantes', in: Le Parchemin, lastly in number 444 (Novembre-Décembre 2019). However, some family entries were not based on those but on outdated sources like Goethals and some of them I have corrected today. Also, Houtart doesn't list extinct families. Paul Brussel (talk) 16:24, 2 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Delete. I don't have much to add to the arguments of Fram and Wikimanida. Absent a secondary source defining the topic's boundaries and giving its some depth, I don't see how this article is possible. Mackensen (talk) 11:56, 4 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was no consensus. qedk (t 桜 c) 11:33, 12 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Welfare Party of India

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Non notable political party, Fails the Notability guidelines for political parties. Authordom (talk) 13:46, 21 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

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Comment: I have serious concerns about this nomination. WP:NPP is a failed proposal. nom. has removed sources and content from the article before nomination ... while there is nothing that prevents this, it means that what has been removed may not be subject to full scrutiny. The AfD Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/SQR Ilyas while in a minimal discussion suggested this seems to be a fringe party and the party's president claim to notability rested with the party; of which there were three sources in that article. The nom. has done a very much WP:VAGUEWAVE nomination and I perhaps would suggest WP:BEFORE is re-checked as the party does seem to have sustained over eight years or so. I confess to ignorance of India's governance so I cannot determine what elected seats this party holds or at what level and if it is reasonably sufficient for notability. Djm-leighpark (talk) 20:23, 21 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I have removed only non reliable sources and that all mentioned in the summery. Authordom (talk) 01:00, 22 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Well other people will need to waste their time checking that. Removing "reliable" sources and content rather than marking say Template:Better source needed is an issue. Adding notability tags and immediately sending to WP:AFD is an issue. The fact the nomination on Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/SQR Ilyas was for Non notable Islamist politician rather than simply Non notable politician leads to me concerns, probably unfounded, that you may be a biased nominator. All said however as far as I can make out this party did not and has never gained elected seats in the Rajya Sabha or Lok Sabha. There do however appear to be a number of references to the party in the news link in reliable sources: [15], [16] (Passing mentions but 2020) [17], [18], [19], [20], [21] ...Djm-leighpark (talk) 08:44, 22 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Keep: While party is small and fringe they have achieved WP:SUSTAINED and WP:SIGCOV over a period of 8 years.Djm-leighpark (talk) 08:44, 22 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete None of the above references establish WP:GNG. Aman Kumar Goel^(Talk) 12:37, 30 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete far from meeting WP:NORG and WP:GNG. Tessaracter (talk) 15:01, 5 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Comment I have indicators sources are not being fully addressed by !delete voters with WP:VAGUEWAVE summaries. To embellish three sources out of many available toward WP:GNG per WP:THREE:

Ahmed, Khalique Ahmed (7 February 2017). "Gujarat: Welfare Party of India, new player in state politics". The Indian Express.
Islam, Maidul (2015). Limits of Islamism. Cambridge University Press. pp. 153, 157, 165. doi:10.1017/CBO9781139946131. ISBN 9781139946131.
Staff (25 January 2020). "Candlelight protest held against CAA, NRC, NPR". The Hindu.

Thankyou. Of course should any fall there are many replacements on the above links.Djm-leighpark (talk) 09:46, 6 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

And how dancing around controversies is enough for meeting WP:NORG and WP:GNG? Aman Kumar Goel^(Talk) 18:38, 7 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Keep, whilst the article needs a massive cleanup, WPI is a wellknown party. Fringe group, yes, but notable. --Soman (talk) 11:55, 10 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. qedk (t 桜 c) 11:34, 12 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Asifa Khan

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All sources are routine coverages. She was never elected as an MLA or MP. The article fails WP:GNG and WP:NPOL. S. M. Nazmus Shakib (talk) 16:22, 28 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete. Nothing stated in the article is a strong notability claim in and of itself — people get over our notability standards for politicians by holding a notable political office, not just by being active within a political party's internal org chart. But the article is not referenced to any strong evidence of reliable source coverage about her — it's referenced to sources about other people which mention her, which is not the same thing as notability-supporting coverage. Bearcat (talk) 18:33, 1 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Delete Fails WP:GNG Tayi Arajakate (talk) 23:15, 2 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Speedy Keep She got covered by Times of India, India Today and Zee News which are leading news services in India. She qualifies for General notablility guideline as per WP:POLITICIAN (Major local political figures who have received significant press coverage.) GargAvinash (talk) 05:51, 4 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete Not holding any position, just being an active member is not good enough to be notable. The9Man talk 11:08, 5 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Delete fails WP:NPOL as she never won any election. The politicians are expected to get this sort of coverage, accordingly our bar for politicians is higher than GNG. Bearcat has explained this well and there is not much left to add. DBig Xrayᗙ 06:40, 7 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Delete Fails WP:NPOL and doesn't meet the higher standard of WP:GNG required for politicians. Best, GPL93 (talk) 15:22, 10 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. "I just suspect" is the death knell for any article. We work with sources, not suspicions. Sandstein 19:16, 12 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Ground Floor (film)

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like Project Dorothy I can find no independent reliable sources writing about this and the only sources that were originally here were unreliable. Praxidicae (talk) 18:21, 21 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

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Weak Delete: It might be a bit WP:TOOSOON for the article. It doesn't seem that the film has come out yet, so I wouldn't be averse to the article being recreated after the film itself has had a chance to be reviewed, etc. Dflaw4 (talk) 08:45, 7 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Keep: As the creator of the page I have bias no doubt. But that said I won't be upset should the determination be deletion. WP:TOOSOON may be correct. I just suspect the film will imminently be hitting film festivals, garnering more press, etc. There seems to be [albeit somewhat limited] sustained press about it over the last couple years. Filmnerd123 (talk) 20:46, 10 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Comment: Filmnerd123, I have to commend you on your attitude. I, too, had an article deleted, so I understand the feeling. And I would certainly encourage you to save your work or to start a draft article (i.e., Draft: Ground Floor (film)) in case the article is deleted. Good luck! Dflaw4 (talk) 06:34, 11 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Comment: The existing article could certainly be moved to draftspace for incubation - and would retain the edit history (very important in this case, as others have edited it). Please do not copy/paste it to draftspace, per WP:COPYPASTE. If this is to be deleted, then it would remove all attribution, which is a requirement of the copyright licensing Wikipedia operates under. Waggie (talk) 22:01, 11 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Delete per WP:CRYSTAL and WP:TOOSOON. Once the film has come out, we could certainly revisit this. I mean, the sources offered aren't even primarily (most only slightly) about the film. This really doesn't even qualify as WP:SIGCOV. Waggie (talk) 21:57, 10 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. Entirely unsourced; deletion is mandated by WP:V. Sandstein 19:17, 12 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Rehan College of Education

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A promotional article, no coverage in WP:RS. Fails WP:GNG. Störm (talk) 14:50, 20 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

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Keep. Accredited, degree-awarding tertiary institution.[22] -- Necrothesp (talk) 15:22, 20 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Necrothesp, for your information, it is not 'degree awarding'. Degrees are awarded by the University of Karachi. It is only affiliated. Störm (talk) 15:32, 20 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

That is purely hair-splitting. It is a degree college. And we have almost always kept these in the past. For your information, British polytechnics didn't award their own degrees either. But they were still notable institutions. -- Necrothesp (talk) 16:42, 20 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Delete - I could to find any sources to help it pass GNG. If there are non-English sources, then I'm all ears. Missvain (talk) 21:01, 21 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete. This is a poorly written press release. Dorama285 22:37, 7 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was no consensus. Sandstein 19:17, 12 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Laurie Faso

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Non-notable performer, lacks significant coverage in independent reliable sources failing WP:ENT/WP:GNG. Pahiy (talk) 20:45, 21 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete the only source is IMDb. That is not a reliable source.John Pack Lambert (talk) 14:11, 23 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]
~~Weak~~ Keep: The actor has done quite a bit of voice work, most notably the voice of Raphael in Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles II: The Secret of the Ooze—but sources are badly needed. Dflaw4 (talk) 13:54, 26 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Updated my vote to "Keep" based on comments below by Bearian. I've also added a source to the article. Dflaw4 (talk) 04:52, 2 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

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Weak delete Lack of sourcing. No objection to keeping it if that can be improved (or even if there's a credible claim that sourcing is available). Andy Dingley (talk) 18:48, 28 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Delete as creator. There isn't anything out there on the guy. Ten Pound Hammer • ^{(What did I screw up now?)} 22:22, 28 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Delete. Fails basic test for notability. I don't find anything other than confirmation that he played minor roles in a variety of minor productions. Glendoremus (talk) 04:37, 30 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Weak keep. He was in the original cast of Godspell on Broadway. I'd like some better sourcing, though. He also has a large body of work, including voicing Raphael the TMT. Bearian (talk) 17:21, 31 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Draftify. Bearian raises some good points, so the article can be kept if it's improved. ミラ P 18:49, 31 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Comment: I've added a source to the article—a review of Godspell by Richard Eder in The New York Times, in which Faso's performance is reviewed. There are also several passing mentions of Faso regarding this play in books on theatre. Dflaw4 (talk) 04:52, 2 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

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Keep based on being in the original cast of Godspell, and Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles lead role. -- Toughpigs (talk) 21:10, 8 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. Sandstein 19:18, 12 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Vem Miller

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Does not appear to meet WP:GNG. Only sources available are passing mentions or press releases; no in-depth coverage seems to be out there. Yunshui ^雲 _水 16:02, 28 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Delete. I can't see any in-depth coverage in relevant third-party sources. Bishonen | talk 16:16, 28 January 2020 (UTC).[reply]

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Delete Insufficient coverage depth, per WP:BIO. OhNoitsJamie ^Talk 17:19, 28 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Keep I found these pictures with Vem Miller working with the likes of Jerry Seinfeld, John Mayer, Tyrese, the New York Mets, directing videos, and also directing a commercial for the Jerry Seinfeld Bee Movie (Links are below):

Vem Miller Directing John Mayer: Https:/upwiki/wikipedia/en/thumb/f/fc/Vemdirectingjohn2.jpg/800px-Vemdirectingjohn2.jpg

Vem Miller with Jerry Seinfield: https:/upwiki/wikipedia/en/thumb/f/fd/VemandJerry2.jpg/800px-VemandJerry2.jpg

Tyrese, Keith Murray and Vem Miller: https:/upwiki/wikipedia/en/thumb/1/1e/Tyrese%2C_Keith_Murray%2C_Vem_Miller.jpg/800px-Tyrese%2C_Keith_Murray%2C_Vem_Miller.jpg

Vem Miller and Jerry Seinfeld on Set: https:/upwiki/wikipedia/en/thumb/5/5f/Vem_and_jerry_seinfeld_on_set2.jpg/800px-Vem_and_jerry_seinfeld_on_set2.jpg

Vem Miller with the Mets: https:/upwiki/wikipedia/en/b/bb/Vem_and_Mets_compress2.jpg

Vem Miller in Jamaica: https:/upwiki/wikipedia/en/thumb/0/0b/Vem_in_jamaica.jpg/800px-Vem_in_jamaica.jpg

Keep Vem Miller is referenced in MANY in-depth ventures as seen below:

Executive producer in Television is a key creative title. He is also listed as creator of many of these shows. He's been nominated for directing MTV VMAs, BET awards, Source Magazine awards, etc.

Also, the issue is that as a music video director, he went under the name “Vem”, and then added his last name when creating and producing TV shows. Thats the confusion. He’s directed over 100 music videos.

All the prior Wikipedia links mention him by first name to have directed videos.

He is listed as the creator of Car Lot Rescue:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Car_Lot_Rescue

He is also listed here under director for DMX “Where the hood at”:

https://www.discogs.com/DMX-Where-The-Hood-At/release/3472733

He is listed here as the director of the John Mayer Say music video - mentioned as Vem:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Say_(song)

His IMDB shows him as the showrunner and director to multiple TV shows, music videos, and commercials:

https://m.imdb.com/name/nm4290084/filmotype/producer

In this article he is listed as a key “creative and development” producer with a production company:

https://realscreen.com/2016/04/18/nancy-glass-productions-rebrands-teams-with-sweatshop/

Here he is listed as a music video director for a classic music video:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skindred_discography

Here is another mention of his name:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Just_the_Girl

This video actually has his name on there as director:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V3kRRMrS3e4

Here is another mention for directing this video:

https://www.videostatic.com/vs/2005/10/booked-the-click-five-vem-director.html

Here he is mentioned as the director of another classic video, again by first name only:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Riddle_(Five_for_Fighting_song)

MTV music video nomination video of year:

https://www.billboard.com/articles/news/69818/2003-mtv-video-music-awards-nominees

Vem Miller is referenced in MANY in-depth ventures. I have a list below which are to name a few (which, I'll honestly admit, seems to be more than a lifetime of accomplishments for most):
In 2003, Vem Miller directed the DMX video for "Where the hood at"

In 2005, Vem Miller directed the Daniel Powter video for "Jimmy Gets High"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daniel_Powter

In 2006, Vem Miller directed the music video for Five for Fightings The Riddle.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Riddle_(Five_for_Fighting_song)

In 2007, Vem Miller directed the John Mayer music video for "Say"

Reference: Vem is mentioned in the article

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Say_(song)

In 2011, Spike TV aka Paramount Networks ordered the series Car Lot Rescue, a series created by Vem Miller

In 2012, Spike TV aka Paramount Networks ordered the series Tattoo Rescue from Vem Miller

https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/spike-tv-tattoo-rescue-pilot-ink-master-299464

In 2016, Vem Miller partnered up with Nancy Glass Productions

https://realscreen.com/2016/04/18/nancy-glass-productions-rebrands-teams-with-sweatshop/

In 2016, Vem Miller's show ran the pilot for the Viceland Vice Media Series Payday

https://www.imdb.com/name/nm4290084/?ref_=fn_al_nm_1

In 2017, Vem Miller launched the company Fresh Farms CBD, which has been featured on Forbes Magazine, SB Nation, TMZ, Fox News, and much more.

SB Nation

https://www.sbnation.com/a/weed-and-sports-420/green-rush

TMZ Cullen Jenkins Fresh Farms CBD

https://www.tmz.com/2018/04/01/cullen-jenkins-cbd-vicodin-get-through-games/

TMZ

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cdGovB5E45E

Fox News Milwaukee

https://fox6now.com/2018/05/07/after-13-years-in-the-nfl-former-packers-player-becomes-part-owner-of-cbd-oil-producer-it-kept-helping/

Milwaukee Journal Sentinel

https://www.jsonline.com/story/sports/nfl/packers/2018/03/29/former-packers-defensive-end-cullen-jenkins-now-turns-cbd-oil-pain-treatment/470127002/

Forbes Magazine Cullen Jenkins Fresh Farms CBD

https://www.forbes.com/sites/javierhasse/2019/02/01/super-bowl-champions-talk-about-the-nfls-stance-on-cannabis/#23b0b4e82995

Bleacher Report

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2767742-cullen-jenkins-used-pills-alcohol-to-mask-pain-in-nfl-cbd-helped-him-stop

Buzzfeed Cullen Jenkins Fresh Farms CBD

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=85-tpDB9ueY&t=1s

TheFarmacy.co Interview that we shared with the press get them excited about doing a piece. We guided the entire process through media savvy.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZVwui8xV0cE

On Milwaukee

https://onmilwaukee.com/sports/articles/cullen-jenkins-interview.html

Splimm

https://splimm.com/2018/04/18/cullen-jenkins-nfl-cbd/

NBC New Milwaukee

https://www.tmj4.com/news/local-news/ex-packer-cullen-jenkins-using-cannabis-oil-to-help-heal-his-pain

247 Sports

https://247sports.com/nfl/green-bay-packers/Article/Former-Packers-DL-Cullen-Jenkins-becomes-part-owner-of-CBD-oil-producer-118066074/

Vape News

https://vapenews.com/vape-news/cullen-jenkins-turns-to-cbd-for-pain-relief/

CBD School

https://www.cbdschool.com/cbd-football/

Project CBD

https://www.projectcbd.org/about/press

In 2018, Vem Miller launched TheFarmacy.co, with a party during NBA All Star Weekend. The party featured Kourtney Kardashian, Terell Owens, Todd Gurley, and many others.

https://www.newswire.com/news/prohibition-is-over-nba-all-stars-celebrate-the-public-launch-of-the-20259456 — Preceding unsigned comment added by Mframe007 (talk • contribs) 18:35, 29 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Delete. He appears to fail the GNG, and does not fulfill any CREATIVE criteria either. Coverage revolves around him merely being mentioned as executive producer for a tattoo TV show, and PR-stuff such as this. PK650 (talk) 21:54, 29 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Keep. We should keep this. It has multiple reliable sources, from New York Times, and Hollywood Reporter — Preceding unsigned comment added by Florence Hansen (talk • contribs) 20:44, 4 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete Looking through the list of sources provided by Mframe007 above, I'm seeing nothing independent that gives the subject significant coverage. Indeed, without wanting to pour scorn on Mframe, their act of adding a bunch of links to Wikipedia pages seems to suggest a lack of understanding of our notability criteria - WP:UGC explicitly states that user-generated content sites (such as Wikipedia or IMBD) cannot be considered as RS, and therefore they cannot be considered when weighing notability. They seem also to be unaware that notability is not inherited - being photographed with notable people does not make one notable. Florence Hansen's keep vote also misses the mark - the existence of links to reliable sources like the NYT does not mean the article should be kept. Neither source gives the subject significant coverage - therefore, they are irrelevant in this discussion. (I'm sorry to be singling out the individuals for criticism in this vote - I don't want to single you out for specific criticism, but I thought it best to be specific about which argument I was referring to when commenting, and didn't want to do that without pinging you.) GirthSummit _(blether) 21:56, 4 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Delete. His career to date doesn't contribute enough to GNG. -- Dorama285 18:27, 05 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was no consensus. 78.26 _{(spin me / revolutions)} 15:58, 12 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Siraj ud Daula College

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No sources in WP:RS found. Fails WP:GNG. Störm (talk) 14:55, 20 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

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Keep. Accredited, degree-awarding tertiary institution.[23] -- Necrothesp (talk) 15:25, 20 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Necrothesp, for your information, it is not 'degree awarding'. Degrees are awarded by the University of Karachi. It is only affiliated. Störm (talk) 15:29, 20 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

That is purely hair-splitting. It is a degree college. And we have almost always kept these in the past. For your information, British polytechnics didn't award their own degrees either. But they were still notable institutions. -- Necrothesp (talk) 16:42, 20 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Delete - Fails general notability guidelines. I was unable to find sources to support GNG. Missvain (talk) 20:59, 21 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Keep - This is usual for Govt. colleges in the Indian sub-continent with little online presense. Not sure if it is the same "Siraj ud Daulah Govt Degree College" but sources may exist in Urdu language newspapers. KartikeyaS343 (talk) 05:54, 25 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was redirect to List of Bakuryū Sentai Abaranger characters. Merger already done by Miraclepine. This only addresses what to do with these two articles - whether the new List of Bakuryū Sentai Abaranger characters would survive an AfD of its own remains an open question. Sandstein 09:28, 20 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Wicked Lifeforms Evolien

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This article fails to establish notability. The main article has a cast list, which honestly should be good enough for a cookie-cutter yearly(?) series like this. I cannot see how this could be considered a justified split. TTN (talk) 13:00, 28 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

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Redirect to Bakuryū Sentai Abaranger. No sourced content to merge, but no doubt a valid thing to search for. ミラ P 21:53, 28 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Keep: There's a lot of information on this page, and the parent Bakuryū Sentai Abaranger has almost no text content. I agree that there's clearly an imbalance and both pages could use strong rewrites, but I don't think deleting this page improves our coverage of the show. -- Toughpigs (talk) 04:01, 29 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Merge with Abarangers into a new List of Bakuryū Sentai Abaranger characters. I consider one such list fine, despite NOTPLOT issues. – sgeureka ^t•c 12:30, 29 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Delete, or Merge with Abarangers into a new List of Bakuryū Sentai Abaranger characters. These character sections don't need multiple pages -- this page has almost no secondary sources and is filled with WP:FAN -- there is no notability. Page is mostly filled with plot detail, which shouldn't be on there as the episodes page exists for a reason. lullabying (talk) 18:24, 29 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

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Due to the similarity in the issues and the fact that I see a problem with a relist, I've added this article to the AFD. ミラ P 22:05, 5 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

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Redirect both to Bakuryū Sentai Abaranger, as this is a completely unreferenced messes that fails WP:GNG, WP:PLOT and contains no information worth merging, and the other article is the exact same except it has one reference that is a YouTube video. Devonian Wombat (talk) 05:35, 13 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Keep per Toughpigs. — Hunter Kahn 02:04, 15 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Comment to closing admin: The votes make this look like a no consensus, but I've addressed the merge arguments by merging both articles into a draft, so I ask you to redirect both articles without deleting their histories, lest it break the attribution between both articles and said draft mandated by Wikipedia's Creative Commons license. ミラP 02:21, 18 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
- Reasonable, I support making this draft mainspace and redirecting said articles there. --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 11:32, 19 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was merge to Foreign relations of Spain and Foreign relations of Zambia. The keep !voters do not provide significant guideline or policy based rationales for article retention. The first keep !vote does not provide any sources to verify their claim that more sources can be found, and the second keep !vote simply states that the article needs improvement, but does not provide evidence that the topic meets notability guidelines. North America¹⁰⁰⁰ 07:46, 12 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Spain–Zambia relations

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fails WP:GNG. there are no resident embassies, nor agreements, nor state visits. Even the article admits "relations are limited and are mainly framed in the context of relations with the EU of the Cotonou Agreement". trade is miniscule even the article says Zambia ranks as a customer in position 149 [of about 200 countries] LibStar (talk) 02:09, 21 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

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Keep We can certainly find more sources, and this is not an obvious WP:GNG fail. Ambrosiawater (talk) 02:35, 21 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

WP:MUSTBESOURCES LibStar (talk) 03:25, 21 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Weak Keep Definitely need more content and independent sources to make it a clear WP:GNG. PenulisHantu (talk) 05:03, 21 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

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~~Delete~~ Merge/Redirect Per Buidhe, below. Zero reliable sources supporting the notability of this topic; unsuitable for a stand alone article. Yilloslime (talk) 15:17, 28 January 2020 (UTC) updated by Yilloslime (talk) 01:28, 8 February 2020 (UTC).[reply]
Merge/Redirect to Foreign relations of Spain /Foreign relations of Zambia. I'm not finding significant coverage. b uidhe 16:44, 29 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

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Merge per buidhe. Senegambianamestudy (talk) 20:07, 7 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was keep. – bradv🍁 05:36, 23 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Pearl Aviation

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No indication meets WP:GNG. According to article, company operates a whopping three aircraft and has eight employees. Loksmythe (talk) 03:34, 28 January 2020 (UTC) Loksmythe (talk) 03:34, 28 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

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Keep - Pearl Aviation may only have 3 aircraft now, but it has some coverage over its history, and notability is not temporary. Pearl Aviation is a subsidiary of the Paspaley company, previously held contracts in the Northern Territory and New South Wales to operate air ambulance services (known as Royal Flying Doctor Service in NSW), and still holds a contract with Airservices Australia as part of a joint venture to survey their aircraft navigation systems across Australia. There appears to have been some coverage of Pearl back in and around 2010 when the NT Government put the air ambulance services out to tender and Pearl lost the contract because of its ageing aircraft and concerns with the company. See articles more generally here by way of example: report on donations to the Liberal Party by Paspaley at the time the contract was tendered, mention of the company in a history of air ambulance services in Australia, radio report on safety concerns raised by Pearl, more on runway safety, ABC article on the cancellation of the contract with Pearl, on the tender process, a mention here on the tender process, coroner report article about a death caused by a delay on a Pearl flight, on its Airservices Australia inspection services, article in 2016 about it downsizing, another one from 2016. I haven't done any searching of its potential history relating to Skywest either - which might have even more coverage. At worst, if the consensus is that there shouldn't be a standalone article, the content (which is sourced - though could be improved by the above) should be merged to the main Paspaley article as part of their operations. Bookscale (talk) 09:34, 28 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Comment The size of an organistion does not by itself indicate for or against notability. It seems to have more than three aircraft now.

There are also these to consider:

There may be quite sufficient to demonstrate notability. Aoziwe (talk) 10:13, 28 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Response As per WP:GHITS, posting links to show that there are "lots of sources" is no indication of notability. HighKing⁺⁺ 20:10, 1 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Confused There is also Virgin Australia Regional Airlines which seems to be sharing some of the same history as Pearl Aviation. Indeed the link for Skywest Aviation via Skywest Airlines (Australia) in the first sentence of the Pearl Aviation#History redirects to Virgin Australia Regional Airlines. I cannot make head nor tail of these two articles and how they are related or not. There needs to be a thorough review and partial rewrite of both perhaps to properly sort out the relationship or not. Perhaps we should be looking at a merge of both articles? Aoziwe (talk) 10:13, 28 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]
- Comment - it seems the company that originally ran Pearl Aviation split into two - one took the passenger services (and became Skywest, now Virgin Regional); the other took the other services (e.g. RDFS, navigation system checking services, etc.) and is what is now known as "Pearl Aviation". Having compared the Virgin article and the Pearl one, there seems very little overlap. A bit of a tidy up of the first few sentences in the history section should adequately do the trick. I wouldn't support merging as it would confuse the Virgin article given it is now the subset of a very different company! Bookscale (talk) 11:49, 28 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Merge With the Paspaley Company article. Which doesn't even seem to mention it, because it doesn't seem to have notability on its own otherwise. Since all the citations seem to be to the Paspaley companies site or a government one. --Adamant1 (talk) 07:15, 29 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]
- @Adamant1: - what about all the other sources I and Aoziwe have found? Have you read the other comments so far? Bookscale (talk) 10:35, 29 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  - Well, With Aoziwe's nla.gov source it seems you need a library account or something somewhere to view any of the articles it lists. So I can't really speak to those. Except that most of the sources seem to be from either Australasian Business Intelligence or Australian Nursing Journal. Both of which seem to have questionable notability. A nursing journal probably isn't reliable because it isn't really related to the industry. Just nurses that happen to fly in planes. So its not authoritative in relation to the subject. Other listed sources seem to be regional, like the North Queensland Register. Regional news outlets aren't good sources from my understanding. With your articles, the first one wouldn't load. The second isn't about the company. There's only a quick mention of it and there isn't real details. The third link says "page not found." So that's a nope. The forth is about The Australian Nursing Federation and not the company. Which is only mentioned twice briefly in the first two sentences. A random death on a plane doesn't seem notable even if there is an article about it. It's borderline sensationalism anyone and doesn't meet neutrality because according to the article "the poor service may have contributed to the death", not clearly caused it. The downsizing articles don't seem important either. Especially not on their own. --Adamant1 (talk) 11:01, 29 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    - Here is the third source. I don't agree with your assessment that just because you can't find a source it is worthless. And to suggest a Nursing Journal is not a reliable source about a company that carries out medical aviation services is ridiculous. Bookscale (talk) 09:09, 30 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]
      - I'm not sure what exactly your referencing, but I'll assume its not being able to access the articles in the .gov list. if you can't find or access a source its worthless because you can't add the relevant content from it to the article. You can't just cite a source devoid of qouting it either. Even if the source is about the subject. Both those things are pretty obvious. As far as the nursing journal goes, it doesn't matter if they carry out medical aviation services, it matters if they discuss the company in a substantial way and in the article you cited they didn't. Sorry, but Wikipedia articles aren't bibliographies of every document that might have mentioned a subject in passing. So, I don't really care about nursing journal articles (or any other source) that I can't access, read, or use to add content to an article. --Adamant1 (talk) 11:02, 30 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]
        But it's a demonstration that there are sources available - which is adequate for an AfD. Seriously, I really feel like giving up participating in these sometimes, you do all the research to demonstrate notability and yet come across editors who just can't be bothered and nothing is ever good enough. Bookscale (talk) 11:43, 30 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Bookscale: Your making it all about you and missing an extremely important point here because of it. One of the options in an AfD is to merge an article if the topic has enough coverage make it a notable subject for Wikipedia but not enough to warrant its own article. Ultimately its about improving the quality of Wikipedia. Not just confirming your opinion about a topic or keep an article when its un-warranted because "I put work into it." So, its about making A determination of notability, not THE determination of notability that I want. If it is merged that doesn't mean your work isn't for nothing. As the citations would still be used. I can understand your frustration though. Its pretty frustrating to take the time to review the sources someone provides just to mongered as a sexist like Aoziwe did to me below. We just have different opinions and that's fine. Don't let it discourage you though. We are all on the same side here. Also, read my quote below from the notability guidelines on having sources and that meaning the topic automatically warrants its own article. Hint, it does't and I don't think the sources do in this case. Again though, that's just my opinion. Your free to disagree. --Adamant1 (talk) 21:43, 30 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Keep There are demonstrably sources available, and in reliable publications. Just because they are not on line does not mean that they are of no value. Discounting publications with Just nurses that happen to fly in planes I suggest is either blatant sexist bias or gender neutral profession snobbery. Sometimes one needs to actually physically go to a library and read stuff. The sources are sustained and broad. There is quite sufficient WP:NEXIST to support WP:GNG. The histories of the two subjects need a rewrite to properly explain such, but AfD is not about CLEANUP. Aoziwe (talk) 12:48, 30 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Aoziwe: Per WP:NEXIST which you yourself cited "We require "significant coverage" in reliable sources so that we can actually write a whole article, rather than half a paragraph or a definition of that topic. If only a few sentences could be written and supported by sources about the subject, that subject does not qualify for a separate page, but should instead be merged into an article about a larger topic or relevant list." So its not just purely about the raw numbers of sources. I said multiple times my main issue was with the lack of enough coverage about the company in the nurses journal. It didn't have anything to do with the profession, let alone the sex of the people in it. If the article was about the topic of medical aviation fine. I would care less since that would mean there would be enough specific details about the actual topic of the article. Which is a company not a profession. As it is though, that's not the case. Your free to disagree, but I did take the time to read through your and Bookscales sources when I could have been doing other things to make an informed opinion. Discounting it as sexist when I was extremely clear about why I made the conclusion that the article should be merged for reasons that had absolutely nothing to do with gender, I didn't even mention it, is pretty disgusting. It's also actually sexist IMO to automatically equate nursing with gender. Let alone to use the sexism card if it comes up when sex had literally nothing to do with the topic. --Adamant1 (talk) 21:43, 30 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, we are free to agree to disagree. Aoziwe (talk) 23:46, 30 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Yeah totally. Making baseless claims of sexism, not so much. So hopefully you don't do it again. --Adamant1 (talk) 03:05, 31 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

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Speedy keep Clearly notable, and it was was formed and started operations in 1964 as Skywest Aviation. Ambrosiawater (talk) 20:24, 16 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was no consensus. Sandstein 19:19, 12 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Stars & Stripes Festival

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I have done a significant online search and, whilst there are lots of hits, all of them seem to come under WP:ROUTINE. I cannot find any sources that indicate notability for the festival, rather than as a routine, albeit successful, local festival. Cardiffbear88 (talk) 22:34, 20 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

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Weak keep Passes general notability guidelines, but many sources are local/regional. The article just needs a big facelift. Sources include:

"Stars & Stripes fest leaves Freedom Hill, heads for Oakland County" from Detroit Free Press
"Styx, Uncle Kracker, Seether to headline Stars & Stripes Festival" from Macomb Daily
"Stars & Stripes' promoters 'blown away' by festivals' success" from Royal Oak Tribune
"Stars & Stripes Festival moves from Freedom Hill to Novi" from The News-Herald
"Stars & Stripes comes to Sterling" from Sterling Heights Sentry
"Stars and Stripes Festival 2017, in photos" from The Daily Tribune

Missvain (talk) 19:41, 21 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Weak keep - I removed a lot of trivia, bolding, and cruft. Please add the citations before closing this discussion. Bearian (talk) 14:49, 27 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. Sandstein 19:19, 12 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Wightmans Corner, Rhode Island

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Besides these coordinates actually being in Kent County, Rhode Island (and within the incorporated East Greenwich, Rhode Island), I am unable to find anything establishing notability for this as a populated place. The USGS lists it as a locale. There was apparently the Wightman family farm and family gravesite there [24], but it's still described as being within a district of East Greenwich, not as a community or as its own notable place. Reywas92^Talk 00:32, 28 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

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delete Yet another GNIS scrape of a phrase on a topo map, generations of which show there was never a town/village/whatever. Mangoe (talk) 23:45, 4 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Comment. Was there ever a post office there? That would help to establish notability. Eastmain (talk • contribs) 17:02, 6 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was soft delete. Based on minimal participation, this uncontroversial nomination is treated as an expired PROD (a.k.a. "soft deletion"). Editors can request the article's undeletion. North America¹⁰⁰⁰ 07:55, 12 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Madidai Ka Mandir

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Run of the mill Hindu temple appears to fail WP:NBUILD and WP:GNG. Article has been tagged since 2008 for lack of sources and questionable notability. Skeletor3000 (talk) 21:16, 4 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was keep. qedk (t 桜 c) 11:35, 12 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Synthetic Breed

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Potentially non-notable band tagged as such since 2008. I was able to locate one single piece of potential RS here, though it's from a local Melbourne weekly. Skeletor3000 (talk) 21:08, 4 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete, Most references areto bands own web site. Additionally all references are broken, bands domain name has expried. Teraplane (talk) 22:25, 4 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Keep ~~Weak delete~~ ~~Delete~~ I could not find anything to indicate notability. Aoziwe (talk) 04:32, 5 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Changing to weak delete as per further non trivial references being found. Aoziwe (talk) 12:17, 8 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Changing to keep. If you look really hard there are actually plenty of non trivial sources. Not sure why they did not come up more readily in the first place. Aoziwe (talk) 11:36, 9 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Keep passes WP:BAND. Refs now support claim to headlining their own Australian tour, also supporting an international visitor, and releasing at least two studio albums. They are the subject of multiple, non-trivial articles by reliable independent sources.shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 10:23, 7 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks shaidar cuebiyar. You have got me up to a weak delete. Can you please advise which specific WP:BAND points you are relying on. I am not sure that I can properly match your new references to relevant criteria in NBAND. Aoziwe (talk) 11:02, 7 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

This source and the one I provided in the nom may amount to WP:BAND #1. Skeletor3000 (talk) 17:34, 7 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

WP:BAND#1 is met by current refs [2], [6], [8], [9] and [14]. #4 with [9]. #5 with refs [5], [6], [8] and [14]. Generally, an ensemble "may be notable if they meet at least one of the following criteria." Hence, I think they qualify for WP:BAND.shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 05:00, 9 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks. There is also [25] [26] [27] [28] ... Aoziwe (talk) 11:36, 9 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Note: the first of these is similar (same?) as ref [6] with same author.shaidar cuebiyar (talk) 08:20, 11 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Weak Keep. I've added the one IRS I could find doing a ProQuest database search of all Aust and NZ newspapers, which helps, but it's hardly the keystone of a solid notable page. Cabrils (talk) 03:03, 8 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Weak keep as has been improved with the addition of extra reliable sources, weak keep because i'm not familiar with all of the refs except the newspaper ones, imv Atlantic306 (talk) 17:55, 8 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was keep. It has also been renamed to List of HFX Wanderers FC records and statistics per consensus achieved below. (non-admin closure) NNADIGOODLUCK (Talk|Contribs) 20:59, 11 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

HFX Wanderers FC chronicle

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One season and all trivial. Could easily be merged into the club article. Walter Görlitz (talk) 20:56, 4 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

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Deletion opposed. Such kinds of articles exist for many other teams, even for at least one example of a reserve team. Examples below:

One alternative to deletion would be to do a merge. If you’ll notice in some of my examples, a list of seasons and records/statistics tend to be separate. This HFX article was written with those two topics merged into one to make it more substantial, especially in light of there only being one season of information displayed.

Another alternative is to re-title the article to be more in line with other functionally similar articles such as the ones provided as examples. However, this would make the title rather unwieldy, which is why “chronicle” was used as an alternative.Lucky Strike (talk) 16:53, 5 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

- The old WP:OSE argument. I am fully aware that other such articles exist, but as I stated in the nomination, those are multiple-season articles. In two or three seasons, it may make sense to have such an article, but all of that is there now can easily fit into the team article. Walter Görlitz (talk) 20:01, 5 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Comment This seems to be a valid spinoff article. SportingFlyer T·C 06:53, 7 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

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Keep as valid article, just needs renaming to 'seasons' or 'history' or similar. Giant Snowman 08:24, 7 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Keep but rename per GiantSnowman. Smartyllama (talk) 13:53, 7 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Keep: perhaps this page was created prematurely but I don't see a reason to created it now. Looking around Wikipedia there are hundreds of articles titled List of X records and statistics so if we are renaming the page, I'd go with that. BLAIXX 14:11, 7 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. qedk (t 桜 c) 11:35, 12 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Amar Kirtan

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This article has had no references for five years, and I was not able to even find this movie on Google. I don't think it's notable enough to stay on Wikipedia... (Note: This is the first deletion I have ever nominated, let me know if I did something wrong) King of Scorpions 20:36, 4 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete - I Googled the film and can't find any coverage in reliable sources, including reviews, except movie database pages that confirm the film exists, and has a soundtrack. The lack of coverage fails WP:NFILM. TimTempleton ^(talk) ^(cont) 22:42, 4 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

comment: I could find one review. But given the fact movie was released in 1954, and Internet was not that much common in India at that time; finding the reviews, and coverage on internet is going to be very difficult. But everything can be verified in non-reliable sources. Given the non promotional tone of the article, and the historical angle; I think we should retain the article. —usernamekiran (talk) 22:22, 5 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
nope. Its not a review. I think that website wasnt operational in 50's. But I still think we should retain the article. —usernamekiran (talk) 22:26, 5 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
I was trying to be funny in my comments above, but later I realised its not that much funny, and not much evident either. —usernamekiran (talk) 20:38, 9 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Delete The internet did not exist anywhere in the 1950s. However we do not create articles without sources, and the sourcing is not enough to show notability.John Pack Lambert (talk) 20:05, 9 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Delete: It seems like a very minor film, with hardly anything about it online. Dflaw4 (talk) 11:29, 12 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was keep. Any merge discussions can happen outside of this debate. Ritchie333 ^(talk) ^(cont) 23:35, 12 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Mindless Ones

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Fails WP:GNG. All sources are primary. TTN (talk) 20:22, 4 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

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Keep: Just because the article is primarily sourced does not mean it has failed general notability guidelines. It just means it failed to prove so and that it is imperfect. The Mindless Ones are servants of Dormammu used just as much as he is if not more. I found pretty much a lot of sourcing to discuss the characters talking about Dormammu primarily. Hopefully I will find more. Jhenderson⁷⁷⁷ 20:46, 4 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Keep. A brief search turned up a significant amount of coverage in reliable sources, enough to satisfy me that this article meets notability standards. I'd encourage Jhenderson777 to consider adding some to the article and expanding it as he searched for more sources, but I agree with his point that the subject matter is notable and the article as it stands now needs improvement, not deletion. — Hunter Kahn 21:13, 4 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I'd request you post some because I vastly disagree with your concept of significant. TTN (talk) 21:21, 4 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
- If it's all the same to you, we tend to constantly go back-and-forth in these discussions and end up just going around in circles without coming to any kind of agreement and just clogging up the AFD. So I'd just as soon avoid that in this discussion, especially since the loaded wording of your request indicates you are prepared to disagree with me no matter what I share. You are free to conduct a search for sources yourself, though I would certainly hope you attempted to do so before bringing this to AFD... — Hunter Kahn 21:25, 4 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Redirect to Dormammu. I'm not finding much coverage at all in reliable sources regarding them. They are covered in plenty of non-reliable sources (wikis, fansites, etc), are mentioned briefly in some plot summaries, and are mentioned in relation to Dormamu (i.e. "Dormamu uses his servants, the Mindless ones" kind of sentences). Pretty much the only coverage I'm finding that don't fall into those categories are a couple reports from last year where an artist revealed some unused concept art for the Dr. Strange movie on his twitter, which is hardly enough to support an independent article. They are covered on Dormamu's page, so redirecting there would make sense. Rorshacma (talk) 21:31, 4 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Comment: I'm not seeing anything at all in my usual sources -- Google Books, Internet Archive, Amazon and my own bookshelf. :) There's a post about a possible Easter egg in the first Doctor Strange movie. I think if the Mindless Ones actually show up in a movie, that's when there starts to be coverage about the characters. -- Toughpigs (talk) 21:41, 4 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I typed in mindless ones Marvel and got some results in Google News. I am not not really very wiki active right now though to be thorough though. Jhenderson⁷⁷⁷ 22:01, 4 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

~~Redirect~~ to Dormammu. Much like Rorschacma, I was able to find a smattering of brief mentions, but nothing that I would consider significant coverage in a reliable source. _signed,Rosguill ^talk 22:02, 4 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Sources that at least reference or more of the characters:

Jhenderson⁷⁷⁷ 19:22, 5 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I think that these three sources, [29], [30], [31] go a fair way towards establishing notability, but I think that there still may be a case to make for WP:NOPAGE that this information is best merged to Dormammu. As I'm not terribly familiar with this corner of Marvel comics, my vote can be interpreted as on the fence between weak keep and weak merge to Dormammu. _signed,Rosguill ^talk 19:48, 5 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

It's ultimately much of nothing. 1. Basic in-universe summary. 2. What seems to be some little indie band, album itself has 10 results on Google including that article. 3. Trivial movie speculation relating directly to Dormammu. 4. More speculation, but even less attention. 5. Just a single plot name mention, not even a sentence. 6. Plot summary only. 7. More speculation. 8 & 9. Extremely narrow listicles in which they are guaranteed to appear because there's only so many major villains to even list. There is nothing from which to even write an article. TTN (talk) 20:56, 5 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Keep - Let this page stay. They are notable creatures in the Marvel Comics universe and foot soldiers of Dormammu. Also, @Jhenderson777:, @Hunter Kahn:, and @Toughpigs: are right about their claims. --Rtkat3 (talk) 20:30, 5 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Keep - Minor characters for sure, but they get enough attention to meet notability standard. -- Toughpigs (talk) 06:26, 6 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Redirect to Dormammu. Per TTN, the references brought forth do not demonstrate WP:SIGCOV, only WP:TRIVIAL mentions. The article is fancruft that fails GNG._{ZXCVBNM (TALK)} 13:15, 9 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Keep - Jesus Christ, TTN, are you seriously still at it with these disruptive nomination spammings? This is yet another one that passes WP:GNG that you clearly did no research on. I figured you had slowed down since last December, but it looks like you are still going at it.

For those unaware, TTN's modus operandi is to go through as many fictional character articles as he can at once, scroll down to the References sections, and mindlessly nominate as many Start-Class articles as he can based only on that. As we have been over, this is highly disruptive and violates virtually every policy, essay, and guideline. Your behaviour has also been opposed by multiple users (at least as many that support you) and you have been warned repeatedly to cut it out and open a discussion at WP:DRN, per the processes outlined at WP:Dispute Resolution, WP:Consensus, and WP:BRD. Your philosophy seen here and here also borders on WP:NOTHERE, and you have been banned in the past for similar behaviours by the Arbitration Committee. You really are going to make us take this to ANI or ArbCom, aren't you?

You do not have a consensus and at least a few of your nominations (including Goblin (Marvel Comics)) are going to have to be completely re-discussed due to erroneous rationales. You and Eagles247 attempting to strawman everyone that has called out the (very demonstrable) problems with the way you handle nominations as "radical inclusionists", not to mention ranting about imaginary conspiracies, isn't doing you any favours either. Dark Knight 2149 06:24, 12 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

It’s called having different standards. This same AfD could easily be the reverse depending on who decided to take the time to participate. That’s the only particular deciding factor here. You and some others here think it passes GNG (and one literally doesn’t care whatsoever if it passes any policy or guideline) with these poor sources. Other people would not. If you are going to make a report, make it. Do not threaten it. Do not linger around for the next two weeks. Take whatever draft you have from last time, edit it, and post it. This will be my only response to you. TTN (talk) 09:30, 12 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
No clue why I'm randomly attacked here. Did you ever file your long-awaited ANI report Darkknight2149? Stop hijacking discussions to get in your personal vendetta, or I'll go to ANI myself about this persistent disruption. Eagles 24/7 (C) 13:32, 12 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

This wasn't an empty threat, I filed one. Eagles 24/7 (C) 15:10, 12 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Eagles247: There's no "personal vendetta", as I will soon outline at the ANI thread. You just unintentionally shed light on the genuine disruption happening at AfD. I was also the one who has been attacked by TTN throughout these threads, and seeing how you have reacted here and at Wikipedia_talk:Notability_(fiction)#Deletion_of_articles_about_fiction is astounding coming from an administrator. If anything, the thread will likely result in the WP:DRN thread that you and TTN have been intentionally trying to avoid. I will be going over both you and TTN at WP:ANI. Dark Knight 2149 17:01, 12 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Keep or merge to Dormammu per above comments since there are WP:RS to retain, per WP:PRESERVE and WP:ATD. BOZ (talk) 11:32, 12 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. qedk (t 桜 c) 11:36, 12 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Amini Cishugi

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nominating again on the basis that he still isn't notable. Despite the non consensus close last time (due to low participation) the only argument for a keep was by the creator and without actual support from independent reliable sources. A search in french and other languages also reveals no additional coverage or sources. I've included a source breakdown this time for others to evaluate.

Source assessment table
Source	Significant coverage?	Count source toward GNG?
https://books.apple.com/fr/author/amini-cishugi/id1390245392	link to purchase self published books	✘ No
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCrEbDdjhkfKd66Yx_rvxTOw/about	his yt channel with 15k subscribers, while we don't focus on subscriber count, is certainly not an indication that he is notable.	✘ No
http://www.243stars.com/qui-est-amini-cishugi-lauteur-du-celebre-livre-histoire-danna-beckinsales-marie-30303030.html	this is an unreliable user generated site.	✘ No
"Pleasure of the Spirit and Eyes – Novelas Dream Editions", Smashwords. Retrieved August 8, 2018. ISBN 9780463783887	another self published book	✘ No
https://books.apple.com/fr/book/mon-copain-de-new-york-city/id1393140262	another self published book purchase link	✘ No
https://afrique.eu.org/10002-jeunes-leaders-amini-cishugi-un-ecrivain-congolais-que-vous-devriez-connaitre/	this is a press release as per the author line	✘ No
https://fr.allafrica.com/stories/201004270608.html	admittedly i don't speak french but this is clearly not about him.	✘ No
https://www.kobo.com/at/nl/ebook/le-vendredi-de-ben-parker	another link to purchase his self published book	✘ No
https://books.apple.com/fr/book/le-secret/id1455161996	another link to purchase his self published book	✘ No
https://www.barnesandnoble.com/enwiki/w/mon-copain-de-new-york-city-amini-cishugi/1128816187?ean=2940155272083	another link to purchase his self published book	✘ No
https://www.kobo.com/at/nl/ebook/twenty-questions-of-self-knowledge	another link to purchase his self published book...	✘ No
This table may not be a final or consensus view; it may summarize developing consensus, or reflect assessments of a single editor. Created using {{source assess table}}.

Praxidicae (talk) 20:10, 4 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete per rationale. Significant coverage has not been identified. b uidhe 21:53, 4 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Delete per nom, and no reliable evidence of notability. Shelbystripes (talk) 22:10, 4 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Delete per nom. Not a single reliable source indicating notability. Best, GPL93 (talk) 18:29, 5 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was keep. qedk (t 桜 c) 11:36, 12 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Lateral coital position

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Fails WP:GNG. Related to Woman on top. Störm (talk) 20:09, 4 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

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Keep or merge with the Woman on top article. Then someone should cut pieces of the content for quality and source the material well. But I must state that "related to Woman on top" does not mean "is the same thing as Woman on top." Looking on Google Books (without the "wikipedia" addition given for the search field above), it appears that Störm did not do a WP:BEFORE job before nominating this article for deletion. There is enough material for the article to stand on its own or go the WP:No page route. But the topic should be covered on Wikipedia. For example, this "Discovering Your Couple Sexual Style: Sharing Desire, Pleasure, and Satisfaction" source, from Routledge, page 69, addresses history regarding the sex position. Flyer22 Frozen (talk) 22:33, 4 February 2020 (UTC) Updated post. Flyer22 Frozen (talk) 22:53, 4 February 2020 (UTC) [reply]
Keep. No. This is extensively covered in the print sex literature, not to mention online. I can provide an extensive and by no means exhaustive book list (if you're keen on having an online adventure, I encourage you to look elsewhere too!):

Again, there is plenty of coverage in relevant sexology books. Just because this is about sex shouldn't make you uncomfortable enough to nominate for deletion. Best, PK650 (talk) 04:35, 6 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Keep per the evidence given above; or else merge to Woman on top. Crossroads ^-talk- 07:04, 6 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. No notability established Nosebagbear (talk) 22:07, 11 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Helios Eclipse

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Deleted after an AfD discussion in 2006. Recreated in 2007 and unsourced since then. No reliable independent sources found to support notability. Mccapra (talk) 19:59, 4 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete. No notability established and article has no sources. lullabying (talk) 01:28, 7 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Delete. No notability to be found, this should have been sent to CSD a long time ago. Just noting as well that I am removing this from Anime & Manga as it is out of our scope (Wikipedia:WikiProject Anime and manga#What topics we do not cover). - Knowledgekid87 (talk) 15:37, 11 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. Consensus that notability is not established Nosebagbear (talk) 22:08, 11 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Henri Ben Ezra

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Promotional, and not notable. The refs are either mere notices or promotional interview,, or about Snatatchbot. The previousk eep seems to have been based on Snatchbot being DGG ( talk ) 19:30, 4 February 2020 (UTC)n , but there's no article here. DGG ( talk ) 19:28, 4 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete a non-notable businessman.John Pack Lambert (talk) 00:24, 10 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Delete Fails WP:GNG and is definitely paid article. Angus1986 (talk) 15:12, 10 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 19:27, 11 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Dellbee

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Fails WP:NMUSICIAN and WP:GNG. No notable works, awards or associated acts. Only sources available online seem to be music download sites, blogs and social media. SuperMarioMan (Talk) 19:18, 4 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete - Doesn’t seem to satisfy WP:MUSICBIO & generally does not scale WP:GNG.Celestina007 (talk) 21:03, 7 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Delete. The subject is an unknown figure in the Nigerian music industry; he fails WP:GNG and WP:MUSICBIO. Versace1608 ^{Wanna Talk?} 10:56, 8 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 19:27, 11 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

OneMillionOfUs

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I don't see any evidence of meeting WP:Notability on my own. Only one of the sources listed in the article, this one, gives any independent coverage. The rest are either instances of it being included in a list of organizations; articles about Jerome Foster describing him as "founder and executive director of" with no further attention to the organization; and one interview in which Foster himself is the person talking about the organization. Largoplazo (talk) 17:38, 4 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete - article cites to every website that mentions the organization - from what I can tell, none of the articles discuss this organization in any depth (just mentions the org in passing or says x, founder of OneMillionOfUs, without anything more). As there is no in depth coverage in reliable sources, I don't see how this passes our notability threshold. ‡ Єl Cid of ᐺalencia ^ᐐT₳LKᐬ 18:49, 4 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Delete. I agree with the above comments. Scant coverage, and what exists isn't exclusively about the organization. In fact, most of the articles are about the founders, or those where the organization is merely listed among others. PK650 (talk) 04:40, 6 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. Sandstein 19:21, 12 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Kostyantyn Chyzhyk

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No claim to any notability. Fails WP:BIO. Deleted in Ukrainian Wikipedia. Mitte27 (talk) 15:57, 4 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

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Does seem a not unimportant post. What notability policy governs government appointees? Hyperbolick (talk) 17:01, 4 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

NPOL is vague on whether or not elected/appointed status matters, so WP:POLOUTCOMES addresses something for "sub-cabinet officials". ミラ P 21:08, 10 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Delete. Civil servants at the "deputy minister" level can certainly qualify for Wikipedia articles if they're properly referenced to sufficient reliable source coverage about them in media to clear WP:GNG, but are not handed any automatic notability freebies just because it's technically verifiable that they exist. But this is written like a résumé, not like an encyclopedia article, and the references aren't getting him over GNG — out of six footnotes, four primary sources that aren't support for notability at all, like a press release from his own employer and a newspaper piece where he's the bylined author of the content and not its subject and two YouTube videos. And the only two sources that are to real media just glancingly mention his name in the process of not being substantively about him, which means they aren't getting him over the bar by themselves either if they're the only reliable sources in play. Bearcat (talk) 17:06, 5 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Delete. Not notable. LefcentrerightTalk (plz ping) 18:21, 7 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Lefcentreright: Is notable. See my explanations why. ミラ P 21:08, 10 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Keep (in spite of the article quality) as an outright WP:NPOL pass, and WP:POLOUTCOMES states that Sub-cabinet officials [...] are usually considered notable, especially if they have had otherwise notable careers. Besides, we just voted to keep a similar article from this country last month, and notability tends to be different between Wikipedias. ミラ P 12:52, 8 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Sub-cabinet officials are accepted as notable if they can be shown to be the subject of enough reliable source coverage to pass WP:GNG. They are not handed an automatic notability freebie, or an exemption from having to have any notability-supporting reliable sources, just because they exist. Bearcat (talk) 15:18, 8 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Yeah they are, as shown in that AFD. Besides, WP:N says that [a] topic is presumed to merit an article if: It meets either the general notability guideline below, or the criteria outlined in a subject-specific guideline listed in the box on the right; and [i]t is not excluded under the What Wikipedia is not policy. WP:NPOL is a "subject-specific guideline" and covers [p]oliticians and judges who have held international, national [...] office and is vague on who to apply it to, so we have WP:POLOUTCOMES to determine that, and we have something addressing "sub-cabinet officials". ミラ P 21:06, 10 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Delete This position needs adequate sourcing to show notability and we do not have adequate sourcing.John Pack Lambert (talk) 00:31, 10 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was redirect to Showcase (comics). Content can be merged from history if desired. Sandstein 19:21, 12 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

The Maniaks

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This fails to establish notability. Deprodder cites "Hero-A-Go-Go," but that contains coverage on a single page (pg. 261) with no particular commentary other than a reference to a band parody trend at the time. The most you could do is use it in place of primary material to describe some of the plot info. They also cite "Can Rock & Roll Save the World?," but that is literally a single mention of their name (pg. 170) in reference to some other group. That is the literal definition of trivial mention. The threshold of inclusion would need to be greatly lowered for those to establish notability. The topic can simply be covered in Showcase (comics). TTN (talk) 12:03, 28 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

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Keep per WP:NEXIST. I've got some sources I can list here; I think the subject is marginal but interesting. If we put our collective libraries together then we may have enough. -- Toughpigs (talk) 02:10, 29 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Hero-A-Go-Go: Hero-A-Go-Go: Campy Comic Books, Crimefighters, & Culture of the Swinging Sixties by Michael Eury, TwoMorrows Publishing (2017). RS historical survey, commentary presented within a real-world historical context.
DC Comics News: Blog post with behind-the-scenes info and historical context.
Scott Shaw's Oddball Comics: Blog post with detailed review and background info.
Bully's Comics: Blog post with snarky review that includes discussion of the lead character's return in modern comics.
Weird Science DC Comics: Blog post with snarky but detailed review.
Gone and Forgotten: Brief blog post.

Seems more like a bottom of the barrel obscure topic that deserves a paragraph on the its parent article. TTN (talk) 02:17, 29 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Delete A passing page in a book and..blogs. ValarianB (talk) 18:50, 3 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

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Merge to Showcase (comics) - notability is questionable at best, but we can keep some basic info about creators and premise in the relevant notes section of the table at the target page. --Killer Moff- ill advisedly sticking his nose in since 2011 (talk) 16:19, 4 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Redirect/Selective Merge to Showcase (comics)- Minor group that appeared in a total of three comic book issues. The sources provided in the AFD are not valid sources to establish notability - the one book actually is a decent source, but the rest are all blog posts that are not considered to be reliable. The single source is not sufficient to pass the WP:GNG. A redirect to the main series article would be logical, though. And I suppose a selective merge as suggested by Killer Moff would be fine, even though I find that chart detailing every issue of the series to be a bit odd and excessive detail. Rorshacma (talk) 20:40, 4 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Delete or redirect to Showcase (comics). A shortlived plot device, nothing sourced to merge. The sources listed above (blog posts!) should largely not be used to reference or improve this topic, as they are unreliable. – sgeureka ^t•c 15:54, 5 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was keep. Article has now been rewritten by PCN02WPS and the consensus is now clear to keep. (non-admin closure) NNADIGOODLUCK (Talk|Contribs) 18:21, 11 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

2020 FIA Motorsport Games

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Patent nonsense. This event is scheduled for October 2020, but is described here as if it has already happened.

So I suggest deletion per WP:TNT. If the events happen and is notable, an article can be created which doesn't rely on time travel. BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 11:08, 28 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Keep. It is a continuation of the 2019 FIA Motorsport Games, and it is the notable event. It should be rewrited not deleted. Corvus tristis (talk) 17:29, 28 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

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Keep - article will be expanded as competition grows nearer, I rewrote part of it to take out the past tense. PCN02WPS (talk | contribs) 15:47, 4 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Keep current year event. WP:NOTCLEANUP Lightburst (talk) 02:54, 9 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. Sandstein 09:38, 20 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Abby Barry Bergman

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Doesn't meet WP:BIO or WP:GNG. Boleyn (talk) 06:47, 28 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

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Weak delete. I found three reviews, but they only cover one coauthored book. I don't think it's quite enough for WP:AUTHOR and there seems to be little else. —David Eppstein (talk) 07:46, 28 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@David Eppstein: could this article be redirected to one about the book which seems to meet WP:NBOOK? TJMSmith (talk) 12:34, 28 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

If some non-COI editor cares enough about the subject to make an article about the book, sure. —David Eppstein (talk) 17:10, 28 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Delete – I can't find anything that would make her or her book pass GNG. Missvain (talk) 16:56, 28 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]
~~Keep~~ Per WP:AUTHOR "1. The person is regarded as an important figure or is widely cited by peers or successors." - the work is cited in Teaching Green, The New Teaching Elementary Science, Science Curriculum and The greenhouse-effect experiment (behind a paywall but Google says they cite Jacobson & Bergman Science for Children). I have also added two sources to the article. The book source is more substantial with the NYT source being a trivial mention in the obituary of his co-author. As a side note, the article text says he is male but the article is claimed by Wikiproject Women Writers - I am guessing that someone got a little confused when they saw the name Abby (unless it is the text that is wrong, or the subject has had a change in gender). From Hill To Shore (talk) 02:12, 30 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Another trawl looking for sources reveals that his 1998 work was also cited in "No limits to teach(er)" but how?, The Duties, Responsibilities, and Challenges of Opening a New Elementary School and Elementary Principals' Perspectives on Opening New Schools in a Large Urban School District, among others. I am not sure how "wide" the "widely cited by peers" has to be for WP:AUTHOR but he does get a lot of mentions. From Hill To Shore (talk) 20:53, 30 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Changing to Weak delete. While I think that he barely scrapes over the bar of notability, two exhaustive searches for online sources give little detail, even from trivial mentions. There is so little information that we are probably close to repeating the "about the author" section of his own book. For me this is a case of an article that would be useful to Wikipedia, if we had the reliable sources to take us beyond a list of his works. From Hill To Shore (talk) 00:09, 15 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

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Weak Delete, or redirect to article on the book. I also searched for reviews of other books without luck, although likely I was not as careful as David Eppstein. As far as citations, he has two pubs with about 40 citations each, which doesn't convince me. Russ Woodroofe (talk) 16:32, 13 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Delete The sources are weak for WP:GNG and the books published haven't met WP:NAUTHOR, even with the identification of additional works. Alansohn (talk) 23:22, 18 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. 78.26 _{(spin me / revolutions)} 21:21, 11 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Tunnel Inn, California

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There are issues with relying on GNIS in California too. Tunnel Inn is not an unincorporated community, it was – you guessed it – an inn! See topo map (top center) in similar font to Portal Inn. Apparently they had good steak and the employees participated in a bowling league? Reywas92^Talk 01:25, 28 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

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Comment You should inform the article creator of this nomination, per Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion#After_nominating:_Notify_interested_projects_and_editors; it is the courteous thing to do. --{{u|Mark viking}} {Talk} 20:03, 28 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

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Comment Did you run the coordinates through google maps? There appears to be a town there called "Tunnel Inn/Portal Inn".Americanfreedom (talk) 19:01, 4 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
I'm very well aware of this... Google imports its data from the shitty GNIS, which also says Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Susie, Washington is a "populated place" so it shows up on Google Maps! This is not the name of this settlement, and by the way, "town" is legally defined as an incorporated place in CA. Reywas92^Talk 20:45, 4 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
- @Reywas92: "Shitty"? Uh-oh, looks like someone forgot WP:CIVIL was a thing...Americanfreedom (talk) 04:34, 5 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  L-O-fuckin-L, I've wasted too many hours cleaning up shitty articles like this one mass-created from this shitty database. Way too many damn errors in its classifications that people shouldn't be relying on to blindly assume notability. Reywas92^Talk 05:47, 5 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

delete There's definitely a clump of houses and such in this area, but nothing except for words on topo maps gives it a name. Searching for it comes up with nothing but typical geoclickbait, and less of that than usual. Mangoe (talk) 02:27, 5 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Weak Keep. I found at least three Tunnel Inns in California, one in Lafayette, CA, which is the one Reywas92 mentioned as having good steaks and a bowling league. There seems to have been another in Sacramento. By searching for "Tunnel Inn Shasta", I did find these articles Bar fight at the Tunnel Inn, which supports the Tunnel Inn being only an inn, Timber blaze under control, says "prevent the fire from reaching the Tunnel Inn area, a heavily populated area," supports keeping the article, Obit that mentions that the wife and son were "both of the Tunnel Inn District," which supports keeping the article. Looking at WP:GEOLAND, this place is not obviously in the category of "Populated, legally recognized places", though it did have a FIPS code and it is listed in a California Roster of Federal, State, County and City Officials 1964, so it does have some legal recognition. As far as "Populated places without legal recognition," I've only found trivial coverage in newspapers, so it fails that test. On the basis of the FIPS code and being in the roster, I feel the article meets WP:GEOLAND. Cxbrx (talk) 18:20, 11 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
All of the railroad spurs of Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Susie, Washington have the same five-digit census codes. They're automatically provided for everything in the GNIS and is not a statement of being a legally recognized populated place. The California Roster I assume uses the same data from USGS, but the same page that lists "Tunnel Inn, Shasta" has a "Union Creek, Trinity", which is only in the GNIS as a stream, as well as "Union Air Terminal, Los Angeles": Hollywood Burbank Airport is not a populated place! Reywas92^Talk 19:38, 11 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks! I'm not that up on FIPS. Good call on the Roster. Until I found those two sources, I would have moved for weak delete, so I'll change my position to Weak Delete now. Cxbrx (talk) 19:46, 11 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was keep. Keep votes predominate and have stronger policy-based arguments, having found coverage in reliable sources. Suggest considering a merge outside of AfD process. (non-admin closure) b uidhe 06:56, 21 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Muslim Rashtriya Manch

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Every sources are routine coverages. The article fails WP:NORG and WP:GNG. S. M. Nazmus Shakib (talk) 16:26, 28 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete per WP:MILL, WP:NOTDIR, and WP:SOAP. This is yet another minor, local charity, which probably does good work, but we're not a directory nor a soap-box. Bearian (talk) 17:07, 31 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Comment This source, for example, is far from "routine coverage". I am concerned about the speed at which this user sends articles for deletion and whether they are actually conducting a WP:BEFORE. This is one of the three articles they AfD'd in eight minutes and another user expressed a similar concern on their talk page last month. Dee 03 03:26, 1 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
~~Delete~~ per WP:MILL, WP:NOTDIR, and WP:SOAP. The org fails WP:ORGCRIT to have a separate page. The HT link posted by Dee03 is an interview of the president of this organisation and hence it cannot be used to claim notability. The bar is much higher in ORGCRIT. DBig Xrayᗙ 19:03, 2 February 2020 (UTC) Changing my vote to merge with Sangh Parivar as its parent organization--DBig Xrayᗙ 08:57, 17 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Keep, clearly a notable organization. The fact that you might dislike the organization is irrelevant in an AfD debate. --Soman (talk) 18:34, 3 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Keep It is pretty clear with sources like [32] [33] [34] [35] [36] [37] [38] that there is evidence of sufficient significant coverage to merit a standalone page. In fact, this organization's petition against Triple talaq in India was signed by over a million Muslims [39] and the entity seems to have received widespread media attention from across the world [40] [41]. Besides, not-for-profit organizations need not meet ORGCRIT. Dee 03 19:45, 3 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

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[1] is an opinion piece.

[2] a short article that mentions some of the works of the org.

[3] (posted a second time in this thread) an interview of the president of this organisation and hence it cannot be used to claim notability

[4] acceptable source focussing on the spread of the org in Kashmir

[5] acceptable

[6], [7], [8], [10] are again WP:ROUTINE news articles with interview of office holders.

[9] to some extent appears acceptable but it mostly focuses on the interview of the office bearers.

Kautilya3 your link below doesnt work, please fix the link. I think MRM should be merged to RSS or to Sangh Parivar if it survives the AfD--DBig Xrayᗙ 08:56, 6 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Going by your comment, this organization breezes past the alternate criteria for non-commercial organizations. Moving on... Dee 03 21:43, 8 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Moreover, as pointed out elsewhere, WP:ROUTINE only applies to the notability of events, so it should not be used as an argument on notability of individuals and organizations. --Soman (talk) 00:28, 9 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Dee03, MRM is a Muslim WP:BRANCH of RSS, so it still needs an independent notability pass if it has to exist as a seperate article, and I don't see how it breezes past the criteria. Soman, if you dont want WP:ROUTINE to be invoked, then please do not use routine coverage of events in the newspapers. --DBig Xrayᗙ 19:33, 14 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Asking us to evaluate this using BRANCH has become slightly repetitive and redundant at this point, given that BRANCH is being cited incorrectly to begin with. As demonstrated by multiple editors, this organization is notable on its own, unlike recently deleted ones like BJYM Karnataka and BJYM Mumbai, which were indeed examples of BRANCH, i.e., individual chapters of national and international organizations. MRM passes the alternate criteria by satisfying two (NONPROFIT and GNG), if not all three, of the notability requirements outlined there. Dee 03 08:09, 15 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Keep - I was vacillating till now, but I see that Dee03 has made a pretty persuasive argument. Andersen & Damle's recent book is said to have a detailed coverage of this organisation as well.[42] -- Kautilya3 (talk) 20:13, 4 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Keep The organization has received significant source coverage (including national newspapers) of the largest English-speaking country in the world. AugusteBlanqui (talk) 17:46, 8 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Keep - between the sources and Dee's reasoning, notability seems to be established. Nosebagbear (talk) 22:14, 11 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete Non notable WP:BRANCH of an organisation. Fails WP:GNG and WP:NORG.- Akhiljaxxn (talk) 19:47, 12 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Delete Not only that org fails on notability, it fails on verifiability as well. If it somehow survives AfD, it should be merged into RSS or any of its affiliate articles with some clarifications, pronto (entire string on RSS articles suffers from extreme nationalism bias and POV problems, lacking basic info and context).-౪ Santa ౪^99° 17:55, 13 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Keep meets WP:GNG, the WP:THREE are: Chapter 6 of the book linked above by Walter K. Andersen and Shridhar D. Damle published in 2019 by C. Hurst & Co. and distributed in the US by Oxford University Press, The Economic Times 2015 [43], and Deutsche Welle 2017 [44]. Put "Muslim Rashtriya Manch" into WP:RSSE or Google News and there is a lot of other coverage, e.g., India Today 2019 [45], Indo-Asian News Service via The New Indian Express 2019 [46], and Newslaundry 2016 (not sure if that one is an RS). I also think this Hindustan Times 2014 article [47] counts as GNG because it is both an interview and also independent reporting in the journalist's own voice. I also think The Washington Post 2019 opinion piece [48] counts for notability even if it's opinion. But even without the HT and WaPo, and take out the routine or otherwise questionable stuff, this is still a GNG keep based on the sourcing out there. Levivich 20:37, 13 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Leviv I have reviewed the links and I note that all of them are referring it as RSS body,

RSS backed Muslim Rashtriya Manch on ... (In its title)
...some Muslims have joined the RSS, a hardline... (in its opening line)
RSS wing reaches out to Muslims (in its title)
This RSS body is a bridge between Muslims and Sangh(in its title)

RSS is a notable organisation and these appear to be dependent coverage based on the popularity of RSS as it is a WP:BRANCH of RSS. Accordingly I have changed my vote from Delete to Merge with Sangh Parivar (also fine with a merge with RSS) as I think we should have the info about this wing of RSS somewhere. Sangh Parivar being the umbrella term for RSS organizations. seems to be the best alternative the other being Rashtriya Swayamsevak SanghDBig Xrayᗙ 08:57, 17 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I’m not surprised that every source discussing MSM also discuss RSS since MSM is part of RSS, but although RSS is mentioned, the articles I linked to are in-depth coverage of MSM, not RSS, and that’s why I think it should be kept (although I see it as a WP:PAGEDECIDE/WP:PAGESIZE issue more than a notability issue, so I’m not terribly opposed to a merge). Levivich (lulz) 23:12, 19 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Levivich, These links are actually introducing it as RSS wing and talking about MRM in context of RSS. All these articles make it clear that they consider the reader to be familiar with RSS and unfamiliar with MRM. Had MRM been notable to merit a separate article, the media would have jumped into discussing MRM exclusively. RSS page, I note that has "readable Prose size (text only) = 52 kB (8592 words) so clearly RSS article is not WP:TOOBIG per the WP:PAGESIZE. regarding WP:PAGEDECIDE, I would say that it actually suggests to merge since MRM so far has basically been a messenger for the RSS to communicate RSS' policies to the muslim masses. There is no major work that can be discussed in this exclusive article and the reader is better served by reading about MRM as a section in RSS. --DBig Xrayᗙ 09:58, 20 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Had MRM been notable to merit a separate article, the media would have jumped into discussing MRM exclusively.^{[citation needed]} As for whether it’s better for the reader for the articles to be merged or not, that’s an editorial decision that should be discussed on the talk page of RSS per our usual merge discussion procedure. This AFD nom is based on the argument that the subject fails GNG and NORG. I think the sources disprove that. So it’s a keep. The fact that it could be merged doesn’t make it not-a-keep. Literally every article that meets GNG could be merged. I don’t really like discussing mergers at AFDs, because watchers of the RSS article may not even be aware of this AFD. So you can argue merge until you’re blue in the face, it won’t change my mind that this article topic meets GNG. That opinion of mine is based on the sourcing, not on arguments about merger, because whether an article should be merged has little to do with whether an article meets GNG, as explained in PAGEDECIDE. Levivich (lulz) 17:00, 20 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Delete per above and WP:INHERITORG. Relevant informatin should be added to Rashtriya Swayamsevak Sangh. Tayi Arajakate (talk) 10:14, 18 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Keep this organisation seems to be independently notable, as it has taken part in multiple significant actions that were independently reported on. --Slashme (talk) 10:14, 20 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was no consensus. Sandstein 18:05, 13 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Wawalag

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This article is worse than useless because it is completely uncited and only refers to one possible version of the story, and the link to the supposed father of them (which doesn't exist in all stories) is not covered in that article. I would delete and if someone wants to re-create properly (which would take quite a bit of work). (See this encyclopaedia, for instance.) Laterthanyouthink (talk) 08:30, 21 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete. Unsourced, unable to determine reliability. WWGB (talk) 09:28, 21 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Keep. Article should not be judged purely based on it's current state. [49]. duffbeerforme (talk) 02:40, 22 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

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Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Missvain (talk) 16:25, 28 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Comment - I would support keeping if sources were added. Bearian (talk) 17:08, 31 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Comment - I would also support keeping if sufficient reliable sources can be found. Bookscale (talk) 00:23, 3 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Comment - the problem is, if you look at the history, it's hardly been touched since creation, and if you Google, there is a lot of work needed to attempt to cover all variations and possible interpretations, and reliable sources are scant. Who will do the work, and when? My point is that it's useless and misleading in its current form, which is worse than having no article at all. Laterthanyouthink (talk) 03:43, 3 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

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Comment, from the nominator - "This article is worse than useless ...", and "My point is that it's useless and misleading in its current form", see WP:CONTN, emphasises that notability is of the subject and not of the wikiarticle. Coolabahapple (talk) 10:31, 6 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Delete or perhaps draftify. I believe the subject is notable, however, given article's current state relative to even the limited content readily available it is a WP:TNT. Given the extremely limited work done on it, I suggest WP:TNTTNT does not apply. If any issues in this regard then draftify. Aoziwe (talk) 12:38, 8 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Redirect to Yunggor#Mythology. Merge and relevant sourceable content. Changed my !vote as per further information below. Aoziwe (talk) 11:49, 12 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Keep. The subject is certainly notable and I've now added some references and I think it has the potential to be a great (appropriate) little page. Cabrils (talk) 05:11, 10 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Problem: they're all hardcopy, and available in only one location. There's a real scarcity of info online, and what I did look at before was conflicting. Laterthanyouthink (talk) 05:29, 10 February 2020 (UTC) p.s. I found and added one old but fairly detailed and reliable online source which I found after writing the above, which gives a rough outline of the main elements of the story, adding that space does not allow for the many variants. This may be a good starting point to work from, if the article is to be kept (assuming someone has the time and will to improve it). Laterthanyouthink (talk) 11:47, 10 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Yes that's true but I think it's important to remember that "Even though Wikipedia is an online encyclopedia, there is no distinction between using online versus offline sources": WP:OFFLINE. The difficulty of offline sources is that it makes researching more difficult (a bit like how the world used to operate for the last 1000+ years ;-) !). I like what you've done, good start in the right direction! Cabrils (talk) 22:50, 11 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Keep - I'll keep this in good faith due to the sources added. Due to the subject-matter an online source may not always be available.Merge or redirect to Yunggor#Mythology - JarrahTree has identified a much more appropriate place rather than its own page. I'll leave it up to others to determine whether anything is worth merging or not. Bookscale (talk) 11:17, 10 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Delete - Wikipedia politeness rules prevent my response to most comments here - it is a very valid northern territory creation myth, and if anyone actually checked - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yunggor#Mythology is part of the problem, whether to have a separate article, or some effort to help the Yunggor article. JarrahTree 13:00, 10 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
- Comment - @JarrahTree: - I don't understand your delete vote. I don't know much about this topic and added a keep in good faith but if there's a better place to put this, I'm happy to be convinced - it would be helpful for you as someone much more knowledgeable about the topic to explain a bit more. For example, if the myth is valid but nothing worth merging here, why not a redirect? I also don't understand why any of the responses here may have warranted a rude reply if you were able to do that - they seem to have been made in good faith with limited information. Bookscale (talk) 10:20, 11 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

- reply - there is clear evidence another article exists, with better context and references, this afd seems a time waster - on the basis that as the article with context already exists, there is no need to have a separate article. I have not seen any argumnet from this afd that suggests anyone has the resources to specifically expand the article for it to complement the existing article. JarrahTree 10:52, 11 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Comment I may have muddied the waters somewhat by finding a reliable source and adding a bit of info from this yesterday. I'm happy either way, but if merged it is probably worth copying the extra source (if I haven't done so already) into that article too. And the new (hard copy) citations mentioned above. Thanks for all of your contributions, and for pointing out the Yunggor article, JarrahTree. Laterthanyouthink (talk) 12:10, 11 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Comment I have just caught up and I think I agree with JarrahTree's position and Laterthanyouthink. Thank you both. Cabrils (talk) 22:50, 11 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Keep significant Dreamtime story appearing across multiple nations (hence inappropriate to redirect to Yunggor) and discussed in multiple independent academic and tertiary sources. AfD is not cleanup. --Goldsztajn (talk) 10:31, 13 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Goldsztajn May I ask for some help with your references please. As per above I have currently !voted delete on the basis of TNT ... I would fix the article if possible. I have had a quick look at your references and sorry but I am having trouble finding the relevant material. Can you provide me with some page numbers please within your references. (#1 is 51 pages, #2 is 38 pages, #3 is 602 pages, #4 while only 6 pages seems to be just a museum holding catalogue outline and it is not obvious to me on first look where the reference is, #5 is okay). Regards. Aoziwe (talk) 11:56, 13 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Aoziwe: - I've placed the references with specific page indications on the article's talk page. The piece ("museum catalogue") by Stanton (1995) is important because on page 57 in the lower right corner is a Yirrkalla bark painting depicting the story of the Wawalag Sisters. --Goldsztajn (talk) 15:03, 13 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I've added some more references to the talk page. --Goldsztajn (talk) 17:06, 13 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. Consensus that it doesn't establish notability per NORG Nosebagbear (talk) 22:15, 11 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

All India Minority Congress

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Only one source in the article. The source is self published. The article fails WP:GNG and WP:NORG. S. M. Nazmus Shakib (talk) 16:18, 28 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete a non notable WP:BRANCH of a political party. notability is WP:NOTINHERITED. The sources dont establish individual notability and I cant find either. --DBig Xrayᗙ 06:19, 7 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 19:28, 11 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

List of Alien morphs in the Alien franchise

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Overly in-depth, plot filled, non-notable topic. This is both an unnecessary split of Alien (creature in Alien franchise) and a collection of other minor plot elements that do not need extensive coverage. There are a few scattered production details, but those belong in the main article or the film articles. They don't justify this mess. TTN (talk) 13:21, 4 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete as unnecessary und unbalanced content fork of Alien (creature in Alien franchise). – sgeureka ^t•c 14:57, 4 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Delete - The actual overview of the creatures, which is the only sourced content here, is already fully covered at Alien (creature in Alien franchise). Those sources also appear to be largely primary or from unreliable sources, so I don't really see anything that would need to be merged to the primary article. The actual list portion is a lot of unsourced, overly detailed plot information that does not pass WP:LISTN. Rorshacma (talk) 17:52, 4 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Delete Pure FANDOM material, that fails WP:GNG._{ZXCVBNM (TALK)} 17:58, 5 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Delete. This is FANCRUFT, not encyclopedic material. Lordtobi (✉) 09:00, 6 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Delete. Trivial stuff, not actually about the fictional characters (idea, development, reception, etc.). soetermans. ^{↑↑↓↓←→←→ B A TALK} 12:37, 6 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Delete Trivial cruft with no encyclopedic value. Fails WP:LISTN. Spy-cicle💥 ^Talk? 21:30, 6 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Delete - fails WP:GNG. Videogameplayer99 (talk) 21:28, 7 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 19:29, 11 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

List of regions in Faerûn

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Containment article for non-notable topics. The list fails to establish notability, and there is no justification for keeping this as a spin-out article. TTN (talk) 12:07, 4 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete per WP:GAMEGUIDE Chetsford (talk) 16:15, 4 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Delete WP is not a gameguide or fancruft repository. b uidhe 17:08, 4 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Delete - An overview of the important regions are already covered at Faerûn. The rest is just comprised of overly detailed, in-universe plot information that is either unsourced or using only primary sources. The overall topic fails WP:LISTN, and there is no content that needs to be merged. Rorshacma (talk) 17:55, 4 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. consensus notability wasn't established Nosebagbear (talk) 22:22, 11 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

K. A. Siddique Hassan

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Non notable Indian Islamist. The subject has some coverage on internet but not qualify to keep it. ❁ᴀᴜᴛʜᴏʀ❁ (❁ᴅᴏᴍ❁) 09:08, 4 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete Article was created 10 years ago and still no improvements. Also there is no much coverage of subject on internet. GargAvinash (talk) 12:03, 4 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Delete. Fails WP:GNG.S. M. Nazmus Shakib (talk) 20:21, 4 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Delete per nominator. Tayi Arajakate (talk) 05:03, 7 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Delete Fails WP:GNG. Best, GPL93 (talk) 23:07, 9 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 09:32, 11 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Bob Khanna

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From articles linked, he has won a few trade awards and been mentioned in some advertorial type content on beauty sites. This does not confer notability to me. Article has been mainly edited by users who seem to be connected to the subject Spike 'em (talk) 08:56, 4 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete. Falls short in SIGCOV, as sources mainly consist of tabloid mentions in the context of cosmetic surgery, such as in the Daily Mail. No indication he would fulfill any other criteria. PK650 (talk) 04:15, 6 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Delete. Short of GNG. Dorama285 19:32, 07 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Delete Lacking enough significant coverage from reliable sources to establish GNG. Best, GPL93 (talk) 03:45, 11 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. qedk (t 桜 c) 11:38, 12 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Glen Dettman

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Glen Dettman is a promoter of the alternative medicine megavitamin therapy. The article is written very much like a résumé and appears to serve only to boost the prestige of a supporter of an alternative medicine adjacent to anti-vaccination. With regard to notability, the only references currently cited are an automatic WW2 Nominal Roll, a book written by Glen Dettman, and two obituaries in blogs. I could not find any reliable sources about Glen Dettman. He appears to fail WP:GNG/WP:BASIC and WP:NAUTHOR. userdude 06:47, 4 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete as per nom. Teraplane (talk) 22:33, 4 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Delete, does not meet WP:ANYBIO (received well-known and significant award, made a widely recognised contribution, or entry in DNB or similar) or WP:BASIC (have received significant coverage in multiple sources), the article's references/external links do not show this and have been unable sources that do. Coolabahapple (talk) 11:43, 7 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Delete as WP:NOTRESUME. LibStar (talk) 20:45, 8 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Delete This subject looks as though it should be notable but while there is more than WP:EXISTS I cannot find material sufficient to support WP:NEXIST and hence nor GNG. I would consider changing my !vote if someone can find a couple of "good" sources. Aoziwe (talk) 13:00, 9 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Weak keep. I could not find a single mention of Dettman in a ProQuest database search of all Aust and NZ newspapers. However a Trove search revealed 2 books (1 currently already included in references) and 2 newspaper articles so I have added these as best I could. It feels like a weak weak keep to me now... Cabrils (talk) 04:41, 10 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Yep I found those too. Just felt it was not enough though. Like I wrote above looks as though it should be notable .... The subject does not need much more to get over the bar ... Aoziwe (talk) 10:59, 10 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Yep I'm with you, just inclined to keep... Cabrils (talk) 22:39, 11 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

All three books on Trove are at least coauthored by Dettman, thus cannot be used to establish notability per WP:SPIP. userdude 23:25, 11 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was Draftify. Ritchie333 ^(talk) ^(cont) 23:32, 12 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Spencer Rattler

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not my field, but I do not think this meets the usual criteria for American football DGG ( talk ) 06:46, 4 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

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~~Delete~~ striking per below This appears to be WP:TOOSOON. SportingFlyer T·C 11:40, 4 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Draftify Though there is some coverage for him, I think the best move would be to move to draft for the time being. If he is announced as the starting quarterback, I think it will meet GNG at that point. ~EDDY ^{(talk/contribs)}~ 15:53, 4 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Comment. It's fair to consider this article as falling within WP:TOOSOON, but he will almost certainly be notable later this year, if he is not already. He is expected to be Oklahoma's starting quarterback this year, and the current betting odds rank him No. 3 as a likely candidate to win the 2020 Heisman Trophy. See here and here. Eddy's suggestion to draftify probably makes more sense than outright deletion. Cbl62 (talk) 01:06, 6 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I'm fine with draftify. We don't yet know if he'll be Oklahoma's quarterback, and we can't assume that. We can move it over once he starts for them, assuming he'll generate the coverage to go along with that. SportingFlyer T·C 03:21, 6 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

"We don't yet know if he'll be Oklahoma's starting quarterback ..." We agree, and that's why WP:TOOSOON applies, and draftifying seems like the prudent middle course. That said, if the No. 3 Heisman prospect doesn't end up starting, that would be remarkable (and perhaps Wiki-notable) in itself. Cbl62 (talk) 04:02, 6 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Of course - was just clarifying my vote change. SportingFlyer T·C 05:09, 6 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Draftify per above. Cbl62 (talk) 05:57, 6 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Draftify per all above. Will be notable as soon as Summer/Fall 2020, but right now, it's simply WP:TOOSOON. Ejgreen77 (talk) 03:02, 7 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Draftify per all above. The coverage he has currently received puts him just a bit below passing WP:GNG, but he'll likely pass GNG by mid-fall at the latest given the amount of national coverage starting QBs of schools such as Oklahoma receive. Best, GPL93 (talk) 13:37, 10 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. Ritchie333 ^(talk) ^(cont) 23:31, 12 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

AA20 (2020 film)

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This meets WP:TOOEARLY and a Allu Arjun film released last month The casting section is literally an advertisement (The casting calls for supporting actors who can speak perfect Chittoor slang). DragoMynaa (talk) 06:21, 4 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

The film is under production, it's already completed the first schedule in Kerala. The production house released an official video from Kerala Schedule on the occasion of Sukumar's Birthday.Saichaitanya4496 (talk) 07:00, 4 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete -- WP:TOOEARLY WP:CRYSTALBALL. Not now maybe close to the release of the film. - FitIndia ^{Talk Commons} 09:54, 4 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Keep -- As per WP:CRYSTALBALL, If The Hindu itself is not a verfiable source, then I guess no source in India is verifiable, we have to delete all the pages created based on them. The film itself is notable enough, because of behind the scenes drama and all and even the production is started on the film. What else is needed to keep an article in Wikipedia? Saichaitanya4496 (talk) 11:00, 4 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
delete @Saichaitanya4496: WP:CRYSTALBALL says that we shouldnt have articles based on assumption that something will become notable in the future. I am not sure which Hindu article you are talking about, but this source doesnt say the shooting of the film has begun. I couldnt find any other reliable source stating that the shooting/principal photography has begun. All I could see was "the shooting will begin without Allu Arjun on the set, and he will join it afterwards. If there are sources saying it has begun, then kindly let me know. But until then, the film fails notability guidelines for future films, and shouldnt have an article. However, this is not the only policy. We can also keep the article if the films passes general notable criteria. But it requires sustained coverage of the film in reliable sources. So far, most of the coverage of film is from telly sites/gossip sites. Other than that, we have press releases, routine coverage about the film, and some passing (but not significant) coverage of the film where something else is being covered. But the film itself lacks significant coverage. Also per nom. —usernamekiran (talk) 12:14, 4 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
- @Usernamekiran:, this source says the director is shooting for the film. I guess that's enough as the source is a verifiable one. Any how it's referring the promotional video released by the production house that's why haven't mentioned earlier. Saichaitanya4496 12:45, 4 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  - @Saichaitanya4496: Thanks for the link. I am not sure the shooting shown in the video can be considered as "principal photography". I will wait for input from other editors. Regards, —usernamekiran (talk) 13:00, 4 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. — JJMC89 (T·C) 06:11, 11 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Appsgeyser

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Subject of previous AFD nom, which somehow no one participated in except the nom. Previous nom's rationale from 2016 still applies: "Very little evidence this meets WP:PRODUCT. Created as a sloppy promotional article, tagged as advertisement since 2013 without anyone coming along to fix it in three years. A few minor third-party sources from around its launch in 2011, but checking Google News shows nothing beyond those other than press releases nobody bit on." Loksmythe (talk) 05:59, 4 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

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delete For reasons given above. --Adamant1 (talk) 22:26, 5 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

delete Despite knowing of the site and service; the article reads like a bad advertisement and doesn't go into detail on the company and service. Plenty of other services out there that don't have Wikipedia pages, so I'd say treat this one no differently. --The Count of Tuscany (TALK) 13:22, 9 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was redirect to List of Source mods. Consensus that page notability is not established. Nosebagbear (talk) 22:26, 11 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Mario Kart: Source

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This was already AfDd once, and despite reaching a delete consensus was apparently never deleted. Granted, there's a couple of additional sources now, but they barely go further than saying the project exists. The vast majority of the sources are either primary, self-published, or both. And to top it all off, the mod was never even finished or released. It seems like it pretty plainly fails WP:GNG no matter how you try to look at it. Nathan2055^{talk - contribs} 04:27, 4 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

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Redirect to List of Source mods - not enough sourcing or content to warrant its own spinout. Sergecross73 msg me 13:13, 4 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Redirect Per Sergecross and nom, we can merge a few lines to the list. As for the history of the article, it was deleted following the original AFD, but later restored, user draftified, and then pushed back to mainspace. -- ferret (talk) 15:13, 4 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Weak Redirect WP:NVG is not satisfied. No significant commentary on the subject, and very limited independent sourcing to begin with. It's not a particularly likely search term, but redirects are cheap, given the existence List of Source mods as a good target redirecting edges out deletion. Not seeing any reason to merge, the list already has an entry, and there doesn't seem to be anything notable enough to be added to the existing summary. 74.73.230.72 (talk) 20:31, 11 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. — JJMC89 (T·C) 06:10, 11 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Learning the hard way

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WP:NOT#DICTIONARY. This is a dictionary entry, not an encyclopedia article. I would propose to move it to Wiktionary, but they already have an entry. Kaldari (talk) 03:18, 4 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete - Or redirect to English-language idioms. Michepman (talk)
Delete - Per nom, Wiktionary has an entry and that is the appropriate wiki project for definitions of words, idioms and phrases. Per WP:NOTDIC, Wikipedia is not a dictionary. This does not meet WP:WORDISSUBJECT. -- Sirfurboy (talk) 08:20, 4 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Delete - As stated above, this is a common saying that's ideally described on a page somewhere else. CoffeeWithMarkets (talk) 19:45, 4 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. — JJMC89 (T·C) 06:10, 11 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Pegah Pourmand

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Substantial claims of notability, but only cited to IMDB or not at all. Turkey Film Festival is a redlink, so no evidence even the claimed award for a film in which she had a role is of uncertain notability for the film, let alone that it propagates as notability for her. DMacks (talk) 02:45, 4 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete: I can't find any other film or TV credits besides the one mentioned in the article, and that film doesn't seems all that notable anyway. The article claims that she has worked in theatre, but there is no source to confirm that, nor could I find any; but if others can, I will certainly take that on board. She seems to be more of a social media influencer than an actress, with 112,000 followers on Instagram. I don't think she meets the standards for an actress, but maybe others have different views regarding her notability as an influencer. Dflaw4 (talk) 07:45, 4 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Delete After a cleanup there's no actual references left. A search shows nothing, and definitely nothing RS. Jerod Lycett (talk) 05:56, 5 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Delete no reliable sources.John Pack Lambert (talk) 00:46, 10 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was no consensus. Reasonable editors appear to differ on exactly whether this article passes the WP:NACTOR criterion or other more general ones. No strong consensus either way really develops; and given the general agreement that the overall notability of this actor potentially hinges significantly on an upcoming production, it seems like this disagreement can potentially be settled by a renomination in a few months time if this does not bring significant reliable-source coverage. ~ mazca ^talk 15:14, 12 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Antonio Raul Corbo

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Non notable child actor falls short of WP:NACTOR besides being known for his role as Boyle's son on the comedy series Brooklyn Nine-Nine and his upcoming role as Pauley Perrette's character's son on the upcoming show Broke. This article overall falls short of WP:GNG. Pahiy (talk) 02:32, 4 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

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Weak Keep: Taking into account his upcoming role in Broke (2020 TV series), I think he might just scrape through with WP:NACTOR. In terms of WP:GNG, he is mentioned in a lot of articles, including Deadline Hollywood, and there are a couple of articles dedicated just to him, although they seem to be local news (in San Antonio). So while it may be WP:TOOSOON, and while NACTOR and GNG may be borderline, I'd be willing to let this article stand and give it a chance.Dflaw4 (talk) 10:51, 4 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Delete per nom, fails WP:GNG and it is a type of WP:TOOSOON. He has done only few roles so far and his career will rise in near future. Abishe (talk) 01:53, 6 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Keep: I don't understand the TOOSOON argument; he's got a main cast role in a CBS sitcom that premieres two months from now. Abishe says that "his career will rise in near future", so what's the point of deleting the page in February and re-creating it again in April? -- Toughpigs (talk) 21:04, 8 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Weak Keep I'm a proponent that Wikipedia should remain as consistent as we can reasonably be. This means that if we're close enough that an article on the TV series is allowed, then it's logical to count it for an actor's notability determination. So that's half way there, then its his other performances and the determination of "substantial". Given that there is coverage on him in different roles, I'm going to fall the way of Keep on it. Nosebagbear (talk) 22:30, 11 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. — JJMC89 (T·C) 06:09, 11 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

2020 Ghent stabbing

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This incident was not terror-related and no-one was killed. It was a mental health issue. Its occurrence on the same day as a London terror attack is coincidental and irrelevant. Clear case of WP:NOTNEWS. WWGB (talk) 02:10, 4 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete run of the mill - we're WP:NOTNEWS. Widefox; talk 11:16, 4 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Delete per WP:MILL. Nice city, Ghent, but not immune to the social problems common to Western cities. ——SN 54129 11:21, 4 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Delete, I wish editors would keep in mind WP:NORUSH for these things. Within an hour of the article being created false information was presented that included a "terrorist incident" and a comment "reported by eye witnesses to be of "a dark skin colour". [50] This is concerning and should be concerning to editors out there who want to maintain Wikipedia's quality standards. The article was rushed to be made with the assumption that this was going to be some huge terrorist incident which it was clearly not. - Knowledgekid87 (talk) 14:44, 4 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Delete Grrrr!! I agree with you here Knowledgekid87! I am very concerned by this article! Whoever copy and pasted over the Streatham stabbing's current events template and forgot to remove the part stating "recent terrorist incident" is a bigoted racist and also a neo-nazi and also that perfectly valid comment "reported by eye witnesses to be of "a dark skin colour" [51] is a clear sign that this editor is a white supremacist and was definitely not just quoting news pages that were clearly pointing to islamic terrorism in their articles on the description of the attacker before they were identified!! Grrrrr! I really am angry I am! I am also very concerned by this! This article goes against WP:CONCERNING! And also WP:NONEONAZIS as well as WP:NORACISM! ANGRYYY!! Bye guys I am now going to go and edit 1000s of grammar mistakes using my bot for probably 17 hours straight to get myself up to the next service ribbon because I need more clout on my user page since it represents who I am because I can't go outside or else people would make fun of me!! Also I am still concerned by this racist editor!!!! Grrr! TheBestEditorInEngland (talk) 19:29, 4 February 2020 (UTC)^[FBDB][reply]
- Are you suggesting that it is somehow racist for somebody to think that the first hint of melanin makes a stabbing "encyclopedic"? --Andreas Philopater (talk) 18:33, 5 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  - Yes, I am, Andreas Philopater. This user is trying to spread racist white-supremacist messages across Wikipedia and I WON'T PUT UP WITH IT. I am very concerned that the quote "reported by eye witnesses to be of "a dark skin colour"" [52] was included in the article and I believe that this has no right to be in the article, nor be the entire subject of it which it clearly is. This quote, also used by the racist Belgian media who are all nazis, was also the reason this racist editor believed this stabbing was worthy of an article when it first appeared in the news and not because it was a quadruple stabbing that happened just hours after the Streatham stabbing meaning it could have possibly been orchestrated by the same group, like the nazi propaganda media suggested, and it is clear that this quote wasn't added because racist neo-nazi news articles were suggesting that this was also another islamic extremest attack by adding the quote in the first place to their own articles (I mean god! The only reason they included it was because everybody cares a lot about what skin colour the attacker was!), and so this editor is an absolute bigot who should be jailed because they believed what was in the news article they read – that this attack could have possibly been another islamic extremest attack like the one that had happened hours before, and so without knowing this 100%, added the quote from the article to subtly usher this possibility before anything had been confirmed, before getting outright bored with the topic and leaving it to be deleted. Grrrr!! I am FUMING!!! And YOU yes YOU should be too! Kind regards and yours faithfully + sincerely, TheBestEditorInEngland (talk) 19:34, 5 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    - It's especially strange that it's included in the article but apparently not in the source cited. The only source for it I can find is Russia Today, which is oddly not cited in the article. Perhaps you are right to be concerned about the article's quality. --Andreas Philopater (talk) 21:45, 5 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
      - Even more strange is the fact that the article creator, TheBestEditorInEngland, made the edits introducing the then-reported (HLN subsequently changed its article content) suspect's skin colour [53] as well as the unsourced terror allegations [54] [55]. Meanwhile, any link with terrorism is again said to be excluded [56] and the suspect is sent to a forensic psychiatrist [57]. Wakari07 (talk) 00:33, 6 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Delete I cannot find anything other than routine news coverage of the incident, so it fails WP:NOTNEWS. No lasting impact.-- P-K3 (talk) 18:07, 5 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Delete per above, it's an unremarkable event. BTW why is this AFD listed under "Disability related"? I came here from WikiProject Disability's alerts, but I find nothing relevant in the article. Roger (Dodger67) (talk) 10:12, 7 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Dodger67: I'm guessing its the reference to "voices in her head", but I agree that's a pretty 1950s usage of "disability" ——SN 54129 11:49, 7 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Keep According to a Breitbart article on the day of the attack which also (correctly) noticed that the woman is "dark-skinned", this "story is developing..." but the far-right publication stopped developing it when it didn't suit their taste anymore. Her lawyer now says, according to an update article, that the 26-year-old S.C. is from Haitian origin. An adopted child, she started to develop a dislike for her Belgian adoptive family, tried to commit suicide and landed in an institution. Planning to ask money for a project she wanted to start, she rang the doorbell of her former home in the Oranjeboomstraat, where her brother openend, smiling. From that point on, she is said to have lost all memory. She stabbed him with a knife. Then, she rang at other doors in the Korte Rijakkerstraat. When the neighbour of a friend opened the door, she was stabbed as well. Driving away, she noticed a police car and, irrationally thinking that her life was over, she decided that she wanted to die from a police bullet. She then stabbed passers-by in the Bevrijdingslaan, where the story was picked up by world media: i24News, The National, AFP via New Straits Times, DPA via the Weekend Australian, Times of Malta, Metro UK, ... Her arrest was confirmed by the council chamber on Friday. Is there a policy that says such an incident needs to be labeled as terrorism in order to acquire WP:Notability? Wakari07 (talk) 14:39, 8 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
- Wakari07 If various newspapers each separately wrote their own articles about the topic, that would contribute to notability, but when it's the same story (usually by a news agency such as AFP in this case) simply being repeated by multiple publications, they all count as just one source. Roger (Dodger67) (talk) 15:26, 8 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Roger, I noted the agencies. There's the full Agence France-Presse article via New Straits Times, the full Deutsche Presse-Agentur article via the Weekend Australian (which cites Belga) and four other articles: i24 News cites no agencies, The National cites HLN and AFP, Metro cites HLN, and Times of Malta cites local media, AFP and HLN. Associated Press also cited the event in their article on the London stabbing as a side note: AP via Stars and Stripes, AP News. All Belgian media have their own reporting too, but that's generally behind a paywall for me and the public info has little which is not given in the publicly available articles of Het Laatste Nieuws. Wakari07 (talk) 15:54, 8 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Wakari07 Perhaps WP:WikiProject Belgium might be able to help you with accessing paywalled sources. Roger (Dodger67) (talk) 16:07, 8 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was keep. Pax:Vobiscum (talk) 15:08, 12 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Tommy Pickles

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This article is WP:FANCRUFT, it may have survived a deletion attempt back in 2009, and I think a second attempt at deletion will be the charm. Pahiy (talk) 01:58, 4 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

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Keep per WP:NEXIST and WP:ARTN. I think it's pretty obvious that the main character of a hugely successful two-decade franchise that spans two TV series and several movies is notable. Here's some sources:

Gaines, Caseen; Klickstein, Mathew (June 16, 2016). "The Oral History Of 'Nicktoons', Part III: Exploring The Multigenerational Appeal Of 'Rugrats'". Decider. Archived from the original on March 8, 2017. Retrieved June 25, 2016.
Nolasco, Stephanie (Jan 26, 2019). "EG Daily recalls going into labor during 'Rugrats,' returns to musical roots with empowering 'So Pretty' video". Retrieved 5 February 2020.
Brownfield, Paul (August 16, 1998). "Talk About A Baby Boom". The Los Angeles Times. Retrieved November 10, 2010.
Heffley, Lynne (July 21, 1996). "View From the Rug Up : 'RUGRATS,' NICKELODEON'S ANIMATED HIT, LOOKS AT WORLD THROUGH EYES OF A TODDLER". The Los Angeles Times. Retrieved November 10, 2010.
Rugrats Creator Talks Chuckie's Mom, Passover Episode - Entertainment Weekly, Aug 10, 2016 -- discusses creators' choices around Tommy being Jewish
Berton, Brad (1999-02-02). "Hollywood About to See a Lot More of 'The Rugrats'". The Los Angeles Times. Retrieved 2010-11-10.
Eller, Claudia (2000-11-17). "Rugrats Duo Draws on Shared Vision". The Los Angeles Times. Retrieved 2010-08-24.
Barnett, Laura (2015-06-09). "Creator Arlene Klasky and actor Elizabeth Daily: how we made Rugrats". The Guardian. ISSN 0261-3077. Retrieved 2019-06-11.
"TV's most grown-up babies really grow up in anniversary show", Chippewa Herald-Telegram, July 19, 2001.
"Adults take on kiddie roles", The Windsor Star, Nov 24, 2000.
"Rugrats: Bigger Crawl Space", New York Daily News, Nov 18, 1998.

There's lots more, if you want them. -- Toughpigs (talk) 04:30, 4 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Merge to List of Rugrats characters. Take out all the plot summary, and you're left with a simple development fact (whom the character was named after) and a couple one sentence bits of reception. There is no significant coverage. The source dump on the article there and above is not providing any real in-depth source on the character- they mention the character in context of the show but not enough for notability. It is wrong to think "hugely popular show, thus should be a notable character" since notability is not inherited. --Masem (t) 05:57, 4 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Merge to List of Rugrats characters per Masem. Also, the LoC is tagged for so many problems, it's better to cleanup and develop the characters from there, instead of allowing crufty spinoff articles that make the problem even worse. – sgeureka ^t•c 08:25, 4 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Keep. It seems every day lately there are a multitude of articles about fictional content being PRODed or nominated for deletion, and I assume a good faith effort is made to search for significant coverage in reliable sources to establish whether a subject passed WP:GNG before such deletions are proposed. In this case, I believe this subject clearly passes this standard, with coverage going far beyond even the sources Toughpigs has idenrified above. Any comments about the quality of the article is a good argument for improving it, not deleting it. — Hunter Kahn 12:03, 4 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Merge Per Masem and others. Dumping sources does not prove WP:SIGCOV meriting its own article._{ZXCVBNM (TALK)} 12:06, 4 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Redirect - The character list should be built up before any consideration for individual articles is made. It's most probable that the character article can hold everything real world about the characters while providing enough fictional context that an article is not needed. TTN (talk) 12:09, 4 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Comment I've expanded the article very slightly just to demonstrate that there is more to this character/article than mere plot summary. Please note this is only based on a very few of the sources that cover this character (I didn't even include all the sources Toughpig shared, let alone the multitude of others out there) but I think it already has enough that it warrants a standalone article rather than an disproportionately long list entry. I may try to expand it further in the future, if time permits... — Hunter Kahn 13:33, 4 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
- If we use Characters of Carnivàle as the standard of what character articles should aspire to become, then it seem unlikely that the character needs a separate article. That's especially true considering that not many characters will even have a depth of real world info. TTN (talk) 13:46, 4 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  - Huh, interesting article, I'd actually never seen that one. Though, FA or not, it looks like Ben Hawkins and Brother Justin Crowe can and probably should be made into their own standalone articles, with their specific entries on the list reduced and a template added linking to their main articles. Maybe I'll look into that in the future, but regardless, what another article looks like or doesn't look like doesn't pertain to this discussion, per WP:OTHER. I still think there is signicant enough coverage of Tommy Pickles to pass WP:GNG, and enough content out there that has yet to be added to this article that goes beyond plot summary, and that it should be kept. — Hunter Kahn 14:09, 4 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    - @Hunter Kahn: Spinning out these characters would unfeature Wikipedia:Featured topics/Carnivàle, in which case I'll make sure myself that the spin-out editor either takes them through the WP:GA process or de-spinouts them to re-feature the topic. Featured topics is what all of en.wiki's coverage should strive towards, and should not be destroyed to justify poor articles like Tommy here. – sgeureka ^t•c 14:53, 4 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
      - @Sgeureka: Please don't misunderstand, I'm not going to go over and start hacking up that article, especially not just to make a WP:POINT. And even if I did want to change it, I'd certainly discuss it with the primary author of the FA and start a talk page discussion to establish a WP:CONSENSUS before attempting to make major changes to an FA. In any case, I have no intention of doing any of that right now. :) — Hunter Kahn 14:58, 4 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
        How this article compares to a Featured Article is not super relevant to the question of notability. I believe what we're addressing is WP:GNG, which is a much lower standard. -- Toughpigs (talk) 03:53, 5 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Comment I've just done a fairly significant overhaul of this article (for comparison purposes, here's the article before the AFD, and here's the version after my edits). I've tried to add sourcing for everything that was in the article, while also restructuring it, rewriting it so it's no longer from an in-universe perspective, and scaling back some of the fancruft and excessive plot summary. (Please note there are still some sections that are unsourced, particularly related to All Grown Up!, so additional work can still be done in the future. I got tired and had to go to bed. lol) I'd like to point out that since I was focused primarily on adding reliable sources to information already in the article, not all of these sources speak about Tommy in significant lengths of time; some are more about Rugrats itself but are used to cite specific facts about Tommy. However, many of these articles do provide significant coverage to the character, and I think this expansion goes a long way toward demonstrating that Tommy Pickles clearly meets WP:GNG and the standalone article is warranted and shouldn't be deleted. I'll also hasten to add that the sources I've added are NOT the only sources about Tommy Pickles out there, and others could still be added to improve this article even further down the road... — Hunter Kahn 06:04, 5 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
- Masem, sgeureka, Zxcvbnm and TTN, since you previously voted Merge/Redirect based on the article pre-expansion, or cited the poor quality of the article, I wanted to ping you to see if your opinion has changed given the state of the article now? — Hunter Kahn 06:06, 5 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  - Over half the reception section is about the full cast, so that shows a clear lack of individual attention. I’m not sure if a free-floating, ever shifting ranking could ever be used as a reliable source. Other than those, the blurb about the film is a trivial momentary comparison that has no reason being in the article. That’s the most important section, but it’s not in good enough shape to show the character has potential. The rest of the information in the article can easily be split between a character list and the main series article when relevant to overall development. TTN (talk) 11:14, 5 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    - Thanks TTN. I know in the past I've said you never seem to change your opinion in deletion debates once you've made up your mind, so I genuinely appreciate you taking a second look. I do feel like you're giving a little undue weight to the Reception section alone, which is one I didn't even really bother expanding much because I figured it would be the easiest for someone else to do in the future. Anyone can dump a bunch of reviews into a Reception section, whereas other non-plot sections like Conception and Portrayal are often harder to do if a character is not notable, so sections like that always struck me as more important than Reception. But in any event, thanks for looking it over, and I would urge you to consider that many of the other sources outside of Reception provide much more significant coverage to the character. — Hunter Kahn 12:38, 5 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  - I think what ultimately really matters here is the reception section, since without WP:SIGCOV the article does not need to be standalone. The first sentence is a listicle, so I wouldn't hold that up as a good source since they can really just look desperately for anything to fill their writing quota. The second is a brief, one sentence mention that does not actually concern the character himself. And so on and so forth. None of them discuss the traits of the character in detail or give critical opinions, only stating basic facts about the character. My opinion definitely stands as merge/redirect._{ZXCVBNM (TALK)} 17:43, 5 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    - I will try to expand the Reception section in the next few days, since it seems I massively underestimated the importance of it and hadn't really put any work into it. But, even if we were to stipulate that the Reception section is currently lacking, and the Character History section should be ignored altogether when considering notability (which isn't something I agree with in any case), do the other non-Reception sections that discuss this character like Conception and Portrayal not indicate WP:SIGCOV in combination with the article's other elements? I know it's subjective, but just seems sort of surprising to me that you guys still don't think this article subject has received significant coverage in reliable sources. UPDATE: I've expanded the Reception section a bit in response to the commentary here, though I suspect further sources can be found for additional expansions down the road... — Hunter Kahn 19:37, 5 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
      - According to WP:NEXIST and WP:ARTN as I understand them, notability is not dependent on the current state of the article, or frantic changes made with a ticking time-bomb deadline. WP:NEXIST says:
        Notability requires only the existence of suitable independent, reliable sources, not their immediate presence or citation in an article. Editors evaluating notability should consider not only any sources currently named in an article, but also the possibility or existence of notability-indicating sources that are not currently named in the article.

If there are enough sources in existence that show that Tommy Pickles is a notable subject, then the article should be improved, rather than deleted. Similarly, WP:ARTN says:

Notability is a property of a subject and not of a Wikipedia article... If the source material exists, even very poor writing and referencing within a Wikipedia article will not decrease the subject's notability.

So, Hunter Kahn: I don't believe that you need to knock yourself out trying to rewrite the article to other people's individual specifications right now. There is no deadline. AfD is not an article improvement drive, and if people posting on this page are concerned about the quality of writing on this article, then they should channel that concern into making helpful improvements to the article. For this discussion, the relevant question is: do reliable sources exist that talk about this character directly and in detail? -- Toughpigs (talk) 01:20, 6 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

KEEP As I mentioned in the last AFD for this, a major newspaper said at the time: "Tommy Pickles is a bigger star than George Clooney". I look at the reception section and wonder why this is even at AFD again? Reliable sources give significant coverage of him, just look at Tommy_Pickles#Reception and read through that! Dream Focus 19:14, 7 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Keep The nomination just cites an essay and so there's no case to answer. As the previous AfD was a "keep" and the nomination clearly states that this repeat nomination is being made simply in the hope of getting a different result, the nominator should be warned not to repeat this disruption per WP:DELAFD which states "It can be disruptive to repeatedly nominate a page in the hope of getting a different outcome." Andrew🐉(talk) 20:42, 8 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Keep enough reliable sources are mentioned now. The article has changed a lot since its nomination. Now the Conception, Portrayal and Reception are mentioned. There are enough reliable sources and there is enough information that is not just plot. The article should be kept. --Dynara23 (talk) 06:23, 9 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Keep: I think the article now shows that there is enough coverage in reliable, third-party sources to meet the WP:GNG criteria. Aoba47 (talk) 03:30, 10 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Redirect, MAYBE selectively merge The coatrack-y line The Detroit News writer [sic] positively reviewed all the Rugrats baby characters but gave particular praise to Tommy writing: "Ya gotta love 'em, especially leader Tommy Pickles"., sourced to a film review of Rugrats Go Wild, basically sums up everything wrong with this article. The reliably sourced information that relates to this specific topic appears to be almost exclusively in-universe plot content. One could make an OSE argument that Wikipedia has lots of fictional kids' show character articles that are even worse than this one but haven't been deleted/redirected yet, but that would be a weak argument even if any of the above keep !voters were making it.

Looking at the history I see that a lot of the problematic content has apparently been added by said keep !voters since this AFD was opened; their poor conduct and Wikipedia editing standards are not in themselves a reason to disregard their !votes, but they should be weighted accordingly (I don't know what was added by whom, nor do I care to find out, so I won't name names). Moreover, the last two keep !votes by Dynara23 and Aoba47 explicitly cite the addition of this problematic content as reasons to keep this article, so I would encourage any closure to take this fact into account when weighing their comments.

Hijiri 88 (聖やや) 06:32, 12 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

The above is an extremely misleading and inaccurate (not to mention at least mildly insulting statement.) This is the version of the page before the AFD began compared to this, the version at the time that you voted. As anyone could see, the vast majority of additions are not exclusively in-universe plot content. On the contrary, that's what the majority of the previous version of the article was; much of it has been scaled back, and sources have been added to most of what remains. Rather than plot, the majority of the new additions are rather detailed sections about such aspects of the character as its conception, portrayal, and reception, all of which are cited by reliable sources. (Your claim that you "don't care" to find what was added by whom indicates perhaps you haven't reviewed this article's edit history very thoroughly, so perhaps you misunderstood the nature of the additions?) And incidentally, your statement that one "could" make an OSE claim is a straw man argument, because nobody has made that argument. The argument is that this article is cited by reliable sources that indicate significant coverage of the topic, which indicates that it passes WP:GNG. — Hunter Kahn 13:23, 12 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete. Sandstein 17:51, 11 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Gana Stephen

(Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)

Subject of article per article itself & a before conducted does not show evidence subject satisfies WP:NMUSIC or WP:GNG. Celestina007 (talk) 23:43, 27 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of People-related deletion discussions. Celestina007 (talk) 23:43, 27 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Bands and musicians-related deletion discussions. Celestina007 (talk) 23:43, 27 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Asia-related deletion discussions. Celestina007 (talk) 23:43, 27 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of India-related deletion discussions. Celestina007 (talk) 23:43, 27 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Delete. There seems to be no SIGCOV to establish notability, and he fails the MUSIC criteria. PK650 (talk) 21:44, 29 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Comment Not sure I see that the subject is notable, but 66 million youtube views... Wm335td (talk) 22:03, 3 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Bobherry Talk Edits 01:44, 4 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

YouTube views are not a notability criterion on Wikipedia, so that argument is invalid. See this discussion for an in-depth discussion. PK650 (talk) 21:53, 6 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

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The result was delete. — JJMC89 (T·C) 06:09, 11 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Paul Livingstone (cinematographer)

(Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)

Unsourced film editor. Fails:WP Notability. DragoMynaa (talk) 01:04, 4 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of People-related deletion discussions. DragoMynaa (talk) 01:04, 4 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

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Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Film-related deletion discussions. DragoMynaa (talk) 01:04, 4 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete no reliable sources.John Pack Lambert (talk) 20:07, 4 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

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^ Karinna Fernández. Complicidad económica con la dictadura chilena: Un país desigual a la fuerza. LOM Ediciones. pp. 176–. ISBN 978-956-00-1209-8.

[1] ttps://www.rte.ie/rnag/search/?q=conor+mcguinness

[2] ttps://council.ie/serious-concern-in-waterford-over-e3-million-hole-in-council-finances/

[3] ttps://tuairisc.ie/23-de-chomhairleoiri-sa-ghaeltacht-ata-ina-gcainteoiri-gaeilge/

[4] ttps://tuairisc.ie/suil-an-tseabhaic-ar-an-suiochan-sa-bhreis-sna-deise/

[5] ttps://tuairisc.ie/saoranaigh-den-dara-grad-a-ndeanamh-de-mhuintir-na-gaeltachta-ag-an-ngarda-siochana-i-bport-lairge/

[6] ttps://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/waterford-cllrs-agree-to-self-regulate-their-social-media-accounts-976793.html

[7] ttps://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/what-trends-to-look-out-for-in-the-local-elections-1.3903353

[8] ttps://www.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/fionnan-sheahan-nine-to-watch-in-the-2019-elections-38146243.html

[9] ttps://www.rte.ie/news/post/103122650/

[10] ttp://www.munster-express.ie/front-page-news/council-boss-set-to-look-for-rates-increase-to-plug-gap-politicians-told-to-resist-%E2%80%98running-up-the-white-flag%E2%80%99-in-stand-off-with-government/

[11] ttp://www.munster-express.ie/front-page-news/labour-take-mayoralty-as-part-of-%E2%80%98progressive-alliance%E2%80%99/

[12] ttp://www.munster-express.ie/front-page-news/councillors-vote-to-maintain-local-property-tax-rate/

[13] ttp://www.munster-express.ie/front-page-news/council-facing-%E2%80%98financial-tsunami%E2%80%99/

[14] ttp://www.munster-express.ie/front-page-news/uhw-psychiatric-nurses-say-progress-is-being-made-but-warn-that-it%E2%80%99s-%E2%80%98early-days%E2%80%99/

[15] ttp://www.munster-express.ie/front-page-news/council-boss-set-to-look-for-rates-increase-to-plug-gap-politicians-told-to-resist-%E2%80%98running-up-the-white-flag%E2%80%99-in-stand-off-with-government/

[16] ttp://www.munster-express.ie/front-page-news/budget-decision-due-this-week/

[17] ttp://www.corklive.ie/news/what-s-on/369058/free-waterford-event-to-celebrate-irish-language-on-st-patricks-weekend.html

[18] ttps://www.sinnfein.ie/contents/55554

[19] ttps://www.sinnfein.ie/contents/53985

[20] ttps://www.voicemedia.ie/waterford-today/merger-means-longer-waiting-lists-for-children/

[21] ttps://www.voicemedia.ie/waterford-today/we-take-a-giant-step-in-war-on-climate/

[22] ttps://www.waterfordlive.ie/search?q=conor+mcguinness&idcanale=16&idcanalericerca=16

[23] ttps://www.wlrfm.com/2019/11/07/councillor-conor-mcguinness-says-not-enough-in-being-done-to-tackle-serious-drug-dealing-in-the-west-waterford-area/

[24] ttps://www.wlrfm.com/2019/09/30/councillor-claims-pubs-in-youghal-are-using-bottle-banks-in-county-waterford-to-dispose-of-their-empty-bottles-and-waste-glass/?fbclid=IwAR0pgJN3Y6UXPAa0LUmc7Yw8dSTvtM0uXnEbBq-7jE8f5aPHBHa-X6o4bbU

[25] ttps://www.wlrfm.com/2019/08/21/council-working-to-secure-homeless-accommodation-outside-of-waterford-city/

[26] ttps://www.wlrfm.com/2019/11/28/waterford-council-budget-sinn-fein/

[27] ttps://www.wlrfm.com/2019/11/01/an-emergency-meeting-of-waterford-council-has-been-called-to-discuss-a-potential-deficit-of-three-point-three-million-euro-in-the-local-authorities-finances/

[28] ttps://www.wlrfm.com/2019/12/05/waterford-council-will-not-be-receiving-any-additional-funding-to-help-pass-its-budget/

[29] ttps://www.wlrfm.com/2019/09/25/100475/

[30] ttps://waterfordnow.ie/news/no-political-will-to-do-right-by-waterford-councillor-hits-out-as-budget-crisis-deepen/

[31] ttps://waterfordnow.ie/news/19131/

[32] ttps://waterfordnow.ie/news/mindless-vandals-stealing-life-saving-emergency-equipment-at-waterford-coast/

[33] ttps://waterfordnow.ie/business/climate-change-government-failing-to-support-householders-efforts-to-save-energy-waterford-councillor/

[34] ttps://waterford-news.ie/2019/07/10/forced-to-fight-for-your-child/

[35] ttps://waterford-news.ie/2020/01/07/a-council-year-in-review/

[36] ttps://waterford-news.ie/2019/12/18/marathon-budget-limps-over-the-line/

[37] ttps://waterford-news.ie/2019/11/29/the-bother-of-a-budget/

[38] ttps://waterford-news.ie/2019/11/20/government-set-to-ease-councils-budget-crisis/

[39] ttps://waterford-news.ie/2019/10/17/new-bye-laws-crack-down-on-buskers-and-preachers/

[40] ttps://waterford-news.ie/2019/09/11/waterford-politicians-pen-letter-of-concern-over-garda-changes/

[41] ttps://waterford-news.ie/2019/07/18/mount-rushmore-proposal-between-rock-and-a-hard-place/

[42] ttps://waterford-news.ie/2019/05/28/waterford-local-elections-analysis-the-good-the-bad-and-the-ugly/

[Fernández-43] Karinna Fernández. Complicidad económica con la dictadura chilena: Un país desigual a la fuerza. LOM Ediciones. pp. 176–. ISBN 978-956-00-1209-8.

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