Talk:Robert F. Kennedy Jr./Archive 8

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Beginning of paragraph 2 of "Vaccines and autism claims" misuses source

The wiki page says "Kennedy and Children's Health Defense have falsely claimed that vaccines cause autism."

But the source cited doesn't say this, it says "Mr. Kennedy is chairman of the board of Children’s Health Defense. Its website ties the increase in chronic childhood conditions such as asthma, autism and diabetes to a range of factors, including environmental toxins, pesticides and vaccines."

This is an incorrect use of the source, really the website mentioned in the article is what should be cited but from the nyt article it's unclear if autism is being said to be linked to vaccines. Unless there's an actual source for this it should be be promptly removed LachlanTheUmUlGiTurtle (talk) 15:42, 15 November 2024 (UTC)

• There are literally hundreds of reliable sources out there linking Kennedy/CHD to claims that vaccines cause autism. Here's the first one I found from Time magazine [1]. Black Kite (talk) 15:48, 15 November 2024 (UTC)

  This is probably the best source for it since it has a direct quote

  Web archive of Washington examiner LachlanTheUmUlGiTurtle (talk) 16:03, 15 November 2024 (UTC)

Also it's never sourced anywhere that Kennedy made the claim himself, only that children's health made the claim. Another reason to remove it. LachlanTheUmUlGiTurtle (talk) 15:48, 15 November 2024 (UTC)

Citation citation added from FactCheck.org: What RFK Jr. Gets Wrong About Autism. -- M.boli (talk) 19:32, 15 November 2024 (UTC)

Disinformation in Russian invasion of Ukraine template discussion

@M.boli You mentioned RFK Jr. has echoed propaganda memes in relation to Russia. This may be true, but the section on his stances of foreign affairs does not mention this anywhere, which is why I removed the template. It is mentioned he opposes intervention in the Russo-Ukrainian war, which is a stance more favorable to Russia, but there is no mention of this stance being active disinformation nor an implicit or explicit support of Russia. Let me know your take on this, thanks. Slothwizard (talk) 21:01, 15 November 2024 (UTC)

After thinking about it further, I'm on the fence a bit about including the see-also.

RFK Jr'.s claim about slaughter of Russians in Donbas comes directly from Russian disinfo. There is currently a wikilink within that paragraph to the Russian disinformation article. I saw this link (which admittedly is an easter egg) before re-inserting the see-also to Russian disinfo operations. But I should have checked further.

Other claims of his, e.g. the 2014 Revolution of Dignity was actually a U.S. coup against Ukraine, are also well-known Russian propaganda. But as you note there is no sourcing for that. Absent any sources in the article showing Jr. is repeating Russian propaganda the see-also link is probably OR and should go. I completely agree with you on that.

A short amount of google-searching does reveal a few sources. Here is one example, a WaPo fact check. These analyses linking RFK Jr. to Russian propaganda would need to be edited into the paragraph before the see-also is supported. And it might be complicated or the sources aren't good enough. So I'm a bit on the fence. Unless and until such sources are added, I'm OK with admitting a mistake and removal of the the see-also. -- M.boli (talk) 22:29, 15 November 2024 (UTC)

Okay, thanks! As it is currently worded, I will remove the see also. Let me know if anything Slothwizard (talk) 23:34, 15 November 2024 (UTC)

References

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 16 November 2024

Please edit source number 240 to point to Robert F. Kennedy Jr: CIA, Power, Corruption, War, Freedom, and Meaning | Lex Fridman Podcast #388 at timestamp 1:55:55 Aboutzero (talk) 18:42, 16 November 2024 (UTC)

 Not done: WaPo is a WP:SECONDARYSOURCE. A podcast is a WP:PRIMARYSOURCE. We prefer secondary sources. – Muboshgu (talk) 19:03, 16 November 2024 (UTC)

Change lead sentence description from "politician" to "former political candidate"

Why is Kennedy described as a politician in the lead? He's never held political office and has run for office for a total of 4 months out of his entire career. If the politics should be mentioned in the lead sentence, it should be "former political candidate". --Greens vs. Blacks (talk) 21:15, 19 November 2024 (UTC)

 Not done: Per our article at politician, A politician is a person who participates in policy-making processes, usually holding a position in government. He fits that definition, especially if he's confirmed at HHS. – Muboshgu (talk) 21:02, 20 November 2024 (UTC)

@Muboshgu. He doesn't though. That's more crystal-ball territory, given he hasn't even been confirmed, much less involved in any gov. position or policy-making. --Greens vs. Blacks (talk) 21:07, 20 November 2024 (UTC)

He definitely does. He's headed an anti-vaccine advocacy group for decades. – Muboshgu (talk) 21:12, 20 November 2024 (UTC)

But that's not a political office? Are you considering any sort of advocacy group a political post? --Greens vs. Blacks (talk) 22:27, 20 November 2024 (UTC)

You are 100% correct and RFK Jr. should not be described as "politician" on this article. I do not know why Muboshgu thinks that heading an advocacy group makes one a politician. Del Bigtree is not described as a politician, despite likewise heading an anti-vaccine advocacy group for almost a decade.

Muboshgu's first argument was unfortunately WP:CRYSTALBALL territory, and second one was based on RFK Jr. leading an anti-vaccine advocacy group, which does not hold water because it is not applied to any other chairmen of advocacy groups. This would narrow down Muboshgu's case that heading an advocacy group for at least a decade makes one a politician - well, not a workable definition. Brat Forelli🦊 01:05, 21 November 2024 (UTC)

Thank you for your thoughts. You said it better than I did! The example I was thinking of was Ingrid Newkirk of PETA. She's advocated for initiatives/laws/etc. for decades, yet is not considered a politician since she's a nonprofit activist. I don't see any difference between Newkirk and Kennedy in that regard. --Greens vs. Blacks (talk) 15:28, 21 November 2024 (UTC)

Bias

The conspiracy theory section has a blatant, uncited “chemtrails do not exist”, i am not here to argue one side or the other, but maybe it should be removed unless its sourced? Jaybainshetland (talk) 22:53, 18 November 2024 (UTC)

Chemtrails do not exist and we won't provide WP:FALSEBALANCE by suggesting that they could. (The comments on chemtrails are indeed sourced.) – Muboshgu (talk) 22:54, 18 November 2024 (UTC)

Again, i am not here to argue one side or the other, but shouldn’t their at least be a credible source? Jaybainshetland (talk) 21:54, 22 November 2024 (UTC)

It is sourced at the end of the paragraph, but if that's not enough, there are dozens more available in Chemtrail conspiracy theory, if you feel the need to add them. Black Kite (talk) 22:45, 22 November 2024 (UTC)