Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Log/2011 May 9

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The result was procedural error, this AfD is malformed and stupid. If anyone actually wants to nom this article do it properly. Shii (tock) 04:03, 9 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Keep: It's rather relevant. Czolgolz (talk) 02:37, 9 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Strong Delete: It is not going to happen, we will all die. 150.101.221.220 (talk) 02:40, 9 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Strong Delete: This is absurd and ridiculous, keep it in the Rapture article if need be. -- Big Brother ^{T | C} 03:37, 9 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. joe decker ^{talk to me} 03:50, 17 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Susan Delgado

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Fails WP:POLITICIAN as a write in candidate who garnered a total of 160 votes. AniMate 23:59, 9 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Delete - Ugh. Complete politician and general notability fail. This article is pretty much an unsourced hit-piece on Mario Gallegos, Jr. and could probably be an easy speedy. Tarc (talk) 13:13, 10 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Delete per Tarc - fairly close to an indirect db-attack page. Bearian (talk) 21:30, 10 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete Fails WP:POLITICIAN. It does read like a hit piece, but given the links at the bottom, I wouldn't call it unsourced. Ray^Talk 16:34, 11 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Delete per Ray. --Joaquin008 ^(talk) 14:43, 15 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Delete, the subject's only claim to notability is as a politician, and she received 0.19% of the vote... And, as noted above the article was probably created with ulterior motives. jorgenev 08:03, 16 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Delete All the refs seem to focus on another candidate, not on Delgado. Nothing notable here. Ebikeguy (talk) 23:25, 16 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Delete Apparently all the negative stuff about the other candidate has already been deleted. Shame on us for allowing this article to be here since 2006 - and thanks to AniMate for finally sending it to AfD. --MelanieN (talk) 00:12, 17 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. joe decker ^{talk to me} 03:50, 17 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Noah Lott

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Previously deleted as not notable and hasn't done much since then to establish notability. Doesn't meet WP:GNG, WP:ATHLETE, or WP:ENTERTAINER. Also possible WP:COI with article creator. Nikki♥311 23:58, 9 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Question: Is there are reason why the AFD for "Noah Lottick" is listed here? As far as I can tell, these are completely unrelated. -- Whpq (talk) 13:28, 10 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- Comment, I used Twinkle to do this AFD, so Lottick was automatically included...not sure why. Nikki♥311 21:19, 10 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- Its just the way that template works; can't be helped. The list is generated with Special:PrefixIndex. It works as expected most of the time, sometimes it just must be ignored. jorgenev 08:06, 16 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Delete - There is this news article from a paper in Warsaw, IN that profiles him. Aide from that, I'm not finding anything in the way of significant coverage about him. AS such he fails WP:GNG. WP:ATHLETE does not apply to professional wrestlers. This leaves WP:ENTERTAINER which is also not satisfied. -- Whpq (talk) 13:34, 10 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete Article does not establish notability. Reference section was blank when I checked it. A few matches against WWE wrestlers does not a notable individual make. Ebikeguy (talk) 23:29, 16 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. joe decker ^{talk to me} 03:51, 17 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Inderjeet Aujla

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PROD removed back in March. This player has never played in a fully-professional league, therefore failing WP:NFOOTBALL. He also fails WP:GNG (no coverage I would deem "significant") - instead what we have here is a collection of run-of-the-mill sports reports and profile pages, which contravene WP:NTEMP. It is also worth nothing the article creator is Indyaujla500 (talk · contribs) - potential COI. Giant Snowman 23:38, 9 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

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Comment, did he actually play the four games for Chester City between 2006–2007? I'm struggling to find any thing. If he did, he would meet WP:NFOOTY. --Jimbo^[online] 11:16, 10 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I couldn't find any evidence either, and this profile of him mentions he played for the reserves, but not the senior team. Giant Snowman 11:23, 10 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I couldn't find anything on the usual reliable sources such as Soccerbase or BBC Sport would pull up a match report with his name in, therefore I'm going to say delete. --Jimbo^[online] 11:29, 10 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Delete. Fails WP:NFOOTBALL and WP:GNG. Argyle 4 Life^talk 17:31, 10 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete I hate to be a curmudgeon, but this is a pretty clear case of self-promotion for a non-notable individual. He needs to wait until he achieves stardom, then let someone else write his entry. Ebikeguy (talk) 23:37, 16 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was already speedy deleted. Logan _Talk ^{Contributions} 16:06, 13 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Impact BBDO

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Delete. Non-notable company. -- Alan Liefting (talk) - 23:32, 9 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Speedy Delete as a copyvio and tagged as such. -- Whpq (talk) 13:43, 10 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was no consensus, default to keep. Any editor may re-nominate this article for deletion if they deem so necessary. Der yck C. 19:11, 24 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Slammiversary IX

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Contested WP:PROD, yet another future wrestling event; these keep being created WAY before they're notable. Future event; not yet notable; WP:CRYSTAL WP:V (same as Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Best in the World) Chzz ► 23:08, 9 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Redirect to Slammiversary. There is absolutely no information aside from venue and date. There is no coverage in reliable sources. -- Whpq (talk) 13:46, 10 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

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Keep: This is where Wikipedia policies have flaws, when people who know nothing of the subject say articles are not notable enough. The article has not been worked on enough is the issue as most of the editors who know what to do have stopped working. Not to sound big-headed but that includes myself who does this off and on. The subject matter is notable, believe me as I have made several TNA PPVs Good Article quality and Lockdown (2008) a Featured Article as I was really the only editor who expanded TNA's stuff to good qualities with guidelines. The events are covered in reliable sources such as Slam Sports, PWTorch, Wrestling Observer, The Sun, and WrestleView to name just a few. Then include magazine and news reports due to promotion leading up to the event.--WillC 04:07, 11 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- Comment - The article contains no references, and a search turns up none that I, and presumably the nominator, could find. If there are sources, by all means bring them forward. But I will point out that the article, as it stands right now contains no useful information; the nominator's statement that it is too soon for an article is more than reasonable given this. -- Whpq (talk) 10:07, 11 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  - Comment I think the phrase due to promotion leading up to the event says it all, really. Chzz ► 08:03, 20 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Keep: I don't know if you all knew this but it's something called GOOGLE Google Simply google the word Slammiversary IX and tons of links on the noticeability is there hell it's on in-demand which is the biggest ppv provider in the united states Zanwifi (talk) 23:18, 11 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- comment - Can you explain which of those represent reliable sources covering this subject in some depth? -- Whpq (talk) 01:48, 12 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Redirect to Slammiversary. My reason Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/WWE Capitol Punishment. 177.24.77.131 (talk) 02:19, 12 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Redirect to Slammiversary until the event occurs and/or third party sources are available. Nikki♥311 00:26, 17 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

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Redirect to Slammiversary until the event occurs and/or third party sources are available. 189.98.101.128 (talk) 04:43, 19 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]
No vote, but this event is due to happen on June 12, less than a month from now. If this is deleted and is resurrected after just a few days this discussion would've been pointless. –HTD (ITN: Where no updates but is stickied happens.) 14:32, 20 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Keep It's happening in less than a month, why freaking delete it? Crisis.E X E 17:43, 21 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Keep It's the next TNA PPV coming up. No deletion is necessary/redirect at all. - Sir Pawridge talk contribs 15:31, 24 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. joe decker ^{talk to me} 03:52, 17 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Cindy Pucci

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I hate nominating an article for deletion a second time, but I'm afraid I'm just not seeing what makes this person notable. I see an interview with her at Glamourcon and a blurb about an upcoming project on AVN, but I don't see any significant discussion anywhere of her career as a model, an actress, or a porn actress. My opinion is that the sources cited don't really rise to the level of WP:RS, and I'm not finding better sources using Google news. But if you disagree, I'll still like you. FisherQueen (talk · contribs) 22:31, 9 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Delete. The last AfD indicated that WP:PORNBIO was not met, and I find no indication that that has changed; I do not think that the other appearances are sufficient per the general notability guideline. The sources, interviews, and appearances are completely consistent with a minor figure in a PR-dependent industry, and do not indicate notability at this time. As the subject is a living person, future sources may reverse this assessment. - 2/0 (cont.) 22:59, 9 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Delete. The subject meets a common interpretation of PORNBIO#4, that any combination of mainstream credits and porn credits demonstrates notability. Time to put that to rest for good. Subject has negligible credits in both fields and fails the GNG. Hullaballoo Wolfowitz (talk) 02:15, 10 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Delete I couldn't find any decent sources which can be used to demonstrate notability or used to fill a bio with independently verified info. John Vandenberg ^(chat) 08:11, 10 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Delete - Pornbio #4 says "Has been featured multiple times in notable mainstream media." She has one 2nd billing in a direct-to-video of hidden camera skits. After that it is a slew of low-or-no-billing in other DTV and made-for-tv flicks. There is nothing here to satisfy any of our notability criteria. Tarc (talk) 13:23, 10 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

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This is Cindy Pucci. Please delete this!!!! —Preceding unsigned comment added by Cindypucci (talk • contribs) 04:04, 12 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was no consensus. Ron Ritzman (talk) 23:48, 15 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Best Days (Graham Colton song)

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borderline notability. Never charted, but was used on television. nothing in article is referenced, but content can be merged into main article Graham Colton to improve what is lacking there. Alan - talk 23:31, 25 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Keep - The first paragraph suggests notability. It received Billboard coverage even if it didn't chart. CycloneGU (talk) 01:05, 26 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

comment One article or review as the case may be, isn't enough for notability. it's borderline notability is the songs use on various television programs, and that's very borderline as thousands of songs are used in movies and television, and barely noticed when they are used. Alan - talk 04:08, 26 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

This is true, but I'd also be interested in others' opinions. I agree that it is borderline. But if it made one major chart anywhere (even if it's a major chart in Sweden for all we know), notability is passed. CycloneGU (talk) 04:16, 26 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I wish it had, but, he's only popular in the US and parts of Canada, with small groups in other countries due to major artists he's opened for on Us tours. It hurts me to nomininate his articles being I actually know him, but I stay neutral and that's what AFD is for.. consensus from neutral parties Alan - talk 04:24, 26 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

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Merge to Here Right Now, the album. I see no compelling reason for a separate song article. -- Whpq (talk) 13:48, 10 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was redirect to Osseo Area School District 279. joe decker ^{talk to me} 04:09, 17 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Osseo Junior High School

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Per prior consensus pre-secondary schools are usually not notable unless they stand out somehow academically, this school lacks substantial coverage outside of Primary Sources and has no notability except for being ranked slightly above average for middle schools in the state of Minnesota. Marcusmax(speak) 21:45, 9 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Redirect to school district, per standard practice for non-notable primary schools. Carrite (talk) 00:11, 10 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Keep. The school won an award as the outstanding junior high school in Minnesota. Also, the district has too many schools to accommodate unwieldy sections for each of them. The solution of redirecting to the district page should only be carried out for small districts with a handful of schools.Bellczar (talk) 01:00, 10 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

And what award might that be, show me some evidence that this is notable. -Marcusmax(speak) 20:50, 10 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

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Would it be an option to include it as a subhead in the article for Osseo High School? The two schools started as one and they share a campus including athletic facilities (e.g., the swimming pool is at the jr high; tennis courts etc. are between the schools; they share a track and ice arena; sr high football field uses jr high locker rooms) and central heating plant.Bellczar (talk) 16:17, 11 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

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Redirect to school district, per standard practice for non-notable primary schools. School district pages do not need more than a simple listing of the school. Should the school assert notability at a later date, the redirect can be simply undone. Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 08:35, 11 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]
redirect as usual. Awards can show notability , but there are no sources for any DGG ( talk ) 00:46, 16 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Redirect (without a merge of information, just a simple redirect) The claim of an award is unimpressive as well as unsourced. Supposedly "The building won an award as the outstanding new school in Minnesota of 1966." The outstanding NEW school in Minnesota? How much competition can there be for that distinction in any given year? --MelanieN (talk) 00:18, 17 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. Wizardman _{Operation Big Bear} 16:56, 16 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

List of top home run hitters by birthplace

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What makes the birthplace of the home run hitter important enough to make a list dedicated to the subject?– Muboshgu (talk) 20:55, 9 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete - As it stands now, almost entirely OR. Nor do I think that most home runs by state of birth is particularly notable. I could be persuaded that the list of top home run hitters by country of birth is appropriate, if it could be properly sourced. Rlendog (talk) 21:10, 9 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Delete. Not terribly notable or encyclopedic. --Coemgenus 01:09, 10 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Delete - Dumb trivia, nothing more, nothing found to support the notability of winners by state/province/country. Tarc (talk) 13:04, 10 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

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Very strong keep - Do you people really believe that it's "no big deal" to have the most career home runs for a player from a particular country, or from a particular state? There is nothing "trivial" about this. As for sourcing of the greatest career home run hitters by country, state, province or territory, these results all come from www.baseball-reference.com, the preeminent source of baseball statistics on the Internet, which site allows you to see lists (with full career statistics) of all players born in each jurisdiction. For example, here's the list of players born in Puerto Rico (click on "HR" and it liosts them by career home runs): http://www.baseball-reference.com/bio/P-R-_born.shtml All a person needs to know to figure out what player born in Puerto Rico hit the most homers is to know that 473 is higher than 434 or 379 (and thus Carlos Delgado, not Juan Gonzalez or Orlando Cepeda, hit the most career home runs for a player born in Puerto Rico). AuH2ORepublican (talk) 18:52, 11 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- As Chris said in the AfD for wins leaders by birthplace, you have to demonstrate why we should synthesize this statistic with place of birth. – Muboshgu (talk) 13:45, 13 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Delete as based on a nonencyclopedic cross-categorization (WP:NOTDIR #7). Deor (talk) 19:39, 15 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. -- Cirt (talk) 05:28, 17 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Hottest Female Athlete

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Not notable. Can't find any coverage from news sources, current article has no sources and very trivial information. - filelake shoe 20:48, 9 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Keep. This is not the most consequential of sports "awards", but it does receive plenty of coverage both within ESPN[1] and in other media outlets.[2] --Arxiloxos (talk) 00:46, 10 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Delete for WP:CONTINUEDCOVERAGE Mariepr (talk) 01:45, 10 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Delete Zero notability for a website's online fan poll. Not a legitimate or serious "award". Tarc (talk) 13:16, 10 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Delete - There is no coverage about this "award" other than it being mentioned in articles about the particular athletes. -- Whpq (talk) 14:01, 10 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was keep. Owen× ☎ 22:27, 16 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Kawthekar High School

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Very little content and no reliable sources, and very few ghits to indicate notability. » Swpb^{τ • ¢} 20:45, 9 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

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Keep - the arguments as to why we keep high school articles are given in the essay WP:NHS. Ghits are a very poor measure of the notability of Indian schools as most have very little in the way of Internet presence. To avoid systemic bias we should await a local search for sources from regional newspapers and libraries and the like. Lack of content is also not a valid deletion reason; that's the way of stubs; they start small and grow over the years and is how Wikipedia develops articles.

In my view, Jimmy Wales opinion from November 2003 is still valid:

"...Put another way, if someone wants to write an article about their high school, we should relax and accommodate them, even if we wish they wouldn't do it. And that's true *even if* we should react differently if someone comes in and starts mass-adding articles on every high school in the world. ..."Partial solution to rampant deletionism, Wikimedia, November 7, 2003.

TerriersFan (talk) 20:34, 10 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Keep: per TerriersFan, in accordance with every high school AfD since almost ever.--Milowent • ^talkblp-r 01:55, 11 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Keep per TerriersFan, who clearly outlines for us once again the standard practice. Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 08:19, 11 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. -- Cirt (talk) 05:28, 17 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

2006 Major League Baseball season pitching leaders

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Wikipedia is not an almanac. Anything from this page that needs to be covered can be covered at 2006 Major League Baseball season. This strikes me as an effort that was taken up in 2006 and then abandoned.

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Comment - I'm not sure what to do about the stats cruft. There are plenty of resources out there with sortable stat capabilities, why should Wikipedia attempt to be an inferior incarnation of these? Carrite (talk) 00:17, 10 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete per nom. Wizardman _{Operation Big Bear} 17:12, 11 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was keep (non-admin closure). Jenks24 (talk) 03:08, 17 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

William Hope (actor)

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An apparenly notable actor, whose BLP is totally unreferenced and seeming unreferenceable to reliable sources. Rocksanddirt (talk) 20:22, 9 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

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Keep. References can be found with a quick Google search for "William Hope actor". --That Ole' Cheesy Dude (Talk to the hand!) 22:55, 9 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

when i did that I found an IMDB ref (only kinda reliable), and other things that were not the actor. If you find some please add reliable sources to the article. --Rocksanddirt (talk) 22:58, 9 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Keep This actor has appeared in many significant productions; meets WP:ENT. --Jezebel'sPonyo ^{bons mots} 23:05, 9 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Keep - I found and added some sources. Granted, he's not the best-known actor, but the article is sourceable. Bearian (talk) 22:21, 10 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]
~~Speedy procedural~~ keep and close per the speedy keep of just [two months and] two days before this renomination. Schmidt, ^{MICHAEL Q.} 03:04, 12 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- Erm... that was two months and two days ago ;) Logan _Talk ^{Contributions} 16:03, 13 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  - Oops. My bad. Corrected above. Still think this AFD should be closed, as not being fixed is a reason to do so, but not to delete an improvable article because it was not done within some arbitrary deadline. Schmidt, ^{MICHAEL Q.} 19:39, 13 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was keep. -- Cirt (talk) 05:28, 17 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Salma Shabana

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Does not meet WP:GNG. Nipsonanomhmata ^(Talk) 20:25, 9 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

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Keep - Per WP:NSPORT, athletes competing at the highest level in their sport as considered notable. Her WISPA profile (world governing body for women's squash), her highest ranking was 20, and she has competed at top level competitions. For example, she has competed at the WORLD OPEN 2002. World Open, and Grand Slam events are the top level of competition on the WISPA tour. -- Whpq (talk) 14:23, 10 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Keep per Whpq, it looks like she meets NSPORT. Qrsdogg (talk) 04:42, 14 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. joe decker ^{talk to me} 03:53, 17 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

World Ju-Jitsu Federation

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A article with questionable notability without sources to support otherwise Dwanyewest (talk) 20:14, 9 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete Apparently, despite it's name, this organization is part of a larger organization. I found no reliable and independent sources that show this organization is notable. Astudent0 (talk) 16:21, 10 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Delete I also found no coverage of this organization in reliable and independent sources. Papaursa (talk) 20:52, 13 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Delete. I see nothing in the article to support notability, and on a cursory search found no independent sources to support notability. Janggeom (talk) 05:04, 16 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. Owen× ☎ 22:03, 16 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

UKJJAI – The United Kingdom Jujitsu Association International

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A article with questionable notability without sources to support otherwise. This is long lacking overdue for deletion Dwanyewest (talk) 20:15, 9 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete This is an unsourced article about a non-notable organization. My search found no independent and reliable sources that would support this organization's claim to notability. Papaursa (talk) 00:16, 10 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Delete My search found no reliable sources that show notability. Astudent0 (talk) 17:01, 10 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Delete following all the other comments above. Janggeom (talk) 04:58, 16 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was keep (non-admin closure). Jenks24 (talk) 03:15, 17 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Shirin Guild

AfDs for this article:

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This is a promotional article for a Non-Notable clothing line and fashion designer. The result of the first AfD in 2006 was to give the article time to develop. After 5 years it still lacks any sources. Poyani (talk) 20:07, 9 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

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Keep - Notable high-end fashion designer. Her work was included in a British fashion exhibition at the Victoria and Albert Museum. This book provides verification for this as part of a chapter covering Shirin Guild and her work. She has also received coverage in news media: [3], [4],. -- Whpq (talk) 18:24, 11 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Keep, the sources added to the article by Whpq are sufficient to meet WP:GNG. --joe decker ^{talk to me} 19:32, 11 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was keep. Owen× ☎ 22:00, 16 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Banknotes of the Indonesian rupiah

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A very excessive list of banknotes from one area, no references. All the images have been tagged as free use (and currently removed - as excessive free usage of images in one article). Ronhjones ^(Talk) 19:59, 9 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Keep - Indonesian currency will be covered in all major international banknote catalogues, and is clearly notable. There will also be plenty of Indonesian sources available. The length of article is an argument for splitting it into articles based on denomination or series, not for deleting it. I'm not sure why having a lot of "free use" images would be a bad thing. --Anthem of joy (talk) 20:23, 9 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Weak Keep. The subject, a national currency, is notable - and it has its own article at Indonesian rupiah. Note, though, that the main article is already tagged as {{Very long}} - which means that forking out subjects for their own articles is warranted. And so, here we are. If it's sourceable, then we need to keep the article. The image problems are a separate issue, one not related to whether or not the article should be deleted. UltraExactZZ ^Said~ Did 20:41, 9 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Keep. Per above and article seems like it could be sourced with some effort. --That Ole' Cheesy Dude (Talk to the hand!) 22:52, 9 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Speedy Keep as the person removing the non-free content, I see no reason for deleting the article, a re-evaluation and introducing one or two non-free images along with a few sources and this will make a fairly good article. ΔT _{^{The only constant}} 00:03, 10 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Keep. Certainly better referencing is in order, but why would any of those reasons warrant deletion? The existence of this currency and its notes is trivially verifiable. Jpatokal (talk) 23:03, 9 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Keep. Reincorporation into the main article will make it too long, if this article is deleted then nomination for all banknote articles is warrented. Enlil Ninlil (talk) 08:58, 10 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

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Speedy Keep. Information about the denominations of national currencies is generally notable. References need improvement, but that is not a cause for deletion. Crisco 1492 (talk) 03:26, 14 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. -- Cirt (talk) 05:27, 17 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Aphrodite Lafont

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Article about some book character who is not notable. The main character does not even have her own page. Username1234567891011 (talk) 19:53, 9 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Delete - no third party coverage readily available through the internet. --Anthem of joy (talk) 20:24, 9 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete per nom, Sadads (talk) 16:20, 11 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Delete While fictional characters from notable works should normally be merged or redirected to the work, I can't even determine from the article which book the character derives. If anyone can identify such a work that is notable and has its own Wikipedia article, I'd be happy to see this merged or redirected there. Jclemens (talk) 18:37, 11 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]
She is from The House of Night series. --Username1234567891011 (talk) 23:12, 11 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Merge or Redirect to House_of_Night_(series)#Prophetess per WP:BEFORE. --Malkinann (talk) 00:23, 12 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Delete The fictional character does not meet the general notability guideline because it does not provide reliable third-party sources independent of the subject and a search engine test shows unreliable sources only. The article is also a plot-only description of a fictional work with no real-world context so there is no reason to keep it around. Jfgslo (talk) 04:43, 16 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. Wizardman _{Operation Big Bear} 18:46, 17 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Zoot Suit Women

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Essay. There's probably some information that can be salvaged and merged into other articles. After that, redir. If not, delete. - UtherSRG (talk) 19:18, 9 May 2011 (UTC) UtherSRG (talk) 19:18, 9 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Redirect. OR essay. It can go to zoot suit. Szzuk (talk) 07:20, 10 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete, an interesting essay, but Wikipedia is not the place for this per WP:SYN. jorgenev 08:15, 16 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]
The first part could be covered in Pachuco, if anything isn't already over there. The Sleepy Lagoon murder already has an article, as does the film its based on. Dream Focus 04:41, 17 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. Favonian (talk) 19:44, 16 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

FML (film)

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Notability of independent student film in question. Karl 334 ^{☞TALK to ME ☜} 18:57, 9 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Delete. This search string yields no results on Google News. -- Blanchardb -^{Me•MyEars•MyMouth}- timed 19:20, 9 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Delete. Not even released yet. — RHaworth (talk · contribs) 20:11, 9 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

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Keep - I am interested - as I suspect are others - in understanding more about the source and development of new entrants in the UK film industry. This kind of detail is not easy to find. Meets WP:GNG 5 —Preceding unsigned comment added by TheShapeProject (talk • contribs) 22:17, 9 May 2011 (UTC) — TheShapeProject (talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic. [reply]

Comment - Facebook and YouTube are not reliable sources to meet WP:GNG. The other sources provided do not even mention this film. Karl 334 ^{☞TALK to ME ☜} 22:22, 9 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Comment - I read [[WP:GNG] 5 as meaning someone finds it interesting and for what I am doing it is. You obviously have strong feelings about it. Fortunately I've read it before you got to delete it :) TheShapeProject (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 22:28, 9 May 2011 (UTC).[reply]

WP:GNG states "If a topic has received significant coverage in reliable sources that are independent of the subject, it is presumed to satisfy the inclusion criteria for a stand-alone article or stand-alone list." This topic has not received this kind of coverage. Please read Wikipedia:Notability (films) for more information on what is considered notable. Karl 334 ^{☞TALK to ME ☜} 22:34, 9 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

You’re right on WP:GNG general notability – but WP:RFD#KEEP point 5 says “Someone finds them useful. Hint: If someone says they find a redirect useful, they probably do. You might not find it useful—this is not because the other person is being untruthful, but because you browse Wikipedia in different ways” How much attention should we pay to what interests people?TheShapeProject (talk) 22:59, 9 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

WP:RFD#KEEP is for redirects, not articles. -- Blanchardb -^{Me•MyEars•MyMouth}- timed 00:45, 10 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Keep - As the writer of the page. I do sympathise with the views expressed over the deletion of this page. However I do also feel that citing 'Is not even released yet' should not factor into the argument. Sadly, in the world of small time independent film, it is extremely hard to gain notice from someone as large as a primary source, especially while still in the production stage. I am heartened to hear that some people appear to back me up that the page is useful, especially considering it is written with total impartiality, and intended to raise awareness instead of sell the film. However, if the reasons I have put are not enough to save the page from deletion, then I guess deleted it must be. At least until the time (should that day come), the film is renowned enough to have access to a first party citation. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Blind sniper43 (talk • contribs) 23:09, 9 May 2011 (UTC) — Blind sniper43 (talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic. [reply]
- Comment I think there sometimes comes a time, where the upholding of rules actually starts to limit progress. The rules are put in place to a) Stop spam and malicious perversion of content, b) Prevent blatant advertising and c) To ensure the accuracy of all Wikipedia articles, ensuring that they remain factually correct. It does seem to me, slightly wrong, to penalise a fledgling company purely because they do not yet have the contacts in order to provide the wealth of citations required, especially while they are striving to maintain Wikipedia's high standards, and not posting any inflammatory content. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Blind sniper43 (talk • contribs) 23:17, 9 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I would like to make something clear, I am not against this article, I am for following the rules of inclusion for this encyclopedia. I am not stoping this article from becoming notable, and once it is, by all means post it in this encyclopedia. But until then rules must be followed, because if we let this one go, hundreds of other articles with poor or no notability have to be let go and this encyclopedia will be useless. My 2 Cents. Karl 334 ^{☞TALK to ME ☜} 04:35, 10 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I understand what you are saying, and accept that you are following rules. It just strikes me that Wiki should be used to inform, and the rules have the unfortunate side effect of penalising small scale industries like music and film, and actually generating somewhat of a hole in your content as a result. It is so hard to gain the citations required, purely due the level of secrecy needed to protect the ideas in the film. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Blind sniper43 (talk • contribs) 14:40, 10 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Keep It is shameful that, for the sake of upholding petty rules, new entrants to the independent UK film industry are made to suffer. The page is clearly written and I for one found it informative and entertaining to read. Therefore, I hope that the wikipedia admins see sense on this issue and agree to keep this page online. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Turok117 (talk • contribs) 18:04, 10 May 2011 (UTC) — Turok117 (talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic. [reply]
- It's not "petty" rules. As encyclopedists, we have a responsibility to ensure as much as possible the accuracy of the contents of this website. This means all information must be verifiable, and by that we mean that we must be able to verify the information without having to contact the concerned parties. That means there has to be some third-party reference available at arm's length that we may consult for verification. ("Taking your word for it" means opening the door to hoaxes and projects that will never see the light of day.) If that makes small producers suffer, then that's a lesser evil, but please keep in mind that if the finished product gets enough attention once released, then your "suffering" will only be temporary. And please keep in mind that every single item that is covered in Wikipedia was at some point unworthy of inclusion, so sticking to the "petty" rules puts everybody on a level playing field. -- Blanchardb -^{Me•MyEars•MyMouth}- timed 22:25, 10 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

But these rules mean that Wikipedia is going to be unable to host articles for small independent films full stop. There is no way for them to gain citation, and as a result it is unlikely that a cultural movement will be accurately represented within the encyclopaedia. Thus wiki generates its own hole. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Blind sniper43 (talk • contribs) 23:18, 10 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Yup. That's the lesser evil I was talking about. Wikipedia was never meant as a vehicle of promotion anyway. -- Blanchardb -^{Me•MyEars•MyMouth}- timed 23:39, 10 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Delete The film is not released yet, and there is not any visible published lead-up to the release of the movie. It has no pre-release reviews from national reviewers, and fulfills none of the requirements for notability found in WP:MOVIE Inks.LWC (talk) 02:31, 15 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Delete not released, and, nothing in the article indicates that it will be notable when it is release. I would , frankly, be perfectly prepared to speedy0-delete this article as G11, entirely promotional. It's argued above that enforcing the rules on notability might mean we "never have articles for independent student films". That would usually be the case, and that's exactly why we do have rules on notability . But it has happened that student films have received critical attention, no matter how rarely it happens, and there is the possibility that one might be notable. It is also the case that a student film by someone who subsequently becomes a famous film-maker whose works are taught in courses about film might become notable on that ground. So delete until one of the people involved become famous. thearguments otherwise amount to "ITS MINE AND I LIKE IT" DGG ( talk ) 00:54, 16 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Delete, student film, low budget, home production, no coverage, refs are all to facebook and youtube. jorgenev 08:17, 16 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. No prejudice to recreate as a redir. Owen× ☎ 21:52, 16 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Submarines in world war 2

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Essay that should be merged into other articles and then deleted. - UtherSRG (talk) 18:43, 9 May 2011 (UTC) UtherSRG (talk) 18:43, 9 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Smerge and redirect to Submarine#Submarines during World War II. -- Blanchardb -^{Me•MyEars•MyMouth}- timed 19:23, 9 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- The title is useful as a redirect. I think it should stay, even if the rest gets nuked. -- Blanchardb -^{Me•MyEars•MyMouth}- timed 22:49, 10 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Delete. Just look at it. What a mess. --That Ole' Cheesy Dude (Talk to the hand!) 22:56, 9 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Delete no merge if it were merged it would need to be redirected. There are no references. 184.144.163.181 (talk) 05:26, 10 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Delete no merge essay Jimfbleak - talk to me? 13:05, 10 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Delete - WP:NOTESSAY. This is a one-edit editor's bad attempt at a school essay...and it looks like a big fat F, IMO. Nothing useful to merge, just nuke it. Tarc (talk) 13:28, 10 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete - for reasons given above. --RightCowLeftCoast (talk) 17:49, 11 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Redirect: very poor essay, not much worth saving, but it could be useful as a redirect. bahamut0013^words _deeds 19:13, 11 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Delete - per nomination. Anotherclown (talk) 11:12, 12 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was Nominator withdrawn without prejudice there seems to be a commitment to improve this new article. bW 16:52, 11 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Anna May-Rychter

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Non-notable artist. 55% of this article is sourced to, I kid you not, an auction site and a website selling her painting, hence failing as a article primarily based on self published sources. Also, even if the lone independent source were to be used for the rest, it would not be multiple, significant coverage in reliable sources. BelloWello (talk) 18:26, 9 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Comment There's a brief mention of her in a footnote on p156 of Rudolf Steiner's "Art as spiritual activity" (ISBN 0880103965); she also has a short entry in Adrian Darmon's "Autour de l'art juif" (ISBN 2848550112) - not particularly accurate: "German? Active at the end of the 19th century". But I doubt these are sufficient to establish notability. AllyD (talk) 20:46, 9 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

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see[5]I.Casaubon (talk) 16:21, 11 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Keep interesting minor early twentieth century artist undergoing revival of interest at auction. Auction houses like Christie's are regarded in the art world as reliable sources for information on minor artists. I just added a German source. And a list of recent auction records. I think that wehn an artist has been dead for decades, and the work continues to sell, There is a reasonable case that that artist is WP:Notable. I saw her work in a gallery, liked it, and looked for more information. Surely that is a useful role for Wikipedia to play.I.Casaubon (talk) 13:40, 10 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Closing administrator should be aware that the nom followed me to this page from a series of AFD's on Christain topics where I have argued strongly for keeping articles that he argued for deleting. See: [6]. I accused him of making false assertions in his AFD nom.I.Casaubon (talk) 21:12, 9 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Keep and rename the article to Anna Rychter-May with a redirect at this name, since that is the name used in most English language sources. She signed her paintings "A. Rychter-May". Using Google translate to read the German article now used as a reference, I see good biographical information, and also that there are about half a dozen additional references listed in German, plus a claim that a Jerusalem newspaper wrote an article about her upon her death. Here's Lost Legacy, the original 2003 Ha'aretz article, as opposed to the reprint by an art gallery now used as a reference. It also appears that several directories of artists list her, such as Davenport's art reference & price guide, Volume 2 and Autour de l'art juif: encyclopédie des peintres, photographes et sculpteurs and Dictionary of women artists: an international dictionary of women artists born before 1900. The Baltimore Sun reported that one of her paintings was part of a landscape painting exhibit in 1965 here. I don't have a problem using commercial art auction records as references about long-dead artists. I think that the existence of a documented resale market goes to establish notability of dead artists, but I would be opposed to relying solely on commercial gallery listings to establish notability of living artists. Cullen328 (talk) 01:53, 11 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Weak keep. Shee's only barely notable. But, BelloWello, I can assure you that Christie's catalogues are very much reliable sources. They are cited in academic publications. However, they do not establish notability, since Christie's of course must write entries on everything they sell. The length and scholarly detail of the entry is usually a good sign of notability. Paul B (talk) 16:41, 11 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. joe decker ^{talk to me} 03:58, 17 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Transborder

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Contested prod. Editorial about US immigrants from the Mexican state of Oaxaca. Factual information duplicates Mexican American, and the term has no evidence of notability. Delete. Blanchardb -^{Me•MyEars•MyMouth}- timed 18:19, 9 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Delete Questionable notability of the term. CrossTempleJay talk 19:00, 9 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Delete Non notable term. Safiel (talk) 21:12, 9 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Delete per the above. If the term comes into common currency at some future date, an article may be appropriate - but not now. UltraExactZZ ^Said~ Did 16:42, 11 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was speedily deleted by Hit bull, win steak (talk · contribs); rationale was "G10: Attack page or negative unsourced BLP: Accusations of criminal activity by group, w/o evidentiary support." Non-admin closure. —KuyaBriBri^Talk 21:52, 9 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Weetos clan

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PROD-contested by IP. No coverage in independent sources, which fails WP:GNG and WP:V. elektrik SHOOS 18:08, 9 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Actually, I'm withdrawing my nomination, as I'll be tagging that article for speedy deletion under criteria G3 (blatant hoax). elektrik SHOOS 18:17, 9 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- Keep this nomination open... just in case... -- Blanchardb -^{Me•MyEars•MyMouth}- timed 18:28, 9 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Delete. Unreferenced, may fall under G10 speedy criterion. -- Blanchardb -^{Me•MyEars•MyMouth}- timed 18:30, 9 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Delete I don't think it's a hoax, as there are one or two unreliable mentions on the net. Unreliable by our standard, but probably indicating existence. Definitely not indicating notability, however. Peridon (talk) 19:28, 9 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was keep. Not an obvious consensus, but the keeps present a stronger case than the merge opinions. Owen× ☎ 21:44, 16 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Huthaifa al-Batawi

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Not notable, as the sources just indicate death. Intoronto1125TalkContributions 17:50, 9 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Delete per WP:BLP1E. The sources warrant an article for the event, but not for the people involved. -- Blanchardb -^{Me•MyEars•MyMouth}- timed 18:40, 9 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Merge. The event could have an article with information on al-Batawi included. Raphie (talk) 18:43, 9 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Keep. Known for more than one event. See, for example, Militant leader among 12 caught in connection with Iraq church siege from November 2010. WWGB (talk) 00:13, 10 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Merge with Islamic State of Iraq. Sources indicate no notability of his own other from being leader of that organization. PluniAlmoni (talk) 10:37, 11 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

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Keep per WWGB. WP:BLP1E does not apply. ~~ Lothar von Richthofen (talk) 18:15, 13 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Keep The article indicates strong significance, just because the event is detailed does not mean his life is that one event and thus the article. Zenithfel (talk) 16:54, 14 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Keep figure of importance in major historic events, which will be part of the historical record--in. BLP obviously does not apply, and wouldn't even if he were still alive. The suggested merge is so drastic as to amount to deletion. DGG ( talk ) 04:57, 16 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. Owen× ☎ 21:39, 16 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Vladan Nesovic

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WP:V/N: While the anchor gig might or might not confer notability, I am unable to find reliable sources to verify the position or to establish any notability via the GNG. joe decker ^{talk to me} 17:48, 9 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Delete. No references, none can be found. However, if one can propose an alternate spelling of this Serbian name that leads to reliable sources, I am willing to change my !vote. -- Blanchardb -^{Me•MyEars•MyMouth}- timed 18:44, 9 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Delete Non-notable personality. CrossTempleJay talk 19:00, 9 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Delete: Not finding sourcing.--Milowent • ^talkblp-r 03:14, 11 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete Article asserts "his debut was "Vlast" from B. Nusic, playing on 448 W. Barry Ave. in Chicago, which is the Serbian theatre building." Well... "Vlast" is a play by Branislav Nusic (born 1864, died 1938) that was made into a TV film of the same name back in 1974. A Mira Sremcevic and Ankica Ratarac are associated with the St.Sava Serbian Cultural And Arts Center in Chicago,[7] so it is just possible that our Vladan Nesovic may have appeard in a 2003 revival of that play. But every other search for someone named "Vladan Nesovic" gives only the various Wikipedia mirors, and his social networking sites... such as his Facebook page. The name spelling seems okay, but the fellow just does not have sourcable notability. Schmidt, ^{MICHAEL Q.} 02:36, 12 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was keep. It's snowing in May Courcelles 15:19, 12 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Allyson Hennessy

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Not notable, as the sources just indicate death. Intoronto1125TalkContributions 17:47, 9 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Keep - Hennessy is a veteran news presenter and host in the Trinidad and Tabago community and has received a wide variety of coverage in multiple reliable sources. The New York Times even describes her as a "local television star". Meets WP:GNG. --Jezebel'sPonyo ^{bons mots} 18:44, 9 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Keep. I'd expect online references to be hard to find for Trinidad-based stars, however this reliable source acknowledges her status in the community, albeit weakly. -- Blanchardb -^{Me•MyEars•MyMouth}- timed 18:49, 9 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Keep - this is a trinidadian article so i expect it does not have much sources just like other trinidadian articles,she is a very famous person. 190.213.51.85 (talk) 23:06, 9 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Keep - i agree with all those reasons above and the decision to keep the article :) 744cody (talk) 23:09, 9 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Keep there are lots of quality in-depth sources. John Vandenberg ^(chat) 09:23, 10 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Keep - the reasons listed above are clear. There are many sources. Scanlan (talk) 14:01, 10 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

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Keep Another source here in Trinidad and Tobago's oldest newspaper. Looks like someone who was much loved by the people she served. If they think she's notable enough for multiple updates on her progress whilst she was ill [8] [9] [10] (including the apparent involvement of the country's Health Minister re blood donation (see ref 2)) then she's notable enough for here. (Would still be nice to get a full obit to flesh out the article a little, though) Ka Faraq Gatri (talk) 00:36, 11 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Sorry, that should have been "see ref 3" Ka Faraq Gatri (talk) 00:38, 11 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

She was also awarded the Trinidad & Tobago Publishers and Broadcasters Association’s Award for Media Excellence 2009 (page displays poorly on my browser but she's there). Ka Faraq Gatri (talk) 01:08, 11 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Strong keep - the article is now well sourced, and she easily meets WP:GNG. Guettarda (talk) 04:11, 12 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was keep. General consensus leans towards keep and nominator wishes to withdraw the deletion nomination. Der yck C. 19:14, 25 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Woo Lam 92 (protocol)

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It is an insecure, inefficient, and flawed-by-design cryptographic protocol whose only notability is its insecurity. (Plus, even the description of the protocol on this page is erroneous.) Nageh (talk) 16:04, 9 May 2011 (UTC) Afterthought: I think I need to retract my AfD vote. The issue I was trying to bring up was that there are tons of flawed authentication protocol designs, and IMO most of them are hardly notable. Protocols like Needham-Schroeder and Otway-Rees are way more notable, were used in practice, provide the basis for many other similar protocols, but do have design flaws as well, just as earlier versions of Kerberos. On the other hand, we do have articles on protocols that are equally non-notable as Woo-Lam, and are present simply because Bruce Schneier chose to cover them in his Applied Cryptography book. Sigh, even Woo-Lam is covered in his book, so I guess I'm at loss. :/ Nageh (talk) 10:03, 10 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Comment if it is notable for its insecurity, then it's notable. The others are not arguments for deletion. Sergeant Cribb (talk) 17:10, 9 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Right, I tend to forget that there is no WP:COMMONSENSE on Wikipedia. How about this: The protocol is not used at all in practice, never was, is not mentioned in as good as all established reference books on the subject (entity authentication/identification protocols), and just is not notable at all. What I was trying to say was that its insecurity is its most notable (but IMO still not notable enough) aspect. (PS: Don't take my rant too personal.) Nageh (talk) 20:23, 9 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Not at all. Sergeant Cribb (talk) 20:35, 9 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Delete. As stated by Sergeant Cribb, if this protocol's lack of safety is the reason for its notability, then it does meet our notability guidelines. However, a Google search yields no reference about it that can be used to demonstrate notability, regardless of whether it's notable for the wrong reasons. -- Blanchardb -^{Me•MyEars•MyMouth}- timed 18:58, 9 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Keep I wrote this page, because woo Lam protocol is shown in university as a basic model for mutual authentication using a KDC. and i noticed with a short search that there is close to nothing explaining the protocol. part of the only locations where it is mentioned are in academic web sites where this is being brought as a simple example, woo lam is usually used as a stater subject before explaining Kerberos to students. i agree that it might not be efficient or secure as others out there, but for the same reason they still hold on to it in the academia, i think it should stay. would be glad to get comments regarding any errors i might have done. i haven't had time to finish it (i just opened it a few hours ago - you guys are quick) but i'll be glad to fix it up more if it wont be deleted. (mike) 10:00, 9 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- That the protocol can or can't be used in real life for whatever reason will be of no concern in this discussion. If we can find evidence that it is indeed shown in university textbooks (and I mean more than just the teacher's handouts), that might be just what it takes to make it meet our notability guidelines. -- Blanchardb -^{Me•MyEars•MyMouth}- timed 22:43, 9 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]
~~KEEP:~~(duplicate vote) I have found several notable places (thanks to Prof' gudes) discussing the woo lam protocol
1) Cryptography and Network Security. (p 387) by William Stallings
2)Woo, T., and Lam, S."'Authentication' Revisited." Computer, April 1992.
ACM Digital library ^[1] Volume 25 Issue 3, March 1992
3) Woo, T., and Lam, S."Authentication for Distributed Systems."Computer, January 1992.
Mike2learn (talk) 22:40, 15 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

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Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so a clearer consensus may be reached.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Sandstein 05:27, 18 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

~~Delete~~. Stallings uses the two Woo-Lam protocols/papers to show that "protocols that appeared secure were revised after additional analysis. These examples highlight the difficulty of getting things right in the area of authentication." Meh, no real importance, just an example. Tijfo098 (talk) 08:45, 18 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Unlike Needham's "Authentication revisited" paper, which has 200+ citations in GS, Woo & Lam's paper with the same title has only 11. Tijfo098 (talk) 08:48, 18 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- I think importance is in the context you place it in. It is notable, as it is used in the academia (As shown in the references above) and is a good example of the evolution of authentication protocols. regarding the quote " These examples highlight..." from stallings book , he also says "SHA and Whirlpool are examples of these two approaches" (pg 353) being an example does not take away notability or importance. Stalling shows full description of both 92a and 92b protocol with detailed description. Mike2learn (talk) 20:04, 19 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Weak keep. The article needs more work to pass NPOV, even for the latter protocol [11] [12], however GNG seems satisfied. It would probably be easier for the reader if all the more obscure symmetric key authentication protocols were on one page, like in that book, but Wikipedia is seldom targeted at satisfying the reader, because of who writes it. Tijfo098 (talk) 01:55, 21 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Conditional keep If indeed covered in Schneier's Applied Cryptography (I haven't checked) that would be enough to establish independent notability. —Ruud 11:46, 22 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- It's covered in 3+ textbooks: Schneier, Stallings, and the authentication one linked by me above. It's also covered in a couple more where only the clearly flawed protocol is given [13] [14]. It's the low citation count for the "corrected" protocol(s) that makes this a questionable topic by itself; I put corrected in quotes because it still relies on the sender being able to detect replays of its own messages. [15] Tijfo098 (talk) 12:16, 22 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Suggestion and comment. The references provided by Tijfo098 describe quite a different protocol than the ones described in the article. In particular, the former are symmetric-key protocols while the latter rely on public-key cryptography. This is curious insofar as we are now at four different protocols described as Woo-Lam authentication protocols by different sources. All of them are border-case in notability, IMHO. As sort of a compromise I suggest the following:
- The article is renamed Woo–Lam (protocol) and describes both the two symmetric-key variants (the broken one and the less broken one) and the two public-key protocols (again the totally broken one and the less broken one).
- It does away with naming the protocol Woo-Lam 92 because that is original research, and in fact only the reference was entitled [Woo-Lam 92] in Stalling's book.
- Mike2learn, would you please correct the protocol description so it does not state rubbish like "public-key encryption with a private key" (what?) or "signing with the public key" (what the...?). In particular, there is no need to indicate which of public or private key is to be used for public-key encryption or signing, respectively. You may also add some notes about the insecurity of the protocol and that it serves as an example in this regard. Finally, note that neither the authors' homepages nor their original research papers are suitable secondary sources to establish notability. While you may cite the papers you should reference Stalling's book as a reliable secondary source on the protocol in the article.

Cheers, Nageh (talk) 21:50, 24 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

^ Authentication Revisited. 25 (3). March 1992 http://portal.acm.org/citation.cfm?id=J169&picked=prox&cfid=21318459&cftoken=81654866. {{cite journal}}: Missing or empty |title= (help)

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The result was delete. Owen× ☎ 21:32, 16 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Gang Stalking Controversy

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Highly POV article that draws some drastic original conclusions (i.e. gang stalking is a form of COINTELPRO). Article's author has been trying unsuccessfully to get this information introduced into Wikipedia for several weeks now, and had a similar article deleted via Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Gang Stalking Lawsuit. The article as it stands represents a rather serious fork of the material at Stalking. WikiDan61^ChatMe!_ReadMe!! 15:35, 9 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

DO NOT DELETE. The term "gang stalking" has numerous meanings, not just one, I grant. There is controversy a-plenty as to whether the term is apt when used to label some of the wide range of phenomena it is used to label. There are certainly people (let us call them "gang stalking deniers") with the theory that the widespread testimony of gang stalking is entirely attributable to persons suffering from paranoia giving false testimony of gang stalking. On the other side, there are those (the COINTELPRO theorists) who theorise that all gang stalking reports are attributable to a renaissance of COINTELPRO. But these observations - the ambiguities, the controversy and the prejudices of vocal minorities, are reasons for having a thorough, scholarly and balanced entry on gang stalking, not reasons for not having an entry at all. The term has become a part of the language, and with good reason. It would diminish Wikipedia to give in to one particular faction, however vocal. Those whom I have called the "gang stalking deniers" would be the only beneficiaries of a deletion of the entry. Given that it has been a long time since the former COINTELPRO inquiries, and the similarities between some gang stalking reports and COINTELPRO crimes of earlier decades, it might also be UNSAFE to suppress the entry. And, deleting the entry would certainly pour fertiliser on the conspiracy theories. —Preceding unsigned comment added by John Allman (talk • contribs) 20:28, 16 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Delete: this conspiracy POV-pushing has been an ongoing negative trend; note the history of it on Talk:Stalking, leading to emotional outbursts from dozens of IPs, etc. Interestingly enough, the NYT link provided to "evidence" that there is a distinction between psychosis and Gang Stalking paranoia is actually a far more instructive analysis of the mental issues involved, but certainly says nothing at all to substantiate that this is a real problem as opposed to a psychosis or "shared belief system." MatthewVanitas (talk) 15:55, 9 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

DO NOT DELETE, opponent arguments FAIL to address how this page does not qualify as a CONTROVERSY. There are clearly strong opinions on both sides.

Furthermore the affidavit by Ted Gunderson does relate Gang Stalking to COINTELPRO. And if not then only that section should be deleted.

The NYT article presents the psychosis point of view because this is a CONTROVERSY, that is what the title says. Advocates for deletion are clearly BIASED and only serve to reinforce the fact that this issue is properly defined as a controversy. --Paulc2 (talk) 17:02, 9 May 2011 (UTC) — Paulc2 (talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic. [reply]

Delete. The few sources used that qualify as reliable do talk about gang stalking, but none of them mention anything about a controversy. Furthermore, we already have an article on cyberstalking. -- Blanchardb -^{Me•MyEars•MyMouth}- timed 20:33, 9 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

DO NOT DELETE: The National Center for Victims of Crime, the largest government funded victims' group is receiving thousands of calls every month complaining about gang stalking nationwide.Italic text'This can be verified ny ANYONE by calling (contact information removed). Surely there is a controversy as to whether there is a shared "delusional system" of countless thousanda of Americans or a COINTELPRO-style social engineering scheme. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.89.217.169 (talk) 20:52, 9 May 2011 (UTC) — 72.89.217.169 (talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic. [reply]
- If the only way to verify the information is to contact the organization directly, then the information quite simply does not meet our guidelines for verifiability. What printed or online reliable source from a third party may we consult to verify the information? Please note that if there's no such source, then we'll have no choice but to side with the government that doesn't want you to know; however, we will not stand in your way when you take your information to Facebook or Twitter. (hint, hint...) -- Blanchardb -^{Me•MyEars•MyMouth}- timed 22:11, 9 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Delete. There is no evidence of any notable controversy here, in that no reliable sources have been produced that say that this is anything other than a delusional conspiracy theory. For related discussions about previous attempts to get this rubbish into Wikipedia see Talk:Stalking, WP:Articles for deletion/Gang stalking and WP:articles for deletion/Cause stalking. Phil Bridger (talk) 21:43, 9 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

DO NOT DELETE. There is an affidavit of a former FBI Chief on gang stalking. There is a link to a Santa Cruz Police Lieutenant's press conference on gang stalking. There are official D.O.J. documents showing 185,050 Americans stalked by teams or groups of between 2 and 50. Try reading the article. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.89.220.7 (talk) 01:45, 10 May 2011 (UTC) — 72.89.220.7 (talk) has made few or no other edits outside this topic. [reply]
- Yup. I've read it all. Nothing that points to a C.O.N.T.R.O.V.E.R.S.Y. -- Blanchardb -^{Me•MyEars•MyMouth}- timed 02:21, 10 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

~~Don’t delete:~~ you may not !vote twice. A controversy is defined as: 1. a prolonged public dispute, debate, or contention; disputation concerning a matter of opinion. 2. contention, strife, or argument.

There is a Federal case pending on this issue. The Judge is expected to rule on it any day.

If the court rules gang stalking is going on then deletion is going to put Wikipedia in a potentially embarrassing position.

The opponents here are irrationally biased therefore should not be taken seriously. --Paulc2 (talk) 14:51, 10 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Given that there's nothing more than a court case to point to the existence of a dispute, then I think Wikipedia should take its chances with the possible embarassment. Otherwise, every instance of someone fighting a speeding ticket would warrant a Wikipedia article. -- Blanchardb -^{Me•MyEars•MyMouth}- timed 21:38, 10 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

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Real professional for Wiki Editors to censor a pro-article user from voting twice when anti-article users are posting four times. What percentage of Wiki Editors are salaried government employees? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.89.218.64 (talk) 20:38, 14 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

You can't vote multiple times, but you may add to the discussion without voting. -- Blanchardb -^{Me•MyEars•MyMouth}- timed 04:40, 15 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete no evidence for actual existence of the topic , at least as presented in the article. Not even a notable conspiracy theory. Amounts to publicity for the PI involved, and nothing more. DGG ( talk ) 01:00, 16 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Delete. This belongs to cyberstalking. Hodja Nasreddin (talk) 04:03, 16 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Don't Delete:'Bold textNot even a notable conspiracy theory?Italic text'Have you looked at the Hundreds of Thousands of Google search hits for "organized stalking", "group stalking", "gang stalking" and similar terms. Are you a joker? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.89.220.161 (talk) 13:00, 16 May 2011 (UTC) — 72.89.220.161 (talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic. [reply]

Speedy delete. This contrived controversy is a smoke screen intended to distract brainwashed mind control victims from the prize, going into the Bioethics Commission hearing two days from today, where many mind control victims will be testifying. There is no such thing as gang stalking; it's an illusion created through brainwashing. MoreAwakeThanYou (talk) 20:54, 16 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. -- Cirt (talk) 05:37, 20 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Bernie Records

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No indication of notability, importance; no sources; no bands signed to the label with articles Starcheerspeaksnewslostwars (talk) 15:31, 9 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Delete The article says "record company created around 1995" even the date is not certain. No notability of the record shown.-- CrossTempleJay talk 19:11, 9 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

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Keep. I'll have to guess that no one has actually done a proper search on this record label. Sometimes dates are debatable. Just 'cause there is no wiki article does not mean this article is also not notable. A more proper name for the article would be Disques Bernie. The record label has released several albums per Library and Archives Canada: [16], [17], [18], [19], [20], [21], [22] (not all releases listed). A search of the yankee WorldCat database (as Disques Bernie) yeilds: [23], [24]. The artilce needs TLC not deletion. Argolin (talk) 04:51, 16 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

So this record company released a number of non-notable albums. What makes this company notable? --Starcheerspeaksnewslostwars (talk) 05:10, 17 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete Widely ignored by reliable sources. Chester Markel (talk) 05:10, 18 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was redirect to List of Playboy Playmates of 1987. Courcelles 00:20, 18 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Pamela Stein

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Being a Playboy playmate does not make you notable. Being chosen Playmate of the Month or Playmate of the Year is not an award: It's a strategic commercial decision made by Playboy Corporation about how to better commercialize it products. Regardless of how much some Wikipedians love Playmates, we should write articles about them only when they were covered by independent third part sources. Also, texts solely related to their playmatehood are not the kind non-trivial coverage asked by the general notability criteria. Damiens.rf 01:24, 28 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Redirect to List of Playboy Playmates of 1987. Does not appear to be enough nontrivial reliably sourced content to justify an independent article. This has been the outcome of most recent AFD discussions for less prominent Playmates as well the way most recently named Playmates have been handled. Hullaballoo Wolfowitz (talk) 02:04, 28 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Redirect as per Hullaballoo Hasteur (talk) 14:55, 28 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Delete This should have been done after consensus determined Playmate-hood's non-notability. Other projects can cover this material, Wikipedia consensus has determined that Wikipedia is not that project. Should sourcing and claim of notability sufficient for Wikipedia later be found, the article can be re-started. Do NOT redirect. Redirecting non-notable articles to Listings of a subject which has been found to be non-notable is absurd. Playmate-hood, being inherently non-notable, does not prop up this article, nor can it prop up a List of playmates. Redirecting to non-notable lists only makes work for Admins who will have to delete these redirects later. Also, significantly, this is an inadequately-sourced BLP in a controversial area. Dekkappai (talk) 19:34, 28 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

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Procedural Keep - The use of automated tools for mass deletions should not be allowed against large blocks of articles which have already been patrolled at New Pages. It is, simply put, a violation of WP:BEFORE — due diligence is not being done when these tools are being used in this way. "Shoot them all and let the saps at AfD sort them out," is apparently the line of thinking. While I am personally sympathetic to the idea of a very high bar for so-called "Porn Bios," this blasting of 100 articles at the rate of 1 per minute, judging from the time logs, is not conducive to the spirit or practice of AfD. It is putting WP:I DON'T LIKE IT ahead of the established article deletion process and is disrespectful both to the work of article creators and those of us who volunteer our time at AfD. We have seen similar automated mass annihilation efforts recently against modern Trotskyist political organizations and against fraternities and sororities. The net result of these efforts was a lot of lost time by article creators and AfD participants and a lot of lost information from those articles annihilated as part of these campaigns. Meanwhile, the backlog of crap at New Pages festers. Something needs to be done about this problem. Mine is not a unique view — see Wikipedia:ANI#Massive_number_of_Playboy-related_AFD_nominations_by_a_single_user at ANI. We need to keep them all as a matter of principle and ban the future use of automated tools in this way. This argument will be copied-and-pasted in the debate sections for all automated AfDs of this campaign. Carrite (talk) 14:23, 4 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Keep - this was the lady whose centerfold appeared in the film Die Hard.--Toddy1 (talk) 10:48, 6 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- Any more trivia about her? --Damiens.rf 16:08, 9 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so a clearer consensus may be reached.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Xymmax ^{So let it be written} _{So let it be done} 00:45, 9 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so a clearer consensus may be reached.
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redirect/merge to the appropriate list. Assuming that she doesn't meet the WP:GNG that is. As a former playboy playmate, her name is a plausible search term, and having a redlink for such an obviously plausible search term is unacceptable. Umbralcorax (talk) 22:37, 9 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

merge/redirect no evidence of multiple reliable sources with significant coverage beyond X is a Y that was Z. In this case "she was a woman that was a playboy bunny." And to carrite: I agree that mass deletions are troubling however that points to the need for a mass deletion policy, we need not keep all the bathwater only for fear of throwing out a baby, we can look at the article and make a reasoned decision. HominidMachinae (talk) 02:22, 10 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Procedural Keep This nomination was made in violation of a still active topic ban [25]. Monty ₈₄₅ 02:25, 14 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was redirect to List of Playboy Playmates of 1977. Courcelles 00:21, 18 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Nicki Thomas

(Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)

Being a Playboy playmate does not make you notable. Being chosen Playmate of the Month or Playmate of the Year is not an award: It's a strategic commercial decision made by Playboy Corporation about how to better commercialize it products. Regardless of how much some Wikipedians love Playmates, we should write articles about them only when they were covered by independent third part sources. Also, texts solely related to their playmatehood are not the kind non-trivial coverage asked by the general notability criteria. Damiens.rf 01:32, 28 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Redirect to List of Playboy Playmates of 1977. Does not appear to be enough nontrivial reliably sourced content to justify an independent article. This has been the outcome of most recent AFD discussions for less prominent Playmates as well the way most recently named Playmates have been handled. Hullaballoo Wolfowitz (talk) 01:50, 28 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Redirect as per Hullaballoo Hasteur (talk) 14:58, 28 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Delete This should have been done after consensus determined Playmate-hood's non-notability. Other projects can cover this material, Wikipedia consensus has determined that Wikipedia is not that project. Should sourcing and claim of notability sufficient for Wikipedia later be found, the article can be re-started. Do NOT redirect. Redirecting non-notable articles to Listings of a subject which has been found to be non-notable is absurd. Playmate-hood, being inherently non-notable, does not prop up this article, nor can it prop up a List of playmates. Redirecting to non-notable lists only makes work for Admins who will have to delete these redirects later. Also, significantly, this is an inadequately-sourced BLP in a controversial area. Dekkappai (talk) 19:33, 28 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

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Note: This debate has been included in the list of People-related deletion discussions. —• Gene93k (talk) 22:49, 28 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Procedural Keep - The use of automated tools for mass deletions should not be allowed against large blocks of articles which have already been patrolled at New Pages. It is, simply put, a violation of WP:BEFORE — due diligence is not being done when these tools are being used in this way. "Shoot them all and let the saps at AfD sort them out," is apparently the line of thinking. While I am personally sympathetic to the idea of a very high bar for so-called "Porn Bios," this blasting of 100 articles at the rate of 1 per minute, judging from the time logs, is not conducive to the spirit or practice of AfD. It is putting WP:I DON'T LIKE IT ahead of the established article deletion process and is disrespectful both to the work of article creators and those of us who volunteer our time at AfD. We have seen similar automated mass annihilation efforts recently against modern Trotskyist political organizations and against fraternities and sororities. The net result of these efforts was a lot of lost time by article creators and AfD participants and a lot of lost information from those articles annihilated as part of these campaigns. Meanwhile, the backlog of crap at New Pages festers. Something needs to be done about this problem. Mine is not a unique view — see Wikipedia:ANI#Massive_number_of_Playboy-related_AFD_nominations_by_a_single_user at ANI. We need to keep them all as a matter of principle and ban the future use of automated tools in this way. This argument will be copied-and-pasted in the debate sections for all automated AfDs of this campaign. Carrite (talk) 14:19, 4 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Keep per Carrite.--Milowent • ^talkblp-r 02:49, 5 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so a clearer consensus may be reached.
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Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so a clearer consensus may be reached.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Wizardman _{Operation Big Bear} 15:10, 9 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

redirect/merge to the appropriate list. Assuming that she doesn't meet the WP:GNG that is. As a former playboy playmate, her name is a plausible search term, and having a redlink for such an obviously plausible search term is unacceptable. Umbralcorax (talk) 22:37, 9 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]
redirect/merge to the appropriate list. Not enough coverage in reliable sources for a biography. Off2riorob (talk) 22:34, 10 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Procedural Keep Nomination was made in violation of a still active topic ban [26]. Monty ₈₄₅ 03:16, 14 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was redirect to List of Playboy Playmates of 1989. Courcelles 00:22, 18 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Petra Verkaik

(Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)

Being a Playboy playmate does not make you notable. Being chosen Playmate of the Month or Playmate of the Year is not an award: It's a strategic commercial decision made by Playboy Corporation about how to better commercialize it products. Regardless of how much some Wikipedians love Playmates, we should write articles about them only when they were covered by independent third part sources. Also, texts solely related to their playmatehood are not the kind non-trivial coverage asked by the general notability criteria. Damiens.rf 01:44, 28 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Redirect to List of Playboy Playmates of 1989. Does not appear to be enough nontrivial reliably sourced content to justify an independent article. This has been the outcome of most recent AFD discussions for less prominent Playmates as well the way most recently named Playmates have been handled. Hullaballoo Wolfowitz (talk) 03:26, 28 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Redirect per Hullaballoo. --John (talk) 03:28, 28 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Redirect Not enough coverage to require an individual article. Epbr123 (talk) 10:56, 28 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Redirect as per Hullaballoo Hasteur (talk) 15:20, 28 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Delete This should have been done after consensus determined Playmate-hood's non-notability. Other projects can cover this material, Wikipedia consensus has determined that Wikipedia is not that project. Should sourcing and claim of notability sufficient for Wikipedia later be found, the article can be re-started. Do NOT redirect. Redirecting non-notable articles to Listings of a subject which has been found to be non-notable is absurd. Playmate-hood, being inherently non-notable, does not prop up this article, nor can it prop up a List of playmates. Redirecting to non-notable lists only makes work for Admins who will have to delete these redirects later. Also, significantly, this is an inadequately-sourced BLP in a controversial area. Dekkappai (talk) 19:32, 28 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been added to the WikiProject Pornography list of deletions. • Gene93k (talk) 22:49, 28 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of People-related deletion discussions. —• Gene93k (talk) 22:49, 28 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Procedural Keep - The use of automated tools for mass deletions should not be allowed against large blocks of articles which have already been patrolled at New Pages. It is, simply put, a violation of WP:BEFORE — due diligence is not being done when these tools are being used in this way. "Shoot them all and let the saps at AfD sort them out," is apparently the line of thinking. While I am personally sympathetic to the idea of a very high bar for so-called "Porn Bios," this blasting of 100 articles at the rate of 1 per minute, judging from the time logs, is not conducive to the spirit or practice of AfD. It is putting WP:I DON'T LIKE IT ahead of the established article deletion process and is disrespectful both to the work of article creators and those of us who volunteer our time at AfD. We have seen similar automated mass annihilation efforts recently against modern Trotskyist political organizations and against fraternities and sororities. The net result of these efforts was a lot of lost time by article creators and AfD participants and a lot of lost information from those articles annihilated as part of these campaigns. Meanwhile, the backlog of crap at New Pages festers. Something needs to be done about this problem. Mine is not a unique view — see Wikipedia:ANI#Massive_number_of_Playboy-related_AFD_nominations_by_a_single_user at ANI. We need to keep them all as a matter of principle and ban the future use of automated tools in this way. This argument will be copied-and-pasted in the debate sections for all automated AfDs of this campaign. Carrite (talk) 14:17, 4 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Delete per Dekkapai. Not notable as a Playmate, and not enough significant coverage in reliable sources to justify an article. I would be opposed to redirecting/merging to a list. Robofish (talk) 20:09, 5 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Keep: Has sufficient coverage beyond playmatehood. See cites about recent study I just added that showed she is one of the top 10 most searched playmates on the internet (at #5).--Milowent • ^talkblp-r 13:45, 9 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- She's mentioned on passage, together with other playmates, in an article about her playmatehood. --Damiens.rf 14:18, 9 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so a clearer consensus may be reached.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Wizardman _{Operation Big Bear} 15:09, 9 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

redirect/merge to the appropriate list. Assuming that she doesn't meet the WP:GNG that is. As a former playboy playmate, her name is a plausible search term, and having a redlink for such an obviously plausible search term is unacceptable. Umbralcorax (talk) 22:37, 9 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Procedural Keep This nomination was made in violation of a still active topic ban [27]. Monty ₈₄₅ 02:27, 14 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was redirect to List of Playboy Playmates of 1999. Courcelles 00:23, 18 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Cara Wakelin

(Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)

Being a Playboy playmate does not make you notable. Being chosen Playmate of the Month or Playmate of the Year is not an award: It's a strategic commercial decision made by Playboy Corporation about how to better commercialize it products. Regardless of how much some Wikipedians love Playmates, we should write articles about them only when they were covered by independent third part sources. Also, texts solely related to their playmatehood are not the kind non-trivial coverage asked by the general notability criteria. Damiens.rf 01:51, 28 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Redirect to List of Playboy Playmates of 1999. Does not appear to be enough nontrivial reliably sourced content to justify an independent article. This has been the outcome of most recent AFD discussions for less prominent Playmates as well the way most recently named Playmates have been handled. Hullaballoo Wolfowitz (talk) 03:19, 28 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Redirect to List of Playboy Playmates of 1999. Has some coverage, but not enough for an individual article. Epbr123 (talk) 10:45, 28 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Redirect as per Hullaballoo Hasteur (talk) 15:21, 28 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Delete This should have been done after consensus determined Playmate-hood's non-notability. Other projects can cover this material, Wikipedia consensus has determined that Wikipedia is not that project. Should sourcing and claim of notability sufficient for Wikipedia later be found, the article can be re-started. Do NOT redirect. Redirecting non-notable articles to Listings of a subject which has been found to be non-notable is absurd. Playmate-hood, being inherently non-notable, does not prop up this article, nor can it prop up a List of playmates. Redirecting to non-notable lists only makes work for Admins who will have to delete these redirects later. Also, significantly, this is an inadequately-sourced BLP in a controversial area. Dekkappai (talk) 19:31, 28 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been added to the WikiProject Pornography list of deletions. • Gene93k (talk) 22:49, 28 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of People-related deletion discussions. —• Gene93k (talk) 22:49, 28 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Actors and filmmakers-related deletion discussions. -- • Gene93k (talk) 20:40, 29 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Procedural Keep - The use of automated tools for mass deletions should not be allowed against large blocks of articles which have already been patrolled at New Pages. It is, simply put, a violation of WP:BEFORE — due diligence is not being done when these tools are being used in this way. "Shoot them all and let the saps at AfD sort them out," is apparently the line of thinking. While I am personally sympathetic to the idea of a very high bar for so-called "Porn Bios," this blasting of 100 articles at the rate of 1 per minute, judging from the time logs, is not conducive to the spirit or practice of AfD. It is putting WP:I DON'T LIKE IT ahead of the established article deletion process and is disrespectful both to the work of article creators and those of us who volunteer our time at AfD. We have seen similar automated mass annihilation efforts recently against modern Trotskyist political organizations and against fraternities and sororities. The net result of these efforts was a lot of lost time by article creators and AfD participants and a lot of lost information from those articles annihilated as part of these campaigns. Meanwhile, the backlog of crap at New Pages festers. Something needs to be done about this problem. Mine is not a unique view — see Wikipedia:ANI#Massive_number_of_Playboy-related_AFD_nominations_by_a_single_user at ANI. We need to keep them all as a matter of principle and ban the future use of automated tools in this way. This argument will be copied-and-pasted in the debate sections for all automated AfDs of this campaign. Carrite (talk) 14:15, 4 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so a clearer consensus may be reached.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Wizardman _{Operation Big Bear} 15:09, 9 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

redirect/merge to the appropriate list. Assuming that she doesn't meet the WP:GNG that is. As a former playboy playmate, her name is a plausible search term, and having a redlink for such an obviously plausible search term is unacceptable. Umbralcorax (talk) 22:37, 9 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Procedural Keep Nomination was made in violation of a still active topic ban [28]. Monty ₈₄₅ 03:17, 14 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was redirect to List of Playboy Playmates of 1980. Courcelles 00:24, 18 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Lisa Welch

AfDs for this article:

(Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)

Being a Playboy playmate does not make you notable. Being chosen Playmate of the Month or Playmate of the Year is not an award: It's a strategic commercial decision made by Playboy Corporation about how to better commercialize it products. Regardless of how much some Wikipedians love Playmates, we should write articles about them only when they were covered by independent third part sources. Also, texts solely related to their playmatehood are not the kind non-trivial coverage asked by the general notability criteria. Damiens.rf 01:58, 28 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Redirect to List of Playboy Playmates of 1980. Does not appear to be enough nontrivial reliably sourced content to justify an independent article. This has been the outcome of most recent AFD discussions for less prominent Playmates as well the way most recently named Playmates have been handled. Hullaballoo Wolfowitz (talk) 03:15, 28 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Redirect No significant coverage found. Epbr123 (talk) 11:03, 28 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Redirect as per Hullaballoo Hasteur (talk) 15:23, 28 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Delete This should have been done after consensus determined Playmate-hood's non-notability. Other projects can cover this material, Wikipedia consensus has determined that Wikipedia is not that project. Should sourcing and claim of notability sufficient for Wikipedia later be found, the article can be re-started. Do NOT redirect. Redirecting non-notable articles to Listings of a subject which has been found to be non-notable is absurd. Playmate-hood, being inherently non-notable, does not prop up this article, nor can it prop up a List of playmates. Redirecting to non-notable lists only makes work for Admins who will have to delete these redirects later. Also, significantly, this is an inadequately-sourced BLP in a controversial area. Dekkappai (talk) 19:31, 28 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been added to the WikiProject Pornography list of deletions. • Gene93k (talk) 22:49, 28 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of People-related deletion discussions. —• Gene93k (talk) 22:49, 28 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Actors and filmmakers-related deletion discussions. -- • Gene93k (talk) 20:41, 29 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Procedural Keep - The use of automated tools for mass deletions should not be allowed against large blocks of articles which have already been patrolled at New Pages. It is, simply put, a violation of WP:BEFORE — due diligence is not being done when these tools are being used in this way. "Shoot them all and let the saps at AfD sort them out," is apparently the line of thinking. While I am personally sympathetic to the idea of a very high bar for so-called "Porn Bios," this blasting of 100 articles at the rate of 1 per minute, judging from the time logs, is not conducive to the spirit or practice of AfD. It is putting WP:I DON'T LIKE IT ahead of the established article deletion process and is disrespectful both to the work of article creators and those of us who volunteer our time at AfD. We have seen similar automated mass annihilation efforts recently against modern Trotskyist political organizations and against fraternities and sororities. The net result of these efforts was a lot of lost time by article creators and AfD participants and a lot of lost information from those articles annihilated as part of these campaigns. Meanwhile, the backlog of crap at New Pages festers. Something needs to be done about this problem. Mine is not a unique view — see Wikipedia:ANI#Massive_number_of_Playboy-related_AFD_nominations_by_a_single_user at ANI. We need to keep them all as a matter of principle and ban the future use of automated tools in this way. This argument will be copied-and-pasted in the debate sections for all automated AfDs of this campaign. Carrite (talk) 14:14, 4 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Keep: Per comments at first AfD, mainstream appearances are sufficient to cross notability threshold applying apparently current "standards" for playmate articles.--Milowent • ^talkblp-r 13:29, 9 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- First afd was no consensus and all keep votes were assuming she had enough of a career as an actress, which, unless I'm missing something, she doesn't. --Damiens.rf 14:14, 9 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

In your opinion, of course, as someone who has nominated a slew of playmate articles for deletion and a bunch of them have been kept.--Milowent • ^talkblp-r 16:36, 9 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so a clearer consensus may be reached.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Wizardman _{Operation Big Bear} 15:08, 9 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

redirect/merge to the appropriate list. Assuming that she doesn't meet the WP:GNG that is. As a former playboy playmate, her name is a plausible search term, and having a redlink for such an obviously plausible search term is unacceptable. Umbralcorax (talk) 22:37, 9 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Procedural Keep This nomination was made in violation of a still active topic ban [29]. Monty ₈₄₅ 02:28, 14 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

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The result was redirect to List of Playboy Playmates of 1998. Courcelles 00:29, 18 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Kimber West

(Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)

Being a Playboy playmate does not make you notable. Being chosen Playmate of the Month or Playmate of the Year is not an award: It's a strategic commercial decision made by Playboy Corporation about how to better commercialize it products. Regardless of how much some Wikipedians love Playmates, we should write articles about them only when they were covered by independent third part sources. Also, texts solely related to their playmatehood are not the kind non-trivial coverage asked by the general notability criteria. Damiens.rf 01:59, 28 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Redirect to List of Playboy Playmates of 1998. Does not appear to be enough nontrivial reliably sourced content to justify an independent article. This has been the outcome of most recent AFD discussions for less prominent Playmates as well the way most recently named Playmates have been handled. Hullaballoo Wolfowitz (talk) 03:14, 28 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Redirect No significant coverage found. Epbr123 (talk) 11:06, 28 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Redirect as per Hullaballoo Hasteur (talk) 15:23, 28 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Delete This should have been done after consensus determined Playmate-hood's non-notability. Other projects can cover this material, Wikipedia consensus has determined that Wikipedia is not that project. Should sourcing and claim of notability sufficient for Wikipedia later be found, the article can be re-started. Do NOT redirect. Redirecting non-notable articles to Listings of a subject which has been found to be non-notable is absurd. Playmate-hood, being inherently non-notable, does not prop up this article, nor can it prop up a List of playmates. Redirecting to non-notable lists only makes work for Admins who will have to delete these redirects later. Also, significantly, this is an inadequately-sourced BLP in a controversial area. Dekkappai (talk) 19:30, 28 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been added to the WikiProject Pornography list of deletions. • Gene93k (talk) 22:49, 28 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of People-related deletion discussions. —• Gene93k (talk) 22:49, 28 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Keep - Two articles about her eight years apart. [30] about her playmatehood. [31] about her and her boutique (although you would have to see behind the paywall). Morbidthoughts (talk) 22:08, 3 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Procedural Keep - The use of automated tools for mass deletions should not be allowed against large blocks of articles which have already been patrolled at New Pages. It is, simply put, a violation of WP:BEFORE — due diligence is not being done when these tools are being used in this way. "Shoot them all and let the saps at AfD sort them out," is apparently the line of thinking. While I am personally sympathetic to the idea of a very high bar for so-called "Porn Bios," this blasting of 100 articles at the rate of 1 per minute, judging from the time logs, is not conducive to the spirit or practice of AfD. It is putting WP:I DON'T LIKE IT ahead of the established article deletion process and is disrespectful both to the work of article creators and those of us who volunteer our time at AfD. We have seen similar automated mass annihilation efforts recently against modern Trotskyist political organizations and against fraternities and sororities. The net result of these efforts was a lot of lost time by article creators and AfD participants and a lot of lost information from those articles annihilated as part of these campaigns. Meanwhile, the backlog of crap at New Pages festers. Something needs to be done about this problem. Mine is not a unique view — see Wikipedia:ANI#Massive_number_of_Playboy-related_AFD_nominations_by_a_single_user at ANI. We need to keep them all as a matter of principle and ban the future use of automated tools in this way. This argument will be copied-and-pasted in the debate sections for all automated AfDs of this campaign. Carrite (talk) 14:14, 4 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so a clearer consensus may be reached.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Wizardman _{Operation Big Bear} 15:07, 9 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

redirect/merge to the appropriate list. Assuming that she doesn't meet the WP:GNG that is. As a former playboy playmate, her name is a plausible search term, and having a redlink for such an obviously plausible search term is unacceptable. Umbralcorax (talk) 22:37, 9 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Procedural Keep Nomination was made in violation of a still active topic ban [32]. Monty ₈₄₅ 03:17, 14 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was keep. Procedural keep because the nomination and subsequent discussion is tainted by the noms topic ban. can be immediately relisted. Spartaz ^Humbug! 14:11, 18 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Carrie Westcott

(Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)

Being a Playboy playmate does not make you notable. Being chosen Playmate of the Month or Playmate of the Year is not an award: It's a strategic commercial decision made by Playboy Corporation about how to better commercialize it products. Regardless of how much some Wikipedians love Playmates, we should write articles about them only when they were covered by independent third part sources. Also, texts solely related to their playmatehood are not the kind non-trivial coverage asked by the general notability criteria. Damiens.rf 01:59, 28 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Redirect to List of Playboy Playmates of 1993. Does not appear to be enough nontrivial reliably sourced content to justify an independent article. This has been the outcome of most recent AFD discussions for less prominent Playmates as well the way most recently named Playmates have been handled. Hullaballoo Wolfowitz (talk) 03:13, 28 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Redirect Not enough coverage to require an individual article. Epbr123 (talk) 11:05, 28 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Redirect as per Hullaballoo Hasteur (talk) 15:24, 28 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Delete This should have been done after consensus determined Playmate-hood's non-notability. Other projects can cover this material, Wikipedia consensus has determined that Wikipedia is not that project. Should sourcing and claim of notability sufficient for Wikipedia later be found, the article can be re-started. Do NOT redirect. Redirecting non-notable articles to Listings of a subject which has been found to be non-notable is absurd. Playmate-hood, being inherently non-notable, does not prop up this article, nor can it prop up a List of playmates. Redirecting to non-notable lists only makes work for Admins who will have to delete these redirects later. Also, significantly, this is an inadequately-sourced BLP in a controversial area. Dekkappai (talk) 19:30, 28 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been added to the WikiProject Pornography list of deletions. • Gene93k (talk) 22:49, 28 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of People-related deletion discussions. —• Gene93k (talk) 22:49, 28 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Actors and filmmakers-related deletion discussions. -- • Gene93k (talk) 20:42, 29 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Redirect - Despite ironic non-hometown article[33], that's the extent of the what seems like non-trivial coverage and it's behind a paywall so I can't gauge its depth.

Procedural Keep - The use of automated tools for mass deletions should not be allowed against large blocks of articles which have already been patrolled at New Pages. It is, simply put, a violation of WP:BEFORE — due diligence is not being done when these tools are being used in this way. "Shoot them all and let the saps at AfD sort them out," is apparently the line of thinking. While I am personally sympathetic to the idea of a very high bar for so-called "Porn Bios," this blasting of 100 articles at the rate of 1 per minute, judging from the time logs, is not conducive to the spirit or practice of AfD. It is putting WP:I DON'T LIKE IT ahead of the established article deletion process and is disrespectful both to the work of article creators and those of us who volunteer our time at AfD. We have seen similar automated mass annihilation efforts recently against modern Trotskyist political organizations and against fraternities and sororities. The net result of these efforts was a lot of lost time by article creators and AfD participants and a lot of lost information from those articles annihilated as part of these campaigns. Meanwhile, the backlog of crap at New Pages festers. Something needs to be done about this problem. Mine is not a unique view — see Wikipedia:ANI#Massive_number_of_Playboy-related_AFD_nominations_by_a_single_user at ANI. We need to keep them all as a matter of principle and ban the future use of automated tools in this way. This argument will be copied-and-pasted in the debate sections for all automated AfDs of this campaign. Carrite (talk) 14:14, 4 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Keep: Unlike some of the recently redirected playmate articles, this one does seem to have more coverage out there. (Including hosting a show on MTV, see billboard ref added to article to confirm it, and B-movie starring roles, see NY times ref added to article.)--Milowent • ^talkblp-r 13:18, 9 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so a clearer consensus may be reached.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Wizardman _{Operation Big Bear} 15:06, 9 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

redirect/merge to the appropriate list. Assuming that she doesn't meet the WP:GNG that is. As a former playboy playmate, her name is a plausible search term, and having a redlink for such an obviously plausible search term is unacceptable. Umbralcorax (talk) 22:37, 9 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Procedural Keep Nomination was made in violation of a still active topic ban [34]. Monty ₈₄₅ 03:17, 14 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

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The result was redirect to List of Playboy Playmates of 1989. Courcelles 00:29, 18 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Laurie Wood

(Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)

Being a Playboy playmate does not make you notable. Being chosen Playmate of the Month or Playmate of the Year is not an award: It's a strategic commercial decision made by Playboy Corporation about how to better commercialize it products. Regardless of how much some Wikipedians love Playmates, we should write articles about them only when they were covered by independent third part sources. Also, texts solely related to their playmatehood are not the kind non-trivial coverage asked by the general notability criteria. Damiens.rf 02:08, 28 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Redirect to List of Playboy Playmates of 1989. Does not appear to be enough nontrivial reliably sourced content to justify an independent article. This has been the outcome of most recent AFD discussions for less prominent Playmates as well the way most recently named Playmates have been handled. Hullaballoo Wolfowitz (talk) 03:01, 28 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Redirect as per Hullaballoo Hasteur (talk) 15:25, 28 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Delete This should have been done after consensus determined Playmate-hood's non-notability. Other projects can cover this material, Wikipedia consensus has determined that Wikipedia is not that project. Should sourcing and claim of notability sufficient for Wikipedia later be found, the article can be re-started. Do NOT redirect. Redirecting non-notable articles to Listings of a subject which has been found to be non-notable is absurd. Playmate-hood, being inherently non-notable, does not prop up this article, nor can it prop up a List of playmates. Redirecting to non-notable lists only makes work for Admins who will have to delete these redirects later. Also, significantly, this is an inadequately-sourced BLP in a controversial area. Dekkappai (talk) 19:30, 28 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been added to the WikiProject Pornography list of deletions. • Gene93k (talk) 22:49, 28 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of People-related deletion discussions. —• Gene93k (talk) 22:49, 28 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Actors and filmmakers-related deletion discussions. -- • Gene93k (talk) 20:43, 29 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Redirect - What seems like the only significant coverage is behind a paywall. [35] Morbidthoughts (talk) 21:54, 3 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Procedural Keep - The use of automated tools for mass deletions should not be allowed against large blocks of articles which have already been patrolled at New Pages. It is, simply put, a violation of WP:BEFORE — due diligence is not being done when these tools are being used in this way. "Shoot them all and let the saps at AfD sort them out," is apparently the line of thinking. While I am personally sympathetic to the idea of a very high bar for so-called "Porn Bios," this blasting of 100 articles at the rate of 1 per minute, judging from the time logs, is not conducive to the spirit or practice of AfD. It is putting WP:I DON'T LIKE IT ahead of the established article deletion process and is disrespectful both to the work of article creators and those of us who volunteer our time at AfD. We have seen similar automated mass annihilation efforts recently against modern Trotskyist political organizations and against fraternities and sororities. The net result of these efforts was a lot of lost time by article creators and AfD participants and a lot of lost information from those articles annihilated as part of these campaigns. Meanwhile, the backlog of crap at New Pages festers. Something needs to be done about this problem. Mine is not a unique view — see Wikipedia:ANI#Massive_number_of_Playboy-related_AFD_nominations_by_a_single_user at ANI. We need to keep them all as a matter of principle and ban the future use of automated tools in this way. This argument will be copied-and-pasted in the debate sections for all automated AfDs of this campaign. Carrite (talk) 14:12, 4 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so a clearer consensus may be reached.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Wizardman _{Operation Big Bear} 15:06, 9 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

redirect/merge to the appropriate list. Assuming that she doesn't meet the WP:GNG that is. As a former playboy playmate, her name is a plausible search term, and having a redlink for such an obviously plausible search term is unacceptable. Umbralcorax (talk) 22:37, 9 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Procedural Keep Nomination was made in violation of a still active topic ban [36]. Monty ₈₄₅ 03:18, 14 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was redirect to List of Playboy Playmates of 1993. Courcelles 00:29, 18 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Nicole Wood

(Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)

Being a Playboy playmate does not make you notable. Being chosen Playmate of the Month or Playmate of the Year is not an award: It's a strategic commercial decision made by Playboy Corporation about how to better commercialize it products. Regardless of how much some Wikipedians love Playmates, we should write articles about them only when they were covered by independent third part sources. Also, texts solely related to their playmatehood are not the kind non-trivial coverage asked by the general notability criteria. Damiens.rf 02:08, 28 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Redirect to List of Playboy Playmates of 1993. Does not appear to be enough nontrivial reliably sourced content to justify an independent article. This has been the outcome of most recent AFD discussions for less prominent Playmates as well the way most recently named Playmates have been handled. Hullaballoo Wolfowitz (talk) 03:00, 28 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Redirect as per Hullaballoo Hasteur (talk) 15:26, 28 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Delete This should have been done after consensus determined Playmate-hood's non-notability. Other projects can cover this material, Wikipedia consensus has determined that Wikipedia is not that project. Should sourcing and claim of notability sufficient for Wikipedia later be found, the article can be re-started. Do NOT redirect. Redirecting non-notable articles to Listings of a subject which has been found to be non-notable is absurd. Playmate-hood, being inherently non-notable, does not prop up this article, nor can it prop up a List of playmates. Redirecting to non-notable lists only makes work for Admins who will have to delete these redirects later. Also, significantly, this is an inadequately-sourced BLP in a controversial area. Dekkappai (talk) 19:30, 28 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been added to the WikiProject Pornography list of deletions. • Gene93k (talk) 22:49, 28 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of People-related deletion discussions. —• Gene93k (talk) 22:49, 28 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Procedural Keep - The use of automated tools for mass deletions should not be allowed against large blocks of articles which have already been patrolled at New Pages. It is, simply put, a violation of WP:BEFORE — due diligence is not being done when these tools are being used in this way. "Shoot them all and let the saps at AfD sort them out," is apparently the line of thinking. While I am personally sympathetic to the idea of a very high bar for so-called "Porn Bios," this blasting of 100 articles at the rate of 1 per minute, judging from the time logs, is not conducive to the spirit or practice of AfD. It is putting WP:I DON'T LIKE IT ahead of the established article deletion process and is disrespectful both to the work of article creators and those of us who volunteer our time at AfD. We have seen similar automated mass annihilation efforts recently against modern Trotskyist political organizations and against fraternities and sororities. The net result of these efforts was a lot of lost time by article creators and AfD participants and a lot of lost information from those articles annihilated as part of these campaigns. Meanwhile, the backlog of crap at New Pages festers. Something needs to be done about this problem. Mine is not a unique view — see Wikipedia:ANI#Massive_number_of_Playboy-related_AFD_nominations_by_a_single_user at ANI. We need to keep them all as a matter of principle and ban the future use of automated tools in this way. This argument will be copied-and-pasted in the debate sections for all automated AfDs of this campaign. Carrite (talk) 14:12, 4 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so a clearer consensus may be reached.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Wizardman _{Operation Big Bear} 15:05, 9 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

redirect/merge to the appropriate list. Assuming that she doesn't meet the WP:GNG that is. As a former playboy playmate, her name is a plausible search term, and having a redlink for such an obviously plausible search term is unacceptable. Umbralcorax (talk) 22:37, 9 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Procedural Keep Nomination was made in violation of a still active topic ban [37]. Monty ₈₄₅ 03:18, 14 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

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The result was redirect to List of Playboy Playmates of 1987. Courcelles 00:30, 18 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Sandy Greenberg

(Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)

Being a Playboy playmate does not make you notable. Being chosen Playmate of the Month or Playmate of the Year is not an award: It's a strategic commercial decision made by Playboy Corporation about how to better commercialize it products. Regardless of how much some Wikipedians love Playmates, we should write articles about them only when they were covered by independent third part sources. Also, texts solely related to their playmatehood are not the kind non-trivial coverage asked by the general notability guideline. Damiens.rf 02:31, 28 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Redirect to List of Playboy Playmates of 1987. Does not appear to be enough nontrivial reliably sourced content to justify an independent article. This has been the outcome of most recent AFD discussions for less prominent Playmates as well the way most recently named Playmates have been handled. Hullaballoo Wolfowitz (talk) 17:49, 28 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Delete This should have been done after consensus determined Playmate-hood's non-notability. Other projects can cover this material, Wikipedia consensus has determined that Wikipedia is not that project. Should sourcing and claim of notability sufficient for Wikipedia later be found, the article can be re-started. Do NOT redirect. Redirecting non-notable articles to Listings of a subject which has been found to be non-notable is absurd. Playmate-hood, being inherently non-notable, does not prop up this article, nor can it prop up a List of playmates. Redirecting to non-notable lists only makes work for Admins who will have to delete these redirects later. Also, significantly, this is an inadequately-sourced BLP in a controversial area. Dekkappai (talk) 19:27, 28 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been added to the WikiProject Pornography list of deletions. • Gene93k (talk) 22:49, 28 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of People-related deletion discussions. —• Gene93k (talk) 22:49, 28 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Actors and filmmakers-related deletion discussions. -- • Gene93k (talk) 20:48, 29 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Procedural Keep - The use of automated tools for mass deletions should not be allowed against large blocks of articles which have already been patrolled at New Pages. It is, simply put, a violation of WP:BEFORE — due diligence is not being done when these tools are being used in this way. "Shoot them all and let the saps at AfD sort them out," is apparently the line of thinking. While I am personally sympathetic to the idea of a very high bar for so-called "Porn Bios," this blasting of 100 articles at the rate of 1 per minute, judging from the time logs, is not conducive to the spirit or practice of AfD. It is putting WP:I DON'T LIKE IT ahead of the established article deletion process and is disrespectful both to the work of article creators and those of us who volunteer our time at AfD. We have seen similar automated mass annihilation efforts recently against modern Trotskyist political organizations and against fraternities and sororities. The net result of these efforts was a lot of lost time by article creators and AfD participants and a lot of lost information from those articles annihilated as part of these campaigns. Meanwhile, the backlog of crap at New Pages festers. Something needs to be done about this problem. Mine is not a unique view — see Wikipedia:ANI#Massive_number_of_Playboy-related_AFD_nominations_by_a_single_user at ANI. We need to keep them all as a matter of principle and ban the future use of automated tools in this way. This argument will be copied-and-pasted in the debate sections for all automated AfDs of this campaign. Carrite (talk) 14:05, 4 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so a clearer consensus may be reached.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Wizardman _{Operation Big Bear} 15:04, 9 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

redirect/merge to the appropriate list. Assuming that she doesn't meet the WP:GNG that is. As a former playboy playmate, her name is a plausible search term, and having a redlink for such an obviously plausible search term is unacceptable. Umbralcorax (talk) 22:37, 9 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Procedural Keep Nomination was made in violation of a still active topic ban [38]. Monty ₈₄₅ 03:18, 14 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

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The result was keep. Procedural keep because the nomination and subsequent discussion is tainted by the noms topic ban. can be immediately relisted. Spartaz ^Humbug! 14:11, 18 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Jaime Hammer

(Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)

Being a Playboy playmate does not make you notable. Being chosen Playmate of the Month or Playmate of the Year is not an award: It's a strategic commercial decision made by Playboy Corporation about how to better commercialize it products. Regardless of how much some Wikipedians love Playmates, we should write articles about them only when they were covered by independent third part sources. Also, texts solely related to their playmatehood are not the kind non-trivial coverage asked by the general notability guideline. Damiens.rf 02:33, 28 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Weak Delete She was never actually Playboy Playmate of the Month, which is about where I draw the line. She earned many recognitions that are a slight cut below. Hard to give any other credible reason for a keep.--TonyTheTiger (T/C/BIO/WP:CHICAGO/WP:FOUR) 04:49, 28 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Keep - An in depth profile from the Phoenix New Times [39] in addition to numerous other coverage in reliable sources leaves no question as to her notability. BelloWello (talk) 05:03, 28 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- An Arizona newspaper interviewed the Arizona playmate by the time she appeared on Playboy's cover. We can safely expect this to happen to almost every playmate. This is the kind of playmatehood coveragethat I predicted on the nomination.
- Among those numerous other coverage in reliable sources you know, can you show us some of the non-trivial ones? They would justify keeping biography. --Damiens.rf 06:14, 28 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Delete. Not a Playmate, but a Playboy "special editions" model, Penthouse Pet, and not-quite-hardcore-porn(yet) performer who doesn't have any coverage to satisfy WP:PORNBIO, WP:ENT, or the GNG (yet). The "in-depth" profile contains very little non-trivial information about the model, especially compared to the amount of kvetching she does about how little Playboy actually paid her. (It also reports her claim she would never pose for Penthouse, and we can see how accurate that was . . . ) Hullaballoo Wolfowitz (talk) 17:46, 28 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been added to the WikiProject Pornography list of deletions. • Gene93k (talk) 22:49, 28 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of People-related deletion discussions. —• Gene93k (talk) 22:49, 28 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Procedural Keep - The use of automated tools for mass deletions should not be allowed against large blocks of articles which have already been patrolled at New Pages. It is, simply put, a violation of WP:BEFORE — due diligence is not being done when these tools are being used in this way. "Shoot them all and let the saps at AfD sort them out," is apparently the line of thinking. While I am personally sympathetic to the idea of a very high bar for so-called "Porn Bios," this blasting of 100 articles at the rate of 1 per minute, judging from the time logs, is not conducive to the spirit or practice of AfD. It is putting WP:I DON'T LIKE IT ahead of the established article deletion process and is disrespectful both to the work of article creators and those of us who volunteer our time at AfD. We have seen similar automated mass annihilation efforts recently against modern Trotskyist political organizations and against fraternities and sororities. The net result of these efforts was a lot of lost time by article creators and AfD participants and a lot of lost information from those articles annihilated as part of these campaigns. Meanwhile, the backlog of crap at New Pages festers. Something needs to be done about this problem. Mine is not a unique view — see Wikipedia:ANI#Massive_number_of_Playboy-related_AFD_nominations_by_a_single_user at ANI. We need to keep them all as a matter of principle and ban the future use of automated tools in this way. This argument will be copied-and-pasted in the debate sections for all automated AfDs of this campaign. Carrite (talk) 14:04, 4 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so a clearer consensus may be reached.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Wizardman _{Operation Big Bear} 15:04, 9 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

redirect/merge to the appropriate list. Assuming that she doesn't meet the WP:GNG that is. As a former playboy playmate, her name is a plausible search term, and having a redlink for such an obviously plausible search term is unacceptable. Umbralcorax (talk) 22:37, 9 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Procedural Keep Nomination was made in violation of a still active topic ban [40]. Monty ₈₄₅ 03:18, 14 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

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The result was keep. Procedural keep because the nomination and subsequent discussion is tainted by the noms topic ban. can be immediately relisted. Spartaz ^Humbug! 14:11, 18 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Corinna Harney

(Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)

Being a Playboy playmate does not make you notable. Being chosen Playmate of the Month or Playmate of the Year is not an award: It's a strategic commercial decision made by Playboy Corporation about how to better commercialize it products. Regardless of how much some Wikipedians love Playmates, we should write articles about them only when they were covered by independent third part sources. Also, texts solely related to their playmatehood are not the kind non-trivial coverage asked by the general notability guideline. Damiens.rf 02:34, 28 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Keep Between google news hits, and movie appearances already in article, this person is clearly notable. Article needs improvement with additional references, not deletion. Monty₈₄₅ 03:42, 28 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- I may be missing something, but I don't think we can write an article from what I see on her Google News search. Did you find many non-trivial mentions? --Damiens.rf 04:02, 28 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  - Several of those articles appear to be substantive coverage, but they are behind pay-walls. Monty₈₄₅ 04:20, 28 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    - Nomination was made in violation of a still active topic ban [41], so keep for that reason as well. Monty ₈₄₅ 03:19, 14 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Redirect to List of Playboy Playmates of 1991. Does not appear to be enough nontrivial reliably sourced content to justify an independent article. This has been the outcome of most recent AFD discussions for less prominent Playmates as well the way most recently named Playmates have been handled. Hullaballoo Wolfowitz (talk) 17:36, 28 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Delete This should have been done after consensus determined Playmate-hood's non-notability. Other projects can cover this material, Wikipedia consensus has determined that Wikipedia is not that project. Should sourcing and claim of notability sufficient for Wikipedia later be found, the article can be re-started. Do NOT redirect. Redirecting non-notable articles to Listings of a subject which has been found to be non-notable is absurd. Playmate-hood, being inherently non-notable, does not prop up this article, nor can it prop up a List of playmates. Redirecting to non-notable lists only makes work for Admins who will have to delete these redirects later. Also, significantly, this is an inadequately-sourced BLP in a controversial area. Dekkappai (talk) 19:26, 28 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Keep - Playmate of the Year is a well-known award satisfying criteria 1 of WP:PORNBIO. Several mainstream credits including starring role in The Road Home (2003 film) satisfies criteria 4 of PORNBIO. Morbidthoughts (talk) 22:33, 28 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

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Procedural Keep - The use of automated tools for mass deletions should not be allowed against large blocks of articles which have already been patrolled at New Pages. It is, simply put, a violation of WP:BEFORE — due diligence is not being done when these tools are being used in this way. "Shoot them all and let the saps at AfD sort them out," is apparently the line of thinking. While I am personally sympathetic to the idea of a very high bar for so-called "Porn Bios," this blasting of 100 articles at the rate of 1 per minute, judging from the time logs, is not conducive to the spirit or practice of AfD. It is putting WP:I DON'T LIKE IT ahead of the established article deletion process and is disrespectful both to the work of article creators and those of us who volunteer our time at AfD. We have seen similar automated mass annihilation efforts recently against modern Trotskyist political organizations and against fraternities and sororities. The net result of these efforts was a lot of lost time by article creators and AfD participants and a lot of lost information from those articles annihilated as part of these campaigns. Meanwhile, the backlog of crap at New Pages festers. Something needs to be done about this problem. Mine is not a unique view — see Wikipedia:ANI#Massive_number_of_Playboy-related_AFD_nominations_by_a_single_user at ANI. We need to keep them all as a matter of principle and ban the future use of automated tools in this way. This argument will be copied-and-pasted in the debate sections for all automated AfDs of this campaign. Carrite (talk) 14:04, 4 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Delete - lacks the necessary significant coverage in reliable sources to meet our notability standards. TerriersFan (talk) 20:29, 7 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Keep per Morbidthoughts. Playmate of the Year is sufficient for notability. We used to have a bright line rule that all playmates were notable so as to avoid excess wasted time on AfD. Now we enjoy wasting time on these AfDs, but at least we should set the bar here to avoid continued waste of time. None of this content is going to be deleted regardless of where it resides.--Milowent • ^talkblp-r 13:38, 8 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

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redirect/merge to the appropriate list. Assuming that she doesn't meet the WP:GNG that is. As a former playboy playmate, her name is a plausible search term, and having a redlink for such an obviously plausible search term is unacceptable. Umbralcorax (talk) 22:37, 9 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. -- Cirt (talk) 05:27, 17 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

War 2 Victory

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Seems to be a NN game - no assertion of notability. delete' - UtherSRG (talk) 15:02, 9 May 2011 (UTC) UtherSRG (talk) 15:02, 9 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete - scoured the online sources, could only find a light piece at Examiner.com which I can't link to, as it is blacklisted. Marasmusine (talk) 11:35, 10 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was keep. Owen× ☎ 21:13, 16 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

WU LYF

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Multiple issues regarding notability. Some attempts at CSD. Elevating to AFD for discussion. delete - UtherSRG (talk) 14:55, 9 May 2011 (UTC) UtherSRG (talk) 14:55, 9 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

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Keep. With coverage already cited in the article from NME, The Guardian, Rolling Stone, and the BBC, plus these that could be added: [42], [43], [44], [45], and with airplay on BBC Radio 1, what exactly are these 'multiple issues regarding notability'? The band are clearly notable, and the latest attempt at speedy deletion was baffling given the coverage cited in the article at the time.--Michig (talk) 16:43, 9 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Speedy keep - the band has had articles written on them in several reliable sources, including the NME, the Observer, the Guardian (twice) and Rolling Stone. They have received coverage in several countries, including England, France, Holland, Austria and Italy. Their current tour takes them to many different countries, including UK, Australia, Germany, France, Portugal, USA, Japan and Norway. The article was previously deleted using CSD by the nominator and that decision was overturned at DRV here. Robman94 (talk) 17:06, 9 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Speedy Keep. No valid basis for deletion advanced. Article cites an array of reliable sources which in ordinary circumstances would demonstrate notability. There seems to have been an unusually strong push to summarily delete the article on an invalid speedy nom, as well as an unwarranted gutting of the article just prior to the AFD nomination, but neither of those remotely approaches grounds for deletion. Hullaballoo Wolfowitz (talk) 18:37, 9 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Keep - I have to admit I'm usually pretty quick to try to pull the delete-trigger on band articles, but it definitely looks to me like the third party coverage here is enough to establish notability. Kevin (talk) 22:58, 9 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Speedy keep - Given the coverage this band has received in major RS, the article should never have been nominate. Keep per all the above. Beyond My Ken (talk) 01:36, 10 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Keep The reason for this band's notability is their intentional avoidance of all standards for notability. Although this reason may seem like the perfect recipe for allowing bands to subvert our standards of notability, this intentional strategy is documented in a reliable source.[46] -- llywrch (talk) 04:57, 10 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

:*I guess they failed then. Crisco 1492 (talk) 14:45, 15 May 2011 (UTC) [reply]

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Keep. As shown above, notability seems to have been proven extremely well; Rolling Stone, BBC and everything. . . Crisco 1492 (talk) 14:45, 15 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was redirect to High School Musical (film series)#Cast members. Spartaz ^Humbug! 14:15, 18 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Manly "Little Pickles" Ortega

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There are notable animals. This isn't one of them. Unsourced BLD. No reliable sources provided or found. (Previously deleted via prod (I'm counting the recreation as disputing the prod). Speedy categories and BLP prod seem not to apply.) SummerPhD (talk) 14:32, 9 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Delete. Sad to say, this pooch seems to be getting the short end of the stick here. I've added some totally reliable sources to the article, but I think WP:GNG etc. are simply not designed to help dogs in need. *Sigh* Drmies (talk) 14:37, 9 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- Comment - It's also unfortunate that WP:BLP doesn't protect him from the scandalous claims in that source that he is the father of that bitch Noodle's pups. - SummerPhD (talk) 15:16, 9 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  - I sympathize with him, having gone through similar situations many a time. BTW, you know that A7 now also applies to animals, right? (Not in this case, of course--there is a claim to notability.) Drmies (talk) 15:21, 9 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    - I'll keep that in mind for the next non-notable animal article I find. It'll probably be a while... - SummerPhD (talk) 19:45, 9 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]
      - Tell that to Paddy the Wanderer. Drmies (talk) 22:51, 9 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

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Redirect to High School Musical (film series)#Cast members where he is already mentioned and cited. While inclusion is suitable there, he does not have notability for his own article. It's not as if he were Rin Tin Tin, Lassie, or Benji. Schmidt, ^{MICHAEL Q.} 00:20, 11 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]
I don't have a problem with that. But what redirect--this one, I guess, and Manly Ortega as well? Drmies (talk) 01:49, 11 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- I've added a redirect from Manly Ortega. (FWIW, it had previously been speedied as a G7.) The fate of this one will carry over to the redirect. In the seemingly unlikely event this is closed as a "keep", we might want to move the article to the redirect name, as I don't see the "Little Pickles" part on the dog's official bio page at Disney. Yes, the dog has an official bio. The Internet: The most powerful communications medium in history, primarily used for porn, stealing music and info on "famous" dogs. - SummerPhD (talk) 02:57, 11 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  - Excellent. The Disney bio actually does include that usage: "Born in Los Angeles, California, Master Manly Little Pickles of Fulton and Weddington (as his pedigree certificate reads) was a gift to Emmy Award-winning director and choreographer Kenny Ortega from his best friend, Kelly Gonda."[47] And too, New York Times' InBaseline also refers to the dog as "Manly 'Little Pickles' Ortega",[48] and it is again stated in Seattle Times,[49] so a second redirect from this one will work too. Schmidt, ^{MICHAEL Q.} 05:23, 11 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    - While I support whatever reasonable redirects someone wants to add (and I'm tempted to see just how many we can find), I have a more pressing matter: "Master"?! - SummerPhD (talk) 11:50, 11 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was withdrawn. Sir Sputnik (talk) 15:30, 11 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

AfDs for this article:

Articles for deletion/Rihards Gorkšs

Oļegs Malašenoks

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Article about a footballer who fails WP:GNG and who has not played in a fully pro league. This article was previously kept on the ground that Oļegs Malašenoks had been called up to the Latvian national team, or that he had played in the Europa League. Both of these claims appear to be false. Sir Sputnik (talk) 14:15, 9 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete - fails WP:NFOOTBALL and WP:GNG. Giant Snowman 14:31, 9 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Keep - new research has demonstrated notability. Giant Snowman 13:23, 11 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Keep - Because he played for different states Top Leagues clubs and is still available for calling-up for main team --Noel baran (talk) 14:57, 9 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Neither of these are relevant to notability. The top leagues he has played in are not fully pro and therefore insufficient to grant notability under WP:NSPORT. The claim that he may be called up at some point is speculation, which is never grounds for notability. Sir Sputnik (talk) 15:33, 9 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Excuse me, why Latvian league isn't "fully pro"? It's professional, not amateur. I agree that isn't Fußball-Bundesliga or other, but... I read this somewhat surprising, because in this way of thinking do possible to lot of footballers biographies!--Noel baran (talk) 16:05, 9 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Keep - This player has played for the Latvian National Team in 2010 according to FK Jelgava team website. Oļegs Malašenoks biography Also this player played in the 2010–11 UEFA Europa League Molde vs FK Jelgava 2nd qual. round first leg The problem seems that those that want to delete immediately should do a little research. Brudder Andrusha (talk) 18:11, 9 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Comment. UEFA says that he played in the qualifying rounds of the Europa League which isn't enough, in my opinion. However, NFT, a site I find useful for national team players, says that he played for Latvia in 2010. He is included in the team here for a 2010 Baltic Cup match against Lithuania on 18 June 2010. I'm going to see if I can find anything more reliable. Argyle 4 Life^talk 18:58, 9 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I find that quite bias since many countries have to have their teams go through the qualification process thus limiting their exposure to the high WP:NOTABILITY requirements which the Wiki Football team has set. Getting into European competitions even at the qualification level should be good enough, but thats not for this thread. Brudder Andrusha (talk) 19:57, 9 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

The fact that they have to go through qualifying rounds due to their league not being good enough isn't Wikipedia's fault. A player involved in a match between two semi-professional clubs (it can happen in qualifying) is not notable. Malašenoks has played for his country at senior international level so he is fine. Argyle 4 Life^talk 17:27, 10 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Keep. Malašenoks is included in the Latvian team for the match against Lithuania on the Latvian Football Federation and the Lithuanian Football Federation websites. As a Latvian international, he passes WP:NFOOTBALL. Argyle 4 Life^talk 19:05, 9 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Comment - As stated above, he is notable for having played for the Latvian national team. As nominator, I am prepared to withdraw this nomination. Sir Sputnik (talk) 19:30, 9 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Comment - His page should be updated to reflect his credentials so that this does not repeat. Sounds like a purrfect assignment for some Latvian who wants to improve their English skills. Brudder Andrusha (talk) 19:47, 9 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was no consensus with leave to speedy renominate. Ron Ritzman (talk) 23:56, 15 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

National Academy of Scuba Educators

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I have searched for reliable sources to establish notability and am unable to find any. The only references I can turn up are job postings and press releases, which do not signify notability. ConcernedVancouverite (talk) 16:08, 25 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. -- Cirt (talk) 22:42, 18 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Spy Versus Spy

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Seemingly non-notable Echetus Xe 13:28, 9 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Neutral - I'm listed as the author of the article, in truth I merely added it as a part of clearing the WP:AfC backlog and the requester was responsible for demonstrating notability. SteveBaker (talk) 13:51, 9 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

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Comment. This article is about a band. I would have expected this to be about Spy vs. Spy, the long running Mad magazine cartoon. If kept I'd suggest moving this to Spy Versus Spy (band) and adding this to the Spy vs. Spy (disambiguation). - Smerdis of Tlön - killing the human spirit since 2003! 14:33, 9 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- I would certainly support a rename. However, that issue does not relate to this AfD. SteveBaker (talk) 19:47, 9 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  - No, not really; on the other hand, neither the title nor the nomination said what the subject of the article was. - Smerdis of Tlön - killing the human spirit since 2003! 20:38, 9 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Comment whatever happens, this should redirect to Spy vs. Spy or Spy vs. Spy (disambiguation). If this is kept, it should be renamed. If this is deleted, a redirect should be created. 184.144.163.181 (talk) 04:50, 11 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

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Comment - just to note that there is a very notable 80s band from Australia at Spy_vs_Spy_(Australian_band) that should prevent the use of any (band) qualifier without further disambiguation (ie (English band)) or similar.The-Pope (talk) 11:44, 16 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Delete. For what I read I have this feeling that there might be something available offline from the time they first formed (1998-2003), but online the information is very scarce. One song is included at The Emo Diaries Chapter 4. The source is primary but it is reasonable to think that the reviews quoted on the bottom are legit. Still, even though Spy versus Spy are praised for their performance, the reviews are certainly concerned with the compilation instead, and other participating artists are given as much praise as well. Something to note is that the article's content is a carbon copy of this last.fm profile - frankieMR (talk) 23:48, 16 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. -- Cirt (talk) 05:27, 17 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Epilogue (band)

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Does not seem notable Echetus Xe 13:27, 9 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete - I checked all the major Progressive Rock sites, plus AllMusicGuide, and pretty much all I could find on the group was a review of their sole commercial release on Progressive World. The Wiki article itself has almost no real content; it's 90% unsourced rumors, speculation, and feeble attempts at humor.--Martin IIIa (talk) 00:02, 13 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was merge to Staffordshire University. PhantomSteve/talk|contribs\ 01:04, 24 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Wedgwood Halls

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non-notable Echetus Xe 13:21, 9 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

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Merge to Staffordshire University. University halls generally aren't notable in their own right, and whilst it's not impossible, you'll need more coverage than bog-standard university prospectus information. (Having said that, the article about the university is written like a prospectus too.) A Youtube video is far from enough. Chris Neville-Smith (talk) 16:54, 11 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

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Merge a minimal amount , as usual. We almost never accept them as notable in their own right. DGG ( talk ) 20:21, 22 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was keep. The reason for the deletion nomination no longer exists, as the article is no longer blank. If the article is still deemed problematic, a new nomination would be needed to discuss any new problems it may have. Sandstein 05:39, 18 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Warwickshire Police Authority

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Blank article, but contains tags, has previously been nominated for speedy deletion for copyright reasons on 6th May. I assume that deletion is contested as it has been recreated since deletion. Wintonian (talk) 11:11, 9 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Speedy Delete - A3, no content. --Anthem of joy (talk) 12:17, 9 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- I have taken the text out of the article as it seems that everytime I go to edit it it has changed from previous and therefore it would be easier to remain blank while you discuss the issue of the page. Warwickshire Police Authority is being referred to by another page (reason I chose to create it) which is therefore another concern for you. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Sashataylor (talk • contribs) 13:03, 9 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- A3 no longer applies.; and the original copyright-based deletion was wrong as OTRS clearance exists. Andy Mabbett (User:Pigsonthewing); Andy's talk; Andy's edits 09:29, 15 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Merge any useful content (before it was blanked) into Warwickshire or other suitable existing article. This organization isn't notable on its own. Peacock (talk) 13:28, 9 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]
The correct parent article would be Police authority, if we were going to merge. But Police authorities are a significant part of the administration of justice, here in the UK, and personally I'm of the view that they're inherently notable, being a relatively powerful and well-funded arm of government. I'll go with do not delete. As an interim measure I would accept a redirect to police authority or a merge to that article, but in the fullness of time Wikipedia should have a proper article with this title.—S Marshall T/C 13:44, 9 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Or we could redirect/ merge with Warwickshire Police --Wintonian (talk) 15:18, 9 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Comment I agree that the correct merge for a Wikipedia article on this topic would be with Warwickshire Police. The police authority is the statutory body responsible for policing, the police force the organisation discharging those duties. But clearly the information should not repeat general information applicable to all such bodies, and should be encyclopedic in form rather than merely duplicating information in another website. They are due to be replaced in 2012 under Government proposals. I agree with S Marshall that as statutory bodies with substantial powers GNG should not apply. In general I would prefer that information specific to each body be included under the matching police force if there is interesting to say about them, but if not they should qualify for an article in their own right. --AJHingston (talk) 15:22, 9 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]
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Delete and recreate either as a stub or a redirect to Warwickshire Police. Police authorities have a lot of power (as we know from the Ian Blair vs Boris Johnson war of 2005-2008), but the existing article (now blanked) looks like a reprint of a web page in a format unsuitable for an encyclopaedia. But there's no reason why someone shouldn't create a suitable article in its place. Chris Neville-Smith (talk) 08:05, 11 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Delete then recreate as a stub or redirect to Warwickshire Police per Chris Neville-Smith. The non-blanked version appears to be a copyright violation of the authority's website. Thryduulf (talk) 09:14, 11 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- That's why the very first revision has "OTRS pending" on it, I should think, Thryduulf. It's clearly the police authority's intention to give Wikipedia permission to use their copyright; I think they just thought Wikipedia was a kind of free web host. Sashataylor's remark (above) implies that they think they ought to be able to control the content of "their" page, too. But it will be easy to educate them on these matters. Assuming there's OTRS permission I don't see why we'd want to hide the history by deleting it before we redirect.—S Marshall T/C 23:27, 11 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  - I hadn't spotted the OTRS-pending tag. If acceptable OTRS permission is received then deletion before stubbification or redirect is indeed not needed. Thryduulf (talk) 02:26, 12 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    - Please see the talk page. The OTRS permission has been confirmed/approved (and it's been confirmed since before this article went to AfD). Jenks24 (talk) 08:39, 14 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Keep and expand. An inherently notable organisation and not the same thing as the Warwickshire Police Service. Separate organisations should have separate articles, for reasons outlined in my blog post about local government articles. And why do we treat new editors and their contributions - which we solicit - this way? How many of you have offered support? Andy Mabbett (User:Pigsonthewing); Andy's talk; Andy's edits 08:36, 14 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- Note: the aritcle is no longer blank. I've added new content. Andy Mabbett (User:Pigsonthewing); Andy's talk; Andy's edits 09:14, 14 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]
I propose keep and improve article and then consider merger when the government next restructures, so you have a joint historical article. User:MikeBeckett Please do say 'Hi!' 11:21, 14 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Ok I admit that I didn't notice the WP:OTRS and I'm not sure I have come across it before, so obviously that’s not an issue, but I'm still not sure whether it warrants its own article? In that respect I would be happy to along with User:MikeBeckett or just merge anyway --Wintonian (talk) 16:35, 14 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Keep. Article is now in a sufficiently rescued state. Chris Neville-Smith (talk) 09:06, 15 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. Owen× ☎ 21:07, 16 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Apples & Ampalaya

AfDs for this article:

Articles for deletion/Apples & Ampalaya

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Contested PROD. The article gives no indication, and I have found none by searches, that this book meets the notability standard of WP:Notability (books). JohnCD (talk) 10:51, 9 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete per nom, the article makes no claim to notability and does not appear to have reviews available, Sadads (talk) 11:34, 9 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Delete non-notable book. Moray An Par (talk) 12:13, 9 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Delete - subject of article does not appear to meet notability requirements for inclusion. --RightCowLeftCoast (talk) 18:40, 9 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Delete I can't find sources that could support notability. Besides, it has an Amazon Bestsellers Rank of #5,639,045. [50]. --Lenticel ^(talk) 01:50, 11 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I suppose the wikipedia servers are short of storage space and information about books has to be deleted. If you owned the book and if you were interested in Philippine history you might not be so ready to delete it. But Wikipedia is run by people who are very bossy, selective and restrictive about freedom of information.

The Reason it is so low on the Amazon list is because it is not published by a mainstream Publisher and distributed by a mainstread publisher worldwide. It is published in the Philippines, and as far as I'm aware, can only be sourced there. Therefore without proper advertising, thousands of people, who would otherwise be interested, are not aware of the book.

Go ahead and delete it if it will make you any happier.

Wikipedia imposes its own censorship and restriction of information on itself. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Nostradamus1566 (talk • contribs) 10:54, 11 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Please do read the notability guidelines and understand that "it is very interesting" is not a criterion for inclusion. Wikipedia is not trying to be the encyclopedia about everything although one may argue that the "sum of all human knowledge" (what Wikipedia tries to be according to its founder) is indeed everything. In simple terms, one wouldn't want articles about every single person in the world written. That's simply absurd. The same case applies here. For that very reason, Wikipedia has to have guidelines for inclusion. Unless you can present reliable third-party sources that indicate that this book is notable, we can't have it here. Articles created here are not meant for advertising. And yes, making Wikipedia cleaner and better does make us happier, and I wish it also does it to you. I invite you to help us in these goals. Moray An Par (talk) 12:50, 11 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Delete per nominator --- Tito Pao (talk) 07:09, 13 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. -- Cirt (talk) 00:27, 25 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Cross the Styx

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no individual notability shown for this album. lacks charting, awards, coverage. nothing satisfying WP:NALBUMS. duffbeerforme (talk) 10:16, 9 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I am also nominating the following other album pages by the same band:

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Delete all Wikipedia doesn't need album pages that will perpetually consist of only a track listing. A lack of notability or reliable sources locks this into a state of eternal uselessness. i kan reed (talk) 18:36, 23 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. Hoaxes do not qualify for speedy deltion. Owen× ☎ 21:05, 16 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

As We Become Men

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I believe this article shouldn't be on Wikipedia due to the reason of being a work of fiction by 'juniors in high school', as said article states, and not an actual film-work in any kind of production. This should be in a Wiki, because Wikipedia is not the right place for this. Cocoloco19 (talk) 01:12, 9 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

This AfD nomination was incomplete (missing step 3). It is listed now. DumbBOT (talk) 10:19, 9 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Delete The section about the cast is entirely wishful thinking, not fact. This is simply not notable. Peacock (talk) 13:31, 9 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Delete, per WP:MADEUP. This is a borderline hoax, and at best a fantasy. --Anthem of joy (talk) 15:24, 9 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Speedy Delete as a hoax. Wildthing61476 (talk) 15:26, 9 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Delete. As impressive as an (expected) gross revenue of 16,000,000 is, this is just made up. Also note that most of the cast's articles were edited to include their participation (maybe) in the film - frankieMR (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 19:15, 9 May 2011 (UTC).[reply]

HOAX???? the script I will post if you believe it is a hoax. you may be right that it is "wishful thinking but say it can't come true and watch what happens. Delete it. It is fine. Just wait and see. and the 16,000,000 is impressive, isn't? And do you know the director of Blue valentine wrote the screenplay when he was a "junior in high school." Just saying. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Logic78 (talk • contribs) 21:42, 9 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Delete: Wikipedia is not for things made up one day. I'd advise keeping an eye on the account as well, as it's been adding text to the actors' articles claiming they're in the film, an obvious BLP and V violation. Roscelese (talk ⋅ contribs) 22:48, 9 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was replaced by Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2011 May 15#Call recorder Andrevan@ 07:04, 19 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Call recorder

Call_recorder (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) - ([[{{subst:FULLPAGENAME}}|View AfD]])

This redirect does not make sense. Call recorder is not equivalent to Telephone tapping. A call recorder is a hardware device that allows the recording of telephone calls, which may or may not constitute tapping.

Paul Robert Murphy (talk) 13:42, 8 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

This AfD nomination was incomplete (missing step 3). It is listed now. DumbBOT (talk) 10:19, 9 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]
I would like to revoke this deletion request. Editor Andrevan pointed out that this should have been a redirect for discussion. Will do that now. Apologies for the mistak. Paul Robert Murphy (talk) 10:22, 15 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was keep. Several established editors have provided sources supporting the existence and notability of this entity. Sandstein 05:27, 18 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Galmudug

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I have proposed this article to be deleted in accordance with the Wiki guidelines. The article portrays a new state within a state. But when you search around the internet (i.e Google.com) the first article that shows up on "Galmudug", is this one. It seems to me that these breakaway regions are popping up everywhere but with no real leadership and it looks to me, after careful examining this article that it does not meet Wikipedia standards nor does it seem to portray reality on the ground. It represents an article on a state that has control over its territory though there's little mention of such entity in Somalia other than that of Somaliland and Puntland.

I believe this article was made up purely to support a individuals course. 26oo (talk) 02:41, 9 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

This AfD nomination was incomplete (missing step 3). It is listed now. DumbBOT (talk) 10:19, 9 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Keep Galmudug is an autonomous region in Somalia. THIS IS A FACT. I read the news on Puntland, Somaliland, and Somalia virtually every day, and Galmudug repeatedly comes up. Galmudug, admittedly, controls little outside of South Galkayo. To VERIFY FOR YOURSELF, however, that THIS IS TRUE, simply search in GOOGLE NEWS 'Galmudug.' You will get SHITLOADS OF STUFF VERIFYING THAT GALMUDUG IS A VIABLE, ACTIVE ADMINISTRATION ON THE GROUND. The same cannot be said for Awdalland or SSC, however, which really only exist on paper (SSC does not have much administrative structures, is mostly just a political movement/militia; Awdalland does not really have militia or structures on the ground as Somaliland pretty much exerts full control over its west). Galmudug IS ON THE GROUND, HAS STRUCTURES, but is weak and limited to a few settlements around Galkayo. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Morgog1 (talk • contribs) 19:44, 15 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Keep Galmudug is an autonomous region in Somalia. A weak administration to be sure, but an administration all the same. More such autonomous polities are starting to pop up in the country because the new national draft constitution allows them under a federal system of governance, wherein power is shared between the central government and autonomous regional entities. The Galmudug administration is already mentioned on the Somalia page, as well as the States and regions of Somalia article. It is also recognized by other autonomous states in Somalia as such, including Puntland (c.f. Galmudug Accord [51]). Middayexpress (talk) 21:09, 9 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Keep - This does appear to be the de facto governing block in this region, if not officially recognized as such by various nations. This seems to be constantly referred to as the "Galmudug state" by many sources. [52][53][54][55][56]--Oakshade (talk) 06:20, 10 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Keep as per Middayexpress and Oakshade. The fact that this article is the first result in a Google search is meaningless, as the same applies to any number of topics (e.g. "peanut"). -- Gyrofrog (talk) 16:27, 10 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Also add AFP as a source: [57]. -- Gyrofrog (talk) 21:37, 10 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Galmudug has no control over Galkacyo nor its own territory. It was created by people in the diaspora. I suggest you search (in Google.com) the following things; Ximan and Xeeb, Awdal State, Ras Aseyr. You will see that these are "states within states" as well. ^[1]^[2] Is anyone allowed to create there own state and get publicity through wikipedia? Ok, I call mine, WallaceLand, I will tell people I own the southern part of Milton Keynes26oo (talk) 22:36, 10 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

If WallaceLand garnered the significant coverage as this topic has, then that can have an article too. Good luck with that. --Oakshade (talk) 04:30, 11 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]
That first link you footnoted above doesn't mention Galmudug, and the second link is a blog (a self-published source; see WP:SPS). Middayexpress (talk) 04:52, 11 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

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They are not blogs, I urge you to check again.^[3]^[4] If you would bother to read the articles and my post it's not suppose to read "Galmudug" but rather show you that these so-called states are only in name and have no diplomatic relationships outside Somalia and no influence inside Somalia. Its existence is only in name so far. Another article I would want to refer you to is Ximan iyo xeeb. This clearly shows another article which is being build up from nothing. Also I have checked the The World Factbook and found that "Galmudug" was not mentioned under 'Government'.^[5] I also looked at the United Nations profile and found no other information. It looks to me it's rather individuals which are calling themselves Galmudug State. 26oo (talk) 23:57, 12 May 2011 (UTC)26oo (talk) 23:47, 12 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Regarding Ximan and Xeeb Ximan and Xeeb is a LEGITIMATE administration controlling territory in central Somalia. The reason you may not have been able to verify its existence is that XIMAN AND XEEB, UNLIKE THE OTHER 'STATES,' IS ALLIED TO AL-SHABAAB. This means that it gets lumped in with Al-Shabaab and most of the stuff written about it is in Somali. It is not allied with the TFG. Also, Ras Asayr is not a NAME ONLY place. There is an active revolt happening in Puntland; Puntland acknowledges this: http://www.raxanreeb.com/?p=95262 . That said, my guess is that Puntland WILL suppress Ras Asayr. I doubt Ras Asayr will be able to secede from Puntland, just like Puntland negotiated to have Maakhir come back into the fold. The situation in Somalia IS EXTREMELY COMPLEX. Some states are name only (Awdalland, Azania for the most part), others are newly declared with few structures, just militia, (Ras Asayr and SSC), others exist and have administrations but are extremely small and weak (Ximan iyo Xeeb, Galmudug). —Preceding unsigned comment added by Morgog1 (talk • contribs) 19:55, 15 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, I'm afraid that first link [58] you footnoted above doesn't mention Galmudug, and the second link, Somalilandpress [59], is most certainly a blog (a self-published source). It is, however, very appropriate that you should bring up the UN, since the UN itself officially acknowledges the existence of the Galmudug administration and actually invited it, alongside Puntland and other regions in Somalia, to participate in a consultative meeting just last month. Middayexpress (talk) 07:59, 13 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

For the third time, it's not suppose to mention "Galmudug", it's suppose to show anyone can declare a state and seems to have done so in this case and others. SomalilandPress is a reputable press-outlet in Somalia. It is a news outlet and you are just making stuff up. This is rather annoying. I think the third party, monitoring this conversation will see to that. To further prove my case I will I urge you to look at the citation in the Somaliland article and you will see that [39] is an article from the supposed blog.^[6] You have your facts wrong. The United Nations invitation to individuals doesn't mean it recognises the existence of that entity. Taiwan is not recognised by the UN and has been invited to UN-affiliated organisations.^[7]^[8] 26oo (talk) 14:54, 14 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, SomalilandPress is unfortunately a blog i.e. a self-published source ("the Government friendly SomalilandPress blog" [60]). As such, pointing to its use on other pages in Wikipedia only suggests that it should be removed from those pages too. Further, that Taiwan analogy is irrelevant; unlike Taiwan, Galmudug does not seek recognition as or consider itself an independent nation (nor does any region in Somalia, except of course for Somaliland) nor is it regarded as such by any polity in the world. I meant that the UN itself officially acknowledges the existence of the Galmudug administration as a region in Somalia, not as an independent nation. That is why I wrote that the UN "actually invited it, alongside Puntland and other regions in Somalia, to participate in a consultative meeting just last month". Bottom line, this deletion case is about the notability of Galmudug as a topic for a stand-alone Wikipedia article -- something which the other editors above have already established with little difficulty. The converse cannot be said. Middayexpress (talk) 18:35, 14 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

No it's not. First you said it doesn't exist, now you claim lack of notability? For a state-level administration? What is wrong with you? Ingoman (talk) 17:21, 16 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Somalis Please

It's a fun trick that you have learned to use the Wikipedia's insane deletion policies in order to get articles about other clans stuff deleted, and I have to admit I do find it amusing, but can we give it a rest please? You guys are embarrassing yourselves. Ingoman (talk) 19:06, 13 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was keep. -- Cirt (talk) 00:27, 25 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Largest producing countries of agricultural commodities

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This article is a list of unsourced #1 and #2 national producers of goods. The data is presented without any context, or indication about how/when the info in the list was decided. aprock (talk) 02:15, 9 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

This AfD nomination was incomplete (missing step 3). It is listed now. DumbBOT (talk) 10:19, 9 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

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Keep - Encyclopedic topic, tag for sources. Another good example of something that got hauled to AfD prematurely. This is theoretically fixable through the normal editing process. A polite note to the page creator to provide sourcing might work wonders. Carrite (talk) 04:00, 16 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I did some searching for sources, and found none. The linked reference is to some stat site, which hardly indicates notability. By all means, if you think it's worthwhile, do leave another note for the page creator. aprock (talk) 06:09, 18 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Keep appropriate topic for a comprehensive encyclopedia ; WP includes many of the elements of an almanac, as do all unabridged encyclopedias DGG ( talk ) 05:37, 16 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

If secondary sources can be found establishing the notability of this sort of almanac data, that would go a long way establishing the article as encyclopedic. aprock (talk) 06:09, 18 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

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Keep Topic is obviously notable since this sort of thing is surely covered by reliable sources. Chester Markel (talk) 06:22, 23 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]
This is a list, not an article, and should be renamed accordingly. Frankly, Wikipedia's coverage of agriculture and agricultural topics is absolutely terrible, and badly in need of support from experienced editors. But deleting this list won't improve matters at all, so keep.—S Marshall T/C 09:47, 23 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. -- Cirt (talk) 05:27, 17 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Mark S. A. Smith

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No indication of importance, fails WP:N. All reliable sources linked in the article are not actually coverage of the subject but coverage of organizations he was involved in. High number of self-published sources that do not establish notability. BelloWello (talk) 21:33, 8 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Delete: no indication that the topic meets WP:BIO, no indication of substantive third party sourcing. Hrafn^Talk_Stalk^(P) 10:15, 9 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

This AfD nomination was incomplete (missing step 3). It is listed now. DumbBOT (talk) 10:19, 9 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

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Comment Nominator BelloWello has been blocked indefinitely from editing Wikipedia for sock puppetry. Is this AfD still valid? OCNative (talk) 14:15, 16 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Delete Regardless of the nominator's status, the subject of this article fails notability. No independent reliable sourcing about him found. Claim to fame is some self-published and online books. --MelanieN (talk) 00:28, 17 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was redirect to 2011 military intervention in Libya. King of ♥ ♦ ♣ ♠ 18:20, 25 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Tajoura airstrike

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Content fork from 2011 military intervention in Libya. Scant news coverage; does not merit its own article. Lothar von Richthofen (talk) 21:52, 7 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Keep This was a notable strike caried out by allied forces. The death of 40 people in one go is notbale. Chesdovi (talk) 23:33, 7 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Week delete Although the incident is notable given that 40 people, which were confirmed by the Vatican, died in the air-strike, there is not much information on the incident itself to merrit an article of it's own. And, as it is, it's just a fork from the 2011 military intervention article. If more information or an investigation on the incident surfaces than yes there would be a need for the article. But for now keep it along with the main article. EkoGraf (talk) 19:43, 8 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

This AfD nomination was incomplete (missing step 3). It is listed now. DumbBOT (talk) 10:19, 9 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

delete per gng Pass a Method talk 15:41, 9 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

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Merge & Redirect - It is verified that the event has occurred, but given lack of substantial coverage, the content should be merged into 2011 military intervention in Libya, with referenced material being kept, and the page replaced with a redirect. --RightCowLeftCoast (talk) 04:22, 11 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Merge & Redirect per RightCowLeftCoast. Subject lacks "significant independent coverage" in WP:RS under the GNG, but should be covered in the main article IMO. Anotherclown (talk) 09:22, 11 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete, coverage in WP:RS not sufficient for a standalone article. Chester Markel (talk) 05:13, 18 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

How much time have you speant researching it before you come to this conslusion. How comes the Qana airstike is so comprhensive? Chesdovi (talk) 09:50, 18 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

WP:OTHERSTUFFEXISTS is not a legitimate argument. ~~ Lothar von Richthofen (talk) 10:22, 18 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

As for research, just click on any of the light blue links up top. You'll find that there is virtually no coverage of this incident, even with the vague title that it has. ~~ Lothar von Richthofen (talk) 10:25, 18 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

What about the NATO bomb error? Chesdovi (talk) 12:35, 18 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

That is a completely different airstrike. ~~ Lothar von Richthofen (talk) 15:45, 18 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I know. I am asking if that strike is notable enough for its own page. I'm itching to make a page on an airstrike. Chesdovi (talk) 17:41, 18 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

If you can find a variety of sources that address the strike in depth, then go ahead. But please try to keep the discussion here on-topic. ~~ Lothar von Richthofen (talk) 19:54, 18 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was no consensus. "looks funny and lack of citations make it seem like a fabricated folklore" is not a reason to delete, editing can sort that out - and there are references provided even if they are not inline. With the exception of that comment, the arguments seem pretty much equal, and as such I am closing this as no consensus, but without prejudice against a future renomination PhantomSteve/talk|contribs\ 01:03, 24 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Venkanna H. Naik

AfDs for this article:

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Looks like this is someone's personal interest, neither his educational qulifications nor his positions qualifie for wikipedia notability. There are out there so many Commissioners in India. He did not have the right qualifications such as IAS or ICS government degrees required for the commissioner's position. This page is there with no merits. Sorry we need to clean up many such pages. 0ukieu (talk) 15:14, 8 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

This AfD nomination was incomplete (missing step 3). It is listed now. DumbBOT (talk) 10:19, 9 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Comment on the 1st nomination: There are out there several thousands of people with such positions in India. The polulation is not critical to judge. Every State has at least on an avarage 200-400 disritcts in India. There are more than 20 States in India and there are more than 1 commissioners in each district. Indian villages are thickly populated. VH Naik as such has no publications. Yes, we have to respect his age and he is no more. But that should not be the criteria to judge. Someone in the family struggled to put up this page - Sorry. --0ukieu (talk) 12:18, 9 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete seems like a typical indian civil servant from the Raj era. Fails our notability standards - negligible independent coverage. There are also concerns of COI editing by family members. (and BTW, at-par, indian states don't have 200-400 districts; the number is more like 30-40, even UP has only around 70. And this was in raj era and entire provinces had only 20 or so districts each then).--Sodabottle (talk) 05:04, 11 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so a clearer consensus may be reached.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Ron Ritzman (talk) 00:06, 16 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Delete looks funny and lack of citations make it seem like a fabricated folklore. Haribhagirath (talk) 04:55, 16 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Keep No matter how many provinces there are in India, the DC of every one of them is notable as the principal government official of the district, which is thea major political subdivision under the province. We're an encyclopedia and NOT PAPER. DGG ( talk ) 05:35, 16 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Comment This is not fair at other similar/commissioners who were deleted. Which criteria are you referring to from Wikipedia notability? Not all commisioners are district heads. Some are officers in charge of some departments. Thanks.--0ukieu (talk) 18:09, 16 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

--0ukieu (talk) 10:47, 17 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Keep per my comments in the first deletion discussion. The fact that India is a large country with many districts in no way diminishes the notability of district collectors, each of whom is/was responsible for the administration of a large population. Phil Bridger (talk) 12:20, 22 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Comment Passing IAS is much more superior than having this position you are taking about. Naik did not pass IAS at all. In fact, i doubt he was a commissioner or he was fit to become a commissioner. Wikipedia has deleted so many commissioners with a IAS. There is no consistence how wikpedia works. Read what Sodabottle wrote above. Please stick to the notability criteria establsihed and point to it your discussions. If we donot justifiy, Wikipedia may eventually become a folder holding huge number of junk stuff.--0ukieu (talk) 14:05, 22 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Comment. According to its article the Indian Administrative Service was established in 1946, 17 years after this subject's death, so how can its exams possibly have any relevance to his notability? I don't know when the title "district collector" was changed to "commissioner" in the article, but during the last AfD I added a reliable source to confirm that he was district collector and further confirmation can be found here, here and here. Phil Bridger (talk) 17:08, 22 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Comment - Whether he was a commisioner or not is not the point. Why did wiki treat others differently who were more qualified than (having passed IAS) than VH Naik? They were removed without justification. Have a fair opinion - point to the wiki notability criteria that are set and point to it EXACTLY. Was ICS there then? Did he pass? Thanks.--0ukieu (talk) 23:37, 22 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

This discussion is about Naik, not those others that you keep going on about who have had their articles deleted, and why don't you point EXACTLY to any notability guideline that says or implies that passing an examination has any connection whatsoever to notability? Phil Bridger (talk) 07:35, 23 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

"Comment we are simply biased in our discussions, so is wikipedia. You check yourself WP:PROF, you have been an admin for wiki - It is simple, they do not qualify, so do Naik's page, period. Thanks.--0ukieu (talk) 11:38, 23 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

--0ukieu (talk) 10:45, 23 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Once again you are putting forward totally irrelevant arguments. No claim of notability as an academic has been made, so why invoke WP:PROF? And if you must keep banging on about other articles that have been deleted could you please provide links to the deletion discussions? Phil Bridger (talk) 13:08, 23 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

comment - I meant WP:BIO. You are talking as if you are in court e.g. I said that then... , I'll continue..--. I donot remeber the articles, but I was involved in them. I ask you to check them - you have all the tools available0ukieu (talk) 13:26, 23 May 2011 (UTC)--0ukieu (talk) 13:45, 23 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was keep. -- Cirt (talk) 05:27, 17 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Crime in Alice Springs

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An attack page. Selective picking from a few sensationalist beat ups of a short term rise in crime. A tabloid style piece promoting a cause, trying to make a town look bad. This article does not reflect the story of crime in Alice Springs, it's just an agenda pushing read on a news event. duffbeerforme (talk) 10:09, 9 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I think that it is necessary that there is an article under this title, as Alice Springs does indeed have major crime problems. However the current content on the article is utterly biased and could easily be seen as racist, wheter this is the intention or not, stating that the main problem with crime is due to the black Aboriginal people. The article is needed but it needs to be completly rewritten, or deleted and recreated anew. User Talk:Pingu.dbl96 —Preceding undated comment added 10:17, 9 May 2011 (UTC).[reply]

Merge with Alice Springs. It seems well sourced, but I don't think we need an independent article about crime in a town of 27,000 people. --Anthem of joy (talk) 12:22, 9 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

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Merge and Redirect to parent article, Crime in the Northern Territory which needs the content. SteveStrummer (talk) 18:09, 10 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

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I'm against a merge. This poorly sourced page does not in any way reflect the true story of crime in Alice Springs, it is a short snapshot that you get from the news and Wikipedia is not the news. This info is sensationalist and misleading where ever it may be. duffbeerforme (talk) 09:58, 12 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Keep: Notable topic, other Australian cities have similar articles. Ignorant Armie s 08:38, 14 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Keep. Articleworthy topic. Censorship for political correctness is not what Wikipedia is about. Moondyne (talk) 14:41, 14 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Keep - per Moondyne.--BabbaQ (talk) 17:24, 14 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Keep -- seems well sourced and factual. - Longhair\^talk 09:14, 15 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Keep - per Moondyne and Longhair Satu Suro 15:33, 16 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Keep - Groundless nomination. Trantsbugle (talk) 16:20, 16 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. joe decker ^{talk to me} 04:00, 17 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Speers Ponder

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Mid-level army officer and minor academic. No indication in article that topic meets WP:BIO, no third party sourcing (either in article or locatable through Google News/Books). Hrafn^Talk_Stalk^(P) 09:41, 9 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete. Too little coverage to demonstrate notability under either WP:BIO or WP:PROF. Nsk92 (talk) 23:30, 10 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Delete. It seems clear that he does not pass WP:PROF for his academic work, so we have to rely on WP:BIO for his military work. But the sources that have been provided are completely inadequate for that: we don't have any third-party sources that cover him in any depth, instead we have two sources that merely name-check him and two patents he wrote (not third-party). —David Eppstein (talk) 00:06, 11 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Delete per above, insufficient coverage to establish notability. bW 08:21, 11 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Comment I have struck the comments of User:BelloWello, who has been blocked indefinitely from editing Wikipedia for sock puppetry. OCNative (talk) 16:30, 16 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Delete: doesn't seem to meet notability requirements. As a military man, he doesn't seem to have had any significance (no important commands/roles, no significant advances, no awards, etc.) per WP:MILPEOPLE. There's also some gaps in his history that lend me to think his duties and accomplishments were routine in nature, namely, what exactly was he doing in WWII (the current "served in a variety of theaters" is far to vague to mean anything)? What about Korea? What was his role in the Chemical Corps? I can't speak very intelligently to his academic role, but it does seem he fails WP:PROF. Add to that a general WP:BIO and WP:GNG failures, the article doesn't have a leg to stand on. bahamut0013^words _deeds 12:28, 11 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was Keep. Lankiveil ^{(speak to me)} 03:38, 28 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Disappearance of Sarah MacDiarmid

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as per WP:EVENT and WP:EFFECT. unfortunately people disappear all the time, they get some coverage but a mere 7 gnews hits [61] says it all. and yes gnews has australian papers back for at least 50 years. LibStar (talk) 08:18, 9 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

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Can you please stop relying on ghits for 1990s events in Aust - it is completely missing! The-Pope (talk) 01:49, 10 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

no, Sydney Morning Herald goes back a while too [62]. how about a search on one of Australia's biggest news websites, 1 hit [63]. LibStar (talk) 02:09, 10 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I'm staggered. Do you actually read the results that you generate? The search for SMH find mentions of it in other papers, not references in it. As an example, the Prime Minister of Australia at the time was Bob Hawke. But search Australian sources in the 90s and you have one news.com.au link which wasn't actually from the 90s, and then a bunch from a single minor fringe newspaper. GOOGLE NEWS ISN'T RELEVANT FOR AUSTRALIA IN THE 1990s! So please stop using google hit counts for anything pre-2000 in Australia. The-Pope (talk) 15:17, 10 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

please find sources to establish notability for this person and her disappearance. LibStar (talk) 15:49, 10 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Keep. As The-Pope says, Australian newspapers from the 1990s are not in the google news archives. That said, two of the references already in the article, this one from the Australian Broadcasting Commission and this one from The Age, provide in-depth coverage of the topic. In addition, a gbooks search gives hits in The Encyclopedia of Unsolved Crimes and Mysterious Disappearances 1990–1999: Including Sarah MacDiarmid, Ben Needham, the Springfield Three Case, Morgan Nick. Even though the disappearance happened in 1990, it is still being covered in major Australian newspapers, eg [64]. See also this search of The Age archives which gives 27 articles that could all be added to the article as references. Jenks24 (talk) 18:58, 10 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Comment gbooks [65] only really has 2 hits on this. LLC books use Wikipedia as a reference. LibStar (talk) 06:51, 11 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Crime-related deletion discussions. — • Gene93k (talk) 23:20, 10 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

- I know that. The two books I mentioned are not published by LLC Books. Are you seriously suggesting that, even with all the references I've provided, you don't think this has significant coverage? Jenks24 (talk) 08:32, 11 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

people disappearing often get significant coverage, I don't see how this appearance meets WP:EVENT. LibStar (talk) 09:11, 11 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Considering that it's still getting significant national coverage 20 years after it happened, I think it easily passes WP:EVENT. Jenks24 (talk) 16:08, 11 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Keep - Per Jenks24, and per The Popes reasonings. There is no sufficient reason to delete this article.--BabbaQ (talk) 14:19, 11 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Merge or Delete to Sensing Murder No enduring historical significance or widespread impact per WP:EVENT. What we appear to have here is that a person disappeared, it was reported in various media (understandably, considering WP:RECENT) and was mentionned again yeas later on a TV program. As such, it fails WP:EVENT, WP:EFFECT and WP:NOTNEWS. LordVetinari (talk) 04:48, 16 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- With respect, did you look at the sources I provided in my !vote? Although the disappearance may fail WP:EFFECT, it passes WP:INDEPTH, WP:PERSISTENCE (see this for example) and WP:DIVERSE. It passes more of the inclusion criteria set out at WP:EVENT than it fails. Jenks24 (talk) 15:41, 16 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  - I may as well add one more wikilink to the collection, namely WP:BLP1E. LordVetinari (talk) 10:03, 17 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    - BLP1E does not apply in this case because the article is not a biography, it is about the event of MacDiarmid disappearance (which is why this AfD has been centred around EVENT, as opposed to BIO). Jenks24 (talk) 05:30, 18 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so a clearer consensus may be reached.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Sandstein 05:23, 18 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Comment I guess I'm a little confused about exactly how the subject is notable. The article discusses one event as it relates to one person. So let's look at each of those points. Considered biographically, the article gives biographical information, therefore the fact that the article is named Disappearance of Sarah MacDiarmid rather than Sarah MacDiarmid doesn't make BLP1E any less relevant. Of course, it is questionable whether the person is still alive, so I suggest we consider this more in terms of WP:ONEEVENT rather than BLP1E; which is basically the same but without the apparent requirement that the subject be living (BLP1E). Therefore, we must ask, was the victim notable for anything other than her disappearance? The answer is, apparently, No. We could, of course, refer to WP:VICTIM and, indeed, that policy seems to suggest this article should stay, but the question arises: Is mere repeated coverage the same as persistent coverage? We're not talking about an ongoing story, with a new chapter popping up every year or two (as with Azaria Chamberlain). Also, how is merely disappearing having a large role within a well-documented historic event? Unfortuantely, people disappear all the time, but Wikipedia is not Unsolved Mysteries. Which raises the issues of WP:EVENT. Was the event a precedent or catalyst for something else of lasting significance? No. Did the event have significant impact over a wide region, domain, or societal group? I presume not. Regarding WP:INDEPTH, I doubt that guideline alone would support inclusion else a single well-written news story would be sufficient to get an article on WP. As for WP:DIVERSE and WP:PERSISTENCE, to satisfy those two guidleines, I'd expect that each new or unique mention in the media would offer an update of some form; to do otherwise means each mention is simply repeating old news and, as I mentioned earlier, repetition is not the same as persistence. Nonetheless, I agree that this article is one of those borderline cases and I must emphasise that I'm not determined to see it deleted. However, I just don't believe the subject deserves its own article. Hence, I've slightly changed my vote above to emphasise my preference for merging. LordVetinari (talk) 07:34, 18 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Keep Per Jenks24. Jivesh • Talk2Me 19:28, 24 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so a clearer consensus may be reached.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, -- Cirt (talk) 06:33, 26 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Keep While I was previously unfamiliar with this case myself, the sources Jenks24 has provided certainly establish it as notable. This news article, for instance (just one of many), suggests that it's still very much in the national consciousness twenty years after the fact, and seems to speak to the criteria in WP:EVENT about duration of coverage, as well as implying that it did "have a significant impact over a wide region"—it seems to have been covered in national papers, and I'd consider all of Australia a sufficiently wide region to qualify. ----Smeazel (talk) 08:05, 26 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- Comment Also, the appeal to WP:BLP1E and WP:ONEEVENT is utterly irrelevant. These guidelines deal explicitly with the question of whether a person only known for one event should have his or her own article separate from the article about the event. They have absolutely no bearing whatsoever on whether an event should have its own article—that's what WP:EVENT is for. If this were an article about Sarah MacDiarmid herself rather than about her disappearance, then those guidelines would be entirely germane, but arguing that an event shouldn't have an article because the people involved in that event aren't known for anything else is trying to apply WP:BLP1E and WP:ONEEVENT backwards, and makes no sense at all. ----Smeazel (talk) 08:14, 26 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Weak Keep. This link given by user: smeazel proves that the disappearance is atleast somewhat long-term notable.--Pink Bull 15:08, 26 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Keep In addition to the sources already mentioned by others above, a search at EBSCOhost Australia/New Zealand Reference Centre [Australasian magazines, newspapers, newswires and reference books] for "Sarah MacDiarmid" lists 56 results as follows:

list

   * 1.

     News
     Sarah's flame still burns strong on the eve of a heartbreaking 20-year anniversaryFull Text Available By: DENISE GADD. Age, The (Melbourne), 10/07/2010
     Database: Australia/New Zealand Reference Centre
     Add to folder Remove from folderRelevancy: Relevancy Rank is 100
     HTML Full Text
   * 2.

     News
     PLEA ON MISSING SARAHFull Text Available Sunday Herald Sun (Melbourne), 11.07.2010, p20-20, 1
     Database: Australia/New Zealand Reference Centre
     Add to folder Remove from folderRelevancy: Relevancy Rank is 95
     HTML Full Text
   * 3.

     News
     Did killer take our Sarah too? By: David Murray. Sunday Mail, The (Brisbane), 04/09/2005
     Database: Australia/New Zealand Reference Centre
     Add to folder Remove from folderRelevancy: Relevancy Rank is 95
     HTML Full Text
   * 4.

     News
     Website to help grievingFull Text Available By: People | Donna Carton. Frankston Standard-Hastings Leader, 26.07.2010, p5-5, 1
     Database: Australia/New Zealand Reference Centre
     Add to folder Remove from folderRelevancy: Relevancy Rank is 93
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   * 5.

     News
     Website to help grievingFull Text Available By: People | Donna Carton. Frankston Standard-Hastings Leader, 26.07.2010, p5-5, 1
     Database: Australia/New Zealand Reference Centre
     Add to folder Remove from folderRelevancy: Relevancy Rank is 93
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   * 6.

     News
     Did Paul Denyer kill Sarah, too?; Secret fears of killer's family By: KELVIN HEALEY. Sunday Herald Sun (Melbourne), 15/05/2005
     Database: Australia/New Zealand Reference Centre
     Add to folder Remove from folderRelevancy: Relevancy Rank is 93
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   * 7.

     Transcript
     Million dollars on offer in missing persons case ABC Premium News, 10/07/2010
     Database: Australia/New Zealand Reference Centre
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   * 8.

     News
     Yard hunt for clues on Sarah By: CARLY CRAWFORD. Sunday Herald Sun (Melbourne), 26/09/2004
     Database: Australia/New Zealand Reference Centre
     Add to folder Remove from folderRelevancy: Relevancy Rank is 91
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   * 9.

     News
     $1m reward in bid to let Sarah rest By: Padraic Murphy. Australian, The, 06/02/2004
     Database: Australia/New Zealand Reference Centre
     Add to folder Remove from folderRelevancy: Relevancy Rank is 90
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   * 10.

     News
     Brother's plea to find body By: Mark Buttler chief police reporter. Herald Sun (Melbourne), 15/11/2006
     Database: Australia/New Zealand Reference Centre
     Add to folder Remove from folderRelevancy: Relevancy Rank is 90
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   * 11.

     News
     Vic: $1 million on offer for info on MacDiarmid disappearance By: N.A.. AAP Australian National News Wire, 05/02/2004
     Database: Australia/New Zealand Reference Centre
     Add to folder Remove from folderRelevancy: Relevancy Rank is 87
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   * 12.

     News
     The dark side of life exposed For 37years Charlie Bezzina worked tirelessly to solve some of the state's most shocking crimes. His new book reveals the heartbreak and hardshipsFull Text Available By: Keith Moor. Herald Sun (Melbourne), 17.09.2010, p38-38, 1
     Database: Australia/New Zealand Reference Centre
     Add to folder Remove from folderRelevancy: Relevancy Rank is 85
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   * 13.

     News
     $1m reward to end pain of 14 years By: Mark Alexander. Sunday Mail, The (Brisbane), 15/02/2004
     Database: Australia/New Zealand Reference Centre
     Add to folder Remove from folderRelevancy: Relevancy Rank is 84
     HTML Full Text
   * 14.

     News
     Flowers mystery; Parents' plea over death By: CARLY CRAWFORD. Sunday Herald Sun (Melbourne), 10/07/2005
     Database: Australia/New Zealand Reference Centre
     Add to folder Remove from folderRelevancy: Relevancy Rank is 84
     HTML Full Text
   * 15.

     News
     $1mil. to end a family's torment By: Holly Lloyd-McDonald. Herald Sun (Melbourne), 06/02/2004
     Database: Australia/New Zealand Reference Centre
     Add to folder Remove from folderRelevancy: Relevancy Rank is 83
     HTML Full Text
   * 16.

     News
     Vic: $1 million on offer for info on MacDiarmid dissappearance By: N.A.. AAP Australian National News Wire, 05/02/2004
     Database: Australia/New Zealand Reference Centre
     Add to folder Remove from folderRelevancy: Relevancy Rank is 83
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   * 17.

     News
     Stop our suffering By: HOLLY LLOYD-McDONALD. Herald Sun (Melbourne), 10/07/2003
     Database: Australia/New Zealand Reference Centre
     Add to folder Remove from folderRelevancy: Relevancy Rank is 83
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   * 18.

     News
     $1m for leads on missing womanFull Text Available By: Andrea Petrie. Age, The (Melbourne), 06/02/2004
     Database: Australia/New Zealand Reference Centre
     Add to folder Remove from folderRelevancy: Relevancy Rank is 80
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   * 19.

     News
     15 years and still waiting, hoping Herald Sun (Melbourne), 07/07/2005
     Database: Australia/New Zealand Reference Centre
     Add to folder Remove from folderRelevancy: Relevancy Rank is 79
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   * 20.

     News
     TV previewsFull Text Available By: JUDY ADAMSON. Sydney Morning Herald, The, 20/09/2004
     Database: Australia/New Zealand Reference Centre
     Add to folder Remove from folderRelevancy: Relevancy Rank is 79
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   * 21.

     News
     No leads from psychicsFull Text Available By: highlights WITH GLEN HUMPHRIES. Newcastle Herald, The (includes the Central Coast Herald), 30/03/2005
     Database: Australia/New Zealand Reference Centre
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   * 22.

     News
     $1m reward in bid to solve 1990 murder By: Padraic Murphy. Australian, The, 06/02/2004
     Database: Australia/New Zealand Reference Centre
     Add to folder Remove from folderRelevancy: Relevancy Rank is 79
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   * 23.

     News
     In good taste? By: Victoria Segal, Helen Stewart and Sarah Dempster. Sunday Times, The, 08/05/2005
     Database: Australia/New Zealand Reference Centre
     Add to folder Remove from folderRelevancy: Relevancy Rank is 77
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   * 24.

     News
     Supernatural sleuthsFull Text Available By: SCOTT ELLIS. Sun-Herald, The (Sydney), 26/09/2004
     Database: Australia/New Zealand Reference Centre
     Add to folder Remove from folderRelevancy: Relevancy Rank is 74
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   * 25.

     News
     Sense of satisfaction By: Eleanor Sprawson. Daily Telegraph, The (Sydney), 22/09/2004
     Database: Australia/New Zealand Reference Centre
     Add to folder Remove from folderRelevancy: Relevancy Rank is 72
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   * 26.

     News
     CRITIC'S CHOICE - SundayFull Text Available By: LARISSA DUBECKI. Age, The (Melbourne), 23/09/2004
     Database: Australia/New Zealand Reference Centre
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   * 27.

     News
     TV EYE ; Robert Fidgeon takes a critical look at what's on our screens this week By: Robert Fidgeon. Herald Sun (Melbourne), 22/09/2004
     Database: Australia/New Zealand Reference Centre
     Add to folder Remove from folderRelevancy: Relevancy Rank is 71
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   * 28.

     Periodical
     I SEE dead people.Full Text Available By: Brown, Jenny. Woman's Day (Australian Consolidated Press), 27/09/2004, Vol. 56 Issue 39, p103-103, 1p, 2 Color Photographs
     Subjects: AUSTRALIA; GIBNEY, Rebecca; SENSING Murder (TV program); TELEVISION programs; SUPERNATURAL beings; PSYCHICS; BYRNE, Rhonda
     Database: Australia/New Zealand Reference Centre
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   * 29.

     News
     No visits to Denyer; Killer brother refuses meeting By: KELVIN HEALEY. Sunday Herald Sun (Melbourne), 04/09/2005
     Database: Australia/New Zealand Reference Centre
     Add to folder Remove from folderRelevancy: Relevancy Rank is 69
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   * 30.

     News
     CRITIC'S CHOICEFull Text Available By: BRIAN COURTIS. Sun-Herald, The (Sydney), 26/09/2004
     Database: Australia/New Zealand Reference Centre
     Add to folder Remove from folderRelevancy: Relevancy Rank is 68
     HTML Full Text
   * 31.

     News
     CRITIC'S CHOICEFull Text Available By: BRIAN COURTIS. Sunday Age, The (Melbourne), 26/09/2004
     Database: Australia/New Zealand Reference Centre
     Add to folder Remove from folderRelevancy: Relevancy Rank is 68
     HTML Full Text
   * 32.

     News
     Psychic sleuths By: Simon Yeaman. Advertiser, The (Adelaide), 22/09/2004
     Database: Australia/New Zealand Reference Centre
     Add to folder Remove from folderRelevancy: Relevancy Rank is 68
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   * 33.

     News
     prime time By: Words: Phillip Koch. Sunday Telegraph, The (Sydney), 26/09/2004
     Database: Australia/New Zealand Reference Centre
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   * 34.

     News
     Turning to crime was not so tough for smitten new mum Rebecca Gibney. By: Words: Phillip Koch. Sunday Mail (Adelaide), 26/09/2004
     Database: Australia/New Zealand Reference Centre
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   * 35.

     News
     Disappearance haunts TV psychic Herald Sun (Melbourne), 06/04/2005
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     Daredevils fit as a fleeFull Text Available By: Glen Humphries. Newcastle Herald, The (includes the Central Coast Herald), 25/09/2004
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     In from the cold to defy a killer By: KELVIN HEALEY. Sunday Herald Sun (Melbourne), 28/08/2005
     Database: Australia/New Zealand Reference Centre
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     Periodical
     SOLVING THE Beaumont mystery.Full Text Available By: Brown, Jenny. Woman's Day (Australian Consolidated Press), 31/01/2005, Vol. 57 Issue 5, p28-29, 2p, 4 Black and White Photographs
     Subjects: HILL, Scott Russell; PSYCHICS; BEAUMONT, Jane; BEAUMONT, Arnna; BEAUMONT, Grant; MISSING children; BEAUMONT, Nancy; BEAUMONT, Jim
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     News
     Psychic clues By: Erica Thompson. Courier Mail, The (Brisbane), 23/09/2004
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     A case for psychics By: TONY JOHNSTON. Sunday Herald Sun (Melbourne), 26/09/2004
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     News
     NETWORKINGFull Text Available By: KYLIE MILLER. Age, The (Melbourne), 23/09/2004
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   * 42.

     News
     Hands-on psychics By: Kerrie Murphy. Australian, The, 25/09/2004
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     News
     Bones discovered in backyardFull Text Available Frankston Standard-Hastings Leader, 09.08.2010, p2-2, 1
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     Periodical
     'I KNOW WHERE THE BEAUMONTS ARE!'.Full Text Available By: Brown, Jenny. Woman's Day (Australian Consolidated Press), 06/02/2006, Vol. 58 Issue 6, p32-33, 2p, 2 Color Photographs, 2 Black and White Photographs
     Subjects: ADELAIDE (S. Aust.); AUSTRALIA; HILL, Scott Russell; CHILDREN -- Death; AUSTRALIA Day
     Database: Australia/New Zealand Reference Centre
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     News
     There to help outFull Text Available By: Volunteers | Jeff Jones. Oakleigh Monash-Springvale Dandenong Leader, 30.09.2009, p5-5, 1
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     News
     Witnesses 'too scared' to plunge into police rewards poolFull Text Available By: MARK RUSSELL. Sunday Age, The (Melbourne), 22/03/2009
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     News
     Police rewards going unpaidFull Text Available By: MEX COOPER. Age, The (Melbourne), 19/01/2009
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     Rewards face scrap as $10m unclaimed By: Mark Dunn. Herald Sun (Melbourne), 06/02/2006
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     News
     A state of mind; Rebecca Gibney is loving her new life, writes Darren Devlyn By: Darren Devlyn. Herald Sun (Melbourne), 22/09/2004
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     don't miss By: Robert Fidgeon. Herald Sun (Melbourne), 25/09/2004
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#
$1m for murder reward; Parents of slain woman win inquest By: Geoff Wilkinson. Herald Sun (Melbourne), 17/12/2004
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# 52.

News
$1m reward for graveside killer By: Gosia Kaszubska. Australian, The, 02/02/2005
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# 53.

News
$1m reward for graveside killer By: Gosia Kaszubska. Australian, The, 02/02/2005
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# 54.

News
Witness to death revealed; Police re-open strangling case By: CARLY CRAWFORD. Sunday Herald Sun (Melbourne), 06/06/2004
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# 55.

News
Psychic phenomena By: TONY JOHNSTON. Sunday Herald Sun (Melbourne), 14/11/2004
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56.

News
Swimming out of fearFull Text Available By: with GLEN HUMPHRIES. Illawarra Mercury, 25/09/2004
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--Melburnian (talk) 05:58, 27 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was no consensus again. However, since this is an unsourced BLP I'm going to move it to the incubator Ron Ritzman (talk) 00:09, 30 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Wikipedia:Article Incubator/Olivia Waldriff

Olivia Waldriff

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as per my previous nomination. whilst she has had a few roles, i can't find evidence of significant roles as required by WP:ENT. gnews makes passing mentions [66]. LibStar (talk) 08:11, 9 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

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Comment Sorry stub that needs some care. Her career is easy to verify and a little research finds more than just "passing mentions". For instance, the Toronto Star article of March 2008 represents significant coverage and is not just a passing mention.[67] It could/should be used to begin citing the article, yes... but simply needing work is rarely cause for deletion. Schmidt, ^{MICHAEL Q.} 03:00, 12 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

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Keep per MichaelQSchmidt. Chester Markel (talk) 01:22, 16 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

WP:JUSTAVOTE. LibStar (talk) 02:11, 20 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. Owen× ☎ 18:33, 16 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

2011 Australian Open – Boys' Singles Qualifying

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Parallel with Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/2010 Wimbledon Championships - Girls' Singles Qualifying: tournament is very notable, junior tournament is also notable, but the qualification for it isn't. Fails WP:N and WP:NSPORTS. Fram (talk) 08:05, 9 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Also nominated:

Delete per arguments of previous AfDs.--70.80.234.163 (talk) 18:32, 9 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete all per WP:Sports event and WP:TENNIS. Moondyne (talk) 02:52, 10 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Delete. Agree with everything said above. Jenks24 (talk) 18:40, 10 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete junior tournaments are not notable; far less are qualifyings to junior tournaments, regardless of whether being to Grand Slams or not.--♫Greatorangepumpkin♫T 10:24, 11 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. Owen× ☎ 18:20, 16 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Angela Beaumont

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fails WP:BIO and WP:CREATIVE. no coverage for this artist except one passing mention in an article in gnews [68]. the awards are minor local awards. LibStar (talk) 07:45, 9 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Delete. Fails WP:BIO and WP:CREATIVE. Crisco 1492 (talk) 08:05, 9 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete. Fails all criteria at WP:ARTIST. Awards at country shows are not notable. WWGB (talk) 00:49, 10 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete per both. Johnbod (talk) 16:31, 12 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. Owen× ☎ 18:17, 16 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Bahram Gurbanov

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Technical nomination. This article was PRODed by anon editor, but after that was DEPRODed by potentially COI editor. Reason for PROD was lack of reliable sources. Beagel (talk) 07:37, 9 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

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I don`t understand one moment. I gave a number of references and external links,so..why article has to be deleted ? Fuadenbaum

Please do not remove the AfD tag before the discussion is closed. For sources, please see WP:RS, which sources are satisfying reliable sources criteria. Also, most of information you re-added to the article qualifies as corporate spam and should be removed. Removing this, there is no sources about Bahram Gurbanov. Beagel (talk) 09:41, 9 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Delete. All references given in the article are affiliated with the subject and his enterprise and the 1newz statement is about the GRBS centre, not explicitely about Gurbanov. No independent proof of notability. De728631 (talk) 13:15, 9 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Delete No independent reliable sources for notability. --Muhandes (talk) 16:03, 9 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you for information. How can I prove that all information in article are true ? because I have not a lot of reliable sources. --Fuadenbaum —Preceding undated comment added 09:02, 10 May 2011 (UTC).[reply]

You are missing the point. The first question would be is this person notable enough to be included in Wikipedia? Did the person receive significant coverage in reliable secondary sources that are independent of the person? If the answer is that you do not have enough reliable independent secondary sources, the person is not notable per the relevant guideline, and should be removed. And if you keep removing the AfD notice from the page despite repeating warnings, you will be blocked. --Muhandes (talk) 17:13, 11 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete The article seems to be written/maintained by a copywriter. No reliable sources, all references listed seem to be not about the subject but about something else (with claimed connection to the subject). Not notable per WP policies. 208.123.163.171 (talk) 05:15, 16 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was Keep The book sources identified by User:frankieMR and those added by other editors since deletion indicate that the group is notable beyond Peru. Mandsford 18:33, 1 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Los mojarras

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Doesn't seem that notable. All I can see on Google is Blogspot, Facebook and YouTube. Who needs names? (talk) 07:26, 9 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Have you checked to see if those sources already in the article are notable? Are there any sources in Spanish? Sven Manguard Wha? 07:32, 9 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Keep: this is perfectly notable, just you are searching google in the wrong language. We need to keep the page, but it needs a wikification added to it and its broken English needs improving. It also needs a band template and photo added and filled out. It also needs to be redirected to a page with proper capitalization and the redirect article removed. User talk:Pingu.dbl96 —Preceding undated comment added 10:24, 9 May 2011 (UTC).[reply]

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Keep. I was able to find several sources in books and news, ranging from incidental mentions to a slightly more focused coverage (I wasn't able to find an exclusive profile or interview). Here are some examples from books 1 (this is the one mentioned at the article I believe) 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9. A couple of them are interesting in that their subject is actually a city, and Los Mojarras are mentioned because of a song, like in "This place X is what Los Mojarras were talking about in Y song", which I think reflects a certain level of repercussion. Here are some examples from the first page of Gnews 1 2 3. A quick look to the second page of hits showed more articles available (of a different content). I can't judge the reliability of the sources, but it seems that notability is met overall - frankieMR (talk) 23:19, 16 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete to the fact that this has too many unknown links and I agree with Who needs names?. --Strangeowl1948 (talk) 11:29, 23 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. -- Cirt (talk) 05:27, 17 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

John Tuke (cartographer and surveyer)

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Obscure 19th century cartographer of Northern England. No articulation of any particular notability, no indication of substantive coverage from {{find}}. Hrafn^Talk_Stalk^(P) 06:56, 9 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Delete Does not appear to be notable. Sven Manguard Wha? 07:42, 9 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Delete as not notable. For anybody who wants to check or consider further, note that the Tukes were a prominent York Quaker family, of whom the best remembered is William Tuke whose entry really does deserve expansion, and several were called John. This one was born c1758 and died 1841. The comment that he is known only for three maps is wrong (booksellers are not all reliable sources) and his most significant work is his General View Of The Agriculture Of The North Riding Of Yorkshire (1800) which runs to 355 pages. It is referred to by academic writers but has not in my view been of sufficient interest to pass the notability criteria. --AJHingston (talk) 13:17, 9 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. -- Cirt (talk) 05:27, 17 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

ComputerSmarts

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There are a couple of hits for this behind from 1987 that are behind newspaper paywalls. Best I can tell from the free access though, the most any of those are saying is that its an expensive educational Christmas gift, a generic statment made about dozens of items every year, and one that does not establish notability. As such, this fails the notability guideline. Sven Manguard Wha? 06:23, 9 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Comment Sources that were apparently overlooked include this and this. It also should be understood that, since the product is from 1987, it is highly likely that most sources cannot be found online. Silverseren^C 07:45, 9 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- I didn't "overlook" them, I discounted them. The second one has absolutely no context, just the name of the product. The first one is a glorified advertisement, and that coverage reaches the point of "there is proof that this item exists" but not the point of "this is notable". That a website, even a newspaper or magazine, mentions a product is not enough to establish notability. The sources themselves need to indicate the notability. There isn't any here, as far as I can tell. Sven Manguard Wha? 08:30, 9 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Delete. Does not seem to be noticeable, nor does it seem to have had a lasting effect, unlike Tickle Me Elmo. [The first link above appears to be a passing mention when discussing the company, and the second one may not be a reliable source; aren't sections like that usually paid for by the companies? Crisco 1492 (talk) 08:35, 9 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete - as with VideoSmarts, the sources smell of press-kits, and it seems we are beyond the suggestion of merging everything to Connor Toy Corporation. Marasmusine (talk) 11:51, 10 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. Wizardman _{Operation Big Bear} 03:17, 18 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Young radicals

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No indication of importance for this student organization. There are no results related to this 1920s club in a google news including "Columbia University" where it was ostensibly active. I considered proding but perhaps some editor can uncover something that Google doesn't know about. BelloWello (talk) 06:23, 9 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Comment - This isn't a "university club" and was improperly stubbed as politically-related rather than philosophy-related. This seems to be a group of philosophy co-thinkers, a trend, something like Young Hegelians. I have no opinion as to inclusion-worthiness myself, but be sure you are looking in the right places for additional sourcing and please do tread lightly here. Carrite (talk) 17:18, 9 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

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Comment Just to reiterate Carrite's point above, we are definitely talking about a group characterised by intellectual affinity – more Vienna Circle than Marlowe Society. I'd be a lot less inclined towards deletion than if this were such an organisation. Skomorokh 23:29, 10 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- Do you have significant coverage in reliable sources for that? I looked quite extensively both when I nominated and after Carrite's comment and didn't come up with anything significant. bW 23:34, 10 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  - Pardon? I did not address sourcing in my initial comment, only the scope of the topic at hand. Skomorokh 00:14, 11 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    - Oh, alright, I reread your comment, I completely misread it. My bad. bW 04:11, 11 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Delete The first source listed indicates that these are philosophers of the school of pragmatic naturalism. That title (which is currently a redlink) might make a good topic as there are books devoted to it. Young radicals is not a useful search term though as it does not seem to be the name of the school and so the phrase is just being used in a general way. Colonel Warden (talk) 04:37, 15 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Delete. As noted by Colonel Warden, the term itself is not useful when searching for reliable sources; hundreds upon thousands of passing mentions that we would have to sift through to find information on this group, if reliable sources even exist online. That seems to be the epitome of not verifiable to me. Crisco 1492 (talk) 07:33, 15 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Comment Nominator BelloWello has been blocked indefinitely from editing Wikipedia for sock puppetry. Is this AfD still valid? OCNative (talk) 14:16, 16 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Comment - It galls me than a fairly incompetent deletion nomination by a blocked editor is going to stand, but the Colonel's point above that the search term is insufficient and unlikely to be used in searching Wikipedia is a good one. I still have a strong hunch that there is probably an article here, but it may well be best if somebody takes that on from scratch at some future date. No opinion as to inclusion-worthiness. Carrite (talk) 18:09, 16 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Comment. At the ANI board regarding the mass nomination of pornographic actresses, RL0919 mentioned that, as long as there are delete votes, the nominator's status is irrelevant. Crisco 1492 (talk) 12:03, 17 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. -- Cirt (talk) 22:42, 18 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Upon a Burning Body

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Delete. Previously deleted via AFD and recreated. G4 declined due to addition of a source about the band's denial of entry into Canada. Subject does not meet criteria for notability in accordance with WP:BAND or WP:GNG. Cind.amuse 08:50, 1 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

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Burn, sources aren't up to par. Chester Markel (talk) 01:06, 16 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Delete Crappy Myspace type band.♦ Dr. Blofeld 22:06, 16 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was Delete. WP:SNOW closure. Gogo Dodo (talk) 04:06, 10 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Super Awesome Party/Conservatives only

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Organization that clearly fails the notability guidelines, WP:GNG and WP:ORG. Nominating to AfD to have a deletion discussion so that this can be salted if created again. Monty ₈₄₅ 04:39, 9 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Delete I'm shocked and awed... 20 members... on facebook... and... no coverage at all? I'm not cynical enough to cry "salt it", generally at least one recreation is needed first, but that aside, this article is a promotional piece for an organization that clearly fails notability guidelines. Sven Manguard Wha? 07:38, 9 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Delete No reliable sources found in a good faith search. - Pointillist (talk) 09:54, 9 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Speedy delete, db-group, just like last time. Hairhorn (talk) 11:30, 9 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- Didn't know there was a last time. In that case, we should let this run out so that it can be salted, or at the very least, allow db-recreated to come into play. Sven Manguard Wha? 18:27, 9 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  - Or not. On a quick second thought another speedy and an IAR salt wouldn't bother me at all. Sven Manguard Wha? 18:28, 9 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    - I was really thinking of a salt after the next recreation, not this one, but either way, I think this deletion discussion would be enough for a G4 or salt, even if gets speedy deleted here. (though I'm not sure if the current version is the best case for a speedy) Monty ₈₄₅ 18:49, 9 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Delete with an inclination towards the speedy. As impressive as a group that has "skyrocketed in membership from 12 to over 20" must surely be, fails to meet any of the criteria for notability. - Dravecky (talk) 01:44, 10 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Delete No notability My76Strat (talk) 02:16, 10 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Do not delete I found this to be an enlightening in depth article on an innovative political system. I heard from many news sources that they will publish more information about it soon. 3:14, 10 May 2011 (UTC)— Oysterizer Insomniac (talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic.
Delete 20 members = non-notable. GabrielF (talk) 03:57, 10 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. Wizardman _{Operation Big Bear} 23:08, 15 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Utah Utes football under Ron McBride

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This article has been split into 13 separate articles. This duplicates those 13 articles and information found in the Ron McBride article. —Ute in DC (talk) 04:20, 9 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete without prejudice to recreate. As it stands now, the article is duplication. However, it is very possible that the article could stand alone with additional details and information--it just isn't there right now. If the article is expanded to be more than a re-hash of what already exists, I'd certainly change my position. If deleted, an appropriate re-direct should be made (which, technically isn't a delete... but you guys know what I mean).--Paul McDonald (talk) 12:59, 9 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Delete. I'm the original author of the article, and it has served its purpose. The recently-created 13 separate articles will do a better job now. DeFaultRyan 15:26, 9 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- Any reason we shouldn't just blank the article and redirect? Or maybe use a WP:SPEEDY G7 (author requests deletion)? I'd lean towards the redirect for now...--Paul McDonald (talk) 20:52, 9 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

As the nominator, I would not object to a redirect. I nominated the article to get a full opportunity for others to comment. However, what would it redirect to? The main Ron McBride article? —Ute in DC (talk) 22:29, 9 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

That's what I was thinking. Right now, it's really a robust disambiguation page. BUt more comments would be good, there's no deadline.--Paul McDonald (talk) 00:30, 10 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. -- Cirt (talk) 22:42, 18 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

GrayMatter

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Possibly a non-notable company/organization. I will do this for now rather than having the article speedy deleted. Crazymonkey1123 (Jacob) ^{T or M}/_{Sign mine} 04:19, 9 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Possibly? Anything is possibly non-notable. This nonprofit has raised several thousands of dollars and has a very respectable advisory board. It is an up and coming tool for students in need, especially those in New York City. visit its website graymatterfdn.org and you'll see it is notable indeed. 68.174.254.72 (talk) 04:22, 9 May 2011 (UTC)68.174.254.72[reply]

See sockpuppet case and block, which appears to be Andsoad182. Dennis Brown (talk) 12:53, 16 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Delete. Non notable. I nominated this for speedy deletion, as a worthy student organization with no objective reliable sources supporting notability. Wikipedia is not a service for posting 'up and coming' entities, nor is it a directory for good causes. 99.189.155.209 (talk) 10:12, 9 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

An objective source I found via google: http://stuyspectator.com/2011/02/15/with-graymatter-students-fund-student-matters/ I'm sure there are more Andsoad182 (talk) 16:10, 9 May 2011 (UTC)andsoad182[reply]

The !vote by Andsoad182 does not count until we verify he is not using 68.174.254.72 as a sockpuppet (to double !vote). Crazymonkey1123 (Jacob) ^{T or M}/_{Sign mine} 01:06, 10 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Yes and no. Having once edited one, I note with regret that high school newspapers are not considered as reliable sources as are professional publications. Rather than claiming there are more, it's necessary to actually find them; the Google search links at the top of this page yield little. 99.189.155.209 (talk) 21:40, 9 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

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Just delete the page... Andsoad182 (talk) 02:49, 12 May 2011 (UTC)andsoad182[reply]

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Delete Only discussed by SPS. The references to CNN and NYT articles don't mention the organization. Chester Markel (talk) 01:20, 16 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Delete Not notable. Andsoad182 (talk) 02:03, 17 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. -- Cirt (talk) 04:21, 16 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

The 100 Greatest Singers of All Time

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Listcruft, possible copyvio, no substance. —Justin (koavf)❤T☮C☺M☯ 03:37, 9 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Keep - There are third party sources covering list. See google news archive. --CutOffTies (talk) 03:52, 9 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Keep. It may need a rename though if it is not referring exclusively to the Rolling Stone list. We also have some precedent for keeping articles like this. Crisco 1492 (talk) 08:42, 9 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]
(edit conflict) Delete First of all, if this is going to get kept, the name needs to be changed to "Rolling Stone 100 Greatest Singers of All Time". Second of all, this might have coverage, but it's pure opinion. Notable magazine or not, we're regurgitating... partially even... someone else's subjective opinion and passing it off as objective fact. The issue of copyright comes into play when we begin regurgitating other people's lists. All in all, I think this is better off getting the axe. Sven Manguard Wha? 09:13, 9 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- Comment: I did a move to remove Rolling Stone from the title per the title of the articles in Crisco's comments. The list voters are not necessarily associated with Rolling Stone magazine. As for the copyvio, precedent is to list the top ten. I asked about this here. --CutOffTies (talk) 11:44, 9 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

It appears that the precedent is that way, and it would be enough to satisfy most people. For those who want to see the full list, there is a link at the bottom. The only way we could include the whole thing is if Rolling Stone explicitly granted permission, but that's unlikely. Crisco 1492 (talk) 12:09, 9 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I'm afraid that even that precedent is iffy per the Wikimedia Foundation attorney's advice. See her feedback here. I've reduced the list to the top 10, but this is not really safe practice according to her. I've been meaning for almost two months now to launch an RfC about this, but it keeps getting shoved aside by more urgent considerations (see User talk:Moonriddengirl/sandbox)--Moonriddengirl ^(talk) 12:22, 9 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I'd be willing to discuss it there. If the proper person contacted Rolling Stone to get permission (full or partial) would be nice too, although it could end up with us not including the list. Crisco 1492 (talk) 12:30, 9 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I agree. For what I can read from the feedback the list is definitely one best left unapproached without such permission. Kudos if there is, but still the title's gotta change like Sven Manguard said - frankieMR (talk) 23:49, 10 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Delete -- as copyright infringement per Wikimedia Foundation legal opinion (See Moonriddengirl's link) -- this exists only as a direct copy of a subjective list. Even it wasn't a copyvio, the title is terribly misleading. Greatest Singers? Throughout the world? Throughout History? Really? Note there are no pre-rock singers (Frank Sinatra}, no jazz singers (Billy Holliday), no foreign language singers (Edith Piaf), no operatic singers (Luciano Pavarotti) and there can't be any singers after 2008. The best that can be said is this is a List of Rolling Stone Magazine's suggested greatest pop rock singers in the United States music market between 1950 and 2008. Otherwise, this is a geocentric, time-constrained POV that should not be presented as if it were a worldview encyclopedic fact. — CactusWriter ^(talk) 17:39, 9 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete per Sven Manguard and CactusWriter. --Klein zach 23:29, 10 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Delete unless there is permission - frankieMR (talk) 23:49, 10 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. -- Cirt (talk) 04:21, 16 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Michael Prysner

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PROD contested because it was added "3 minutes after a new article is created" Fails WP:POLITICIAN - not been elected to anything (received just six write-in votes), has no coverage in reliable sources that that address the subject directly in detail in that are independent of the subject so fails the WP:GNG. Mtking (talk) 03:11, 9 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Keep. If you look at the actual coverage, there is significant, independent coverage of the person. This interview is extensive and so is this one. This one quotes him fairly extensively as well. It seems he is a fairly notable anti-war activist.--TM 03:16, 9 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Also, I removed the prod because I feel that you could not have looked over the large number of sources provided in the time between the article's creation and 3 minutes later when you prodded it. Unless it is utter nonsense, I think it is better to give the author some time to expand and improve it before trying to delete an article that may or may not be notable.--TM 03:21, 9 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

If you look at carolhansengrey.com one it is written by the subject. None of the other sources given are main stream reliable sources. with the exception of the sun-sentinel and this is just quoting him and uses phrases such as "Prysner says he served ...." a journalistic tool indicating that they have not researched this person and are relying on what he is saying. He IMO is not worthy of encyclopaedic note Mtking (talk) 03:31, 9 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete Fails WP:BIO. Purely trivial coverage of his positions, no coverage of him per se, as required by notability criteria. Ray^Talk 20:16, 9 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Delete Fails WP:BIO. Frothing up a lot of bubbles on the Internet does not create notability. -- Donald Albury 23:10, 9 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

What say you wish to delete to this source? It looks substantial and independent to me.--TM 03:00, 10 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

That is pretty clearly an antiwar advocacy site, of dubious reliability and independence when it comes to evaluating the notability of an antiwar advocate. Ray^Talk 03:29, 10 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

(edit conflict) It is from a website called "antiwar.com", not what you could call a well respected, and if you look at Wikipedia:Reliable_sources/Noticeboard you will see that they are not regarded as a reliable source. Mtking (talk) 03:32, 10 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Actually, that is not what the discussion says. The discussion is referring to using antiwar.com as a source for criticism. Moreover, there is a basic disagreement and no consensus even on that issue. Do we use governmental biographies for politicians? Wouldn't you say they are they clearly advocating a position? For biographies, it doesn't matter if the source is biased towards anti-war opinions and whatnot. It matters if it is is substantive and independent, which it is.--TM 11:42, 10 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

International news network RT interviewed Prysner in detail. WP:BEFORE you nominate an article for deletion, you are expected to make a reasonable effort to find sources. You very clearly did not do this. The hasty prod and Afd nomination cycle here is an example of why it is reasonable to wait and perhaps do a google search before nominating.--TM 11:55, 10 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. -- Cirt (talk) 04:21, 16 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Brian Glick

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The article's subject is known only for one event. Sad, but there seems to be little encyclopaedic notability. Ohconfucius ^¡digame! 03:08, 9 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete. Fails the various criteria in WP:EVENT. No coverage outside of the regional area. Location (talk) 05:27, 9 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Delete. Wikipedia is not a news repository, nor a list of all the murders in the world. His death is sad, but it does not seem to be a notable one. Crisco 1492 (talk) 08:47, 9 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

There were 155 murders in the state of Minnesota in 1993. Most of them received little notice in the local media. This murder was well documented for 2 years. The sources include only print sources in a couple of papers that are easily accessible through library databases, thus excluding radio and television coverage, as well as print matter that was not digitized. David Straub (talk) 15:43, 10 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Keep - Why should we delete so many crime articles so lightly.. I dont see any issues with having thi article who has been on wikipedia since 2006 on. If no one has spotted a problem with it for so many years I find it hard to believe there to be a cause of concern. Also regional story doesnt equal non-notable per fact, also Wikipedia is infact built on news.--BabbaQ (talk) 15:25, 9 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Delete Fails WP:EVENT, and if the article has been up since 2006, that's not a reason to keep it, just more evidence there are likely many older articles out there about non-notable subjects people haven't reviewed yet.Jimsteele9999 (talk) 17:38, 9 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Delete That city probably has a homicide every other month; we could probably write an article like this on each of them. The fact that it is possible to write such articles doesn't mean that it's desirable for Wikipedia to have articles on run of the mill crimes. WhatamIdoing (talk) 23:07, 9 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Sorry, but the WP:MILL doesn't hack it here. Take a look at the page, it refers to names of stores and prep-sports athletes.David Straub (talk) 15:43, 10 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Strong Keep - The murder of Brian Glick was a significant event in Minnesota in 1993-95. While the deceased was not notable, the event was widely covered in the state media, particularly for it's brutality. This article is based on [Wikipedia:Identifying reliable sources|reliable sources] and occurred at the dawn of the internet age and is therefore not well represented through simple google searches. From 1993 to 1995 there were 482 murders in the state of Minnesota and including one that was well covered is very much encyclopedic. I've published articles in several hard print encyclopedia's published by academic publishers (Encyclopedia of the Jewish diaspora, (Encyclopedia of the Veteran in America), (Worldmark Encyclopedia of Cultures and Daily Life) and I can say that idea that an article would not appear in a standard 10 volume encyclopedia of everything is irrelevant, as there are hundreds of specialized encyclopedia's published each year. Notability in academia is determined by context and in this article the context is Minnesota, not the world (and the article is tagged appropriately). If we just want this site to be a wikibritannica, then the name should be changed.David Straub (talk) 16:39, 10 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Delete fails WP:VICTIM. The test is long standing notability as per WP:EVENT. Not if it was just got a lot of coverage in Minnesota at the time. LibStar (talk) 15:31, 11 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was no consensus. (non-admin closure) Baseball Watcher 02:28, 18 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Luke Brookshier

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Article fails WP:GNG (no reliable secondary sources). Ring2011 (talk) 21:32, 23 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Delete - insufficient notability, as above. --Whiteguru (talk) 23:36, 23 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Note to closing admin The subject of this AfD was not properly tagged (or tagged at all) until 04:43, April 24 [69]. Monty ₈₄₅ 04:47, 24 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I have also notified the page creator which was not done, and removed the CSD A9, as the subject is not a musical recording. Monty ₈₄₅ 04:59, 24 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

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delete no coverage in gnews of his role. imdb confirms he has only worked on 1 notable production. that does not get him notability. LibStar (talk) 02:51, 28 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Keep. He was nominated for a PrimeTime Emmy Awards which is notable. Gsearch brought additional sources which have added to the page. Readorama (talk) 11:44, 30 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was Keep. UltraExactZZ ^Said~ Did 12:45, 18 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Ryan Sallans

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There is no notability except for media coverage that exists only because of the sexuality issue(WP:ONEVENT).--— ZjarriRrethues — ^talk 07:52, 23 April 2011 (UTC) — ZjarriRrethues — ^talk 07:52, 23 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Delete - Non notable transmen. WP:1EVENT because of his only appearance on local live newspaper where he talked about his financial problems while battling his gender issue. Eduemoni ^↑talk↓ 15:08, 23 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

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Keep - At least 2 reliable sources have done a feature on him satisfying WP:BASIC. [70] [71] [72] His article has been fleshed out with more sources including several more media appearances. Ziperof ^talk 01:40, 1 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Delete - Sources given so far suggest he's famous for being famous. Media appearances are not sufficient. SparsityProblem (talk) 04:11, 2 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Keep per Ziperof, I find the existing coverage to be substantial and adequate. coccyx bloccyx_(toccyx) 00:00, 3 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Delete - Changing your sex and telling other people about it does not make someone notable.--Burkina Faso (talk) 20:27, 5 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Weak keep per Ziperof. The article does satisfy the bare minimum standard for notability. —Tim Pierce (talk) 12:44, 6 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

The sources verify WP:ONEVENT, because the media coverage came us a result of the sex change.--— ZjarriRrethues — ^talk 13:35, 6 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Not really. The coverage in the two sources that are specifically about Sallans (as opposed to articles which cover him in passing) are more about his ongoing speaking engagements than about the event of his transitioning. Like I said, I think it's weak, but qualifies. —Tim Pierce (talk) 14:45, 6 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

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Keep, sufficient coverage for notability. We do not concern ourselves with the reasons for which our article subjects are covered by the media; notability is independent of any personal merits of the subject or the reasons for why they may become famous. BLP1E does not apply, as the subject's fame is not tied to any particular notable event. Sandstein 05:43, 18 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was speedy delete. CSD G3. I call bovine fertilizer. Ron Ritzman (talk) 00:16, 16 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

List of 13th School Gang episodes

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No context and no main article. —Justin (koavf)❤T☮C☺M☯ 03:00, 9 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

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Speedy delete per CSD G3. I'm really unable to find anything about a "13th School Gang" or variations of it (nothing for "Tomorrowcast: The series of Tomorrow" either), and the article claims that there were 16 seasons with 400 episodes and 10 movies. So either this is a blatant hoax, or I want Google to give me my money back - frankieMR (talk) 00:27, 10 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was redirect to Bethel School District. PhantomSteve/talk|contribs\ 00:58, 24 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Pioneer Valley Elementary School

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Non-notable elementary school stub with no proper (independent/verifiable sources. Bhockey10 (talk) 02:54, 9 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

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Redirect to school district as per standard procedure. --Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 17:11, 9 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Comment That old way needs to be looked at again. There's no reason to be keeping/redirecting common, localized, non-notable subjects like elementary schools. I don't even know if it's standard procedure. Some school articles get deleted, others merged , and another 450+ are in Category:School articles to be merged. Bhockey10 (talk) 20:20, 9 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

That 'old way' has been standard practice set by precedent of thousands of redirected school articles for years. However, it's not set in stone so if you wish to change it please consider making an making a proposal at either WP:WPSCH, the WP:VP, WP:RfC, or any other appropriate venue. Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 04:37, 10 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete per nom. Wizardman _{Operation Big Bear} 00:44, 16 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Delete per nom. Chester Markel (talk) 01:16, 16 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Redirect per standard practice. Carrite (talk) 03:57, 16 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Redirect per standard practice, with no merge needed. --Metropolitan90 (talk) 04:42, 16 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. -- Cirt (talk) 22:42, 18 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Jeremy Dunham

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I see nothing notable about this individual other than he wrote a couple of strategy guides and was an editor of IGN.com at some point. Jonny2x4 (talk) 02:53, 9 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

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Comment - WP:CREATIVE is the notability guideline for editors and authors. I'm fairly sure the subject doesn't meet the general notability guidelines, so I think his only shot is at #1 of CREATIVE. There are a handful of citations at Google Scholar (if I search with "IGN". I wish I could see the full text for "Thoughtless Play" - "Jeremy Dunham's (2004) review at IGN.com is seductive..." snip.) Marasmusine (talk) 11:47, 10 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- Comment - His name also appears in a news search, mostly in articles that reference his reviews. —Ost (talk) 19:52, 12 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so a clearer consensus may be reached.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Ron Ritzman (talk) 00:15, 16 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Delete. Is nothing more than a glorified webmaster. Fails WP:GNG, WP:BIO, WP:CREATIVE, etc. Qworty (talk) 09:02, 17 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was no consensus to delete. Merge can be discussed further on the talk page, if needed. T. Canens (talk) 11:20, 24 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Finwë

(Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)

Article fails to establish notability with reliable, third-party sources. Crisco 1492 (talk) 10:45, 1 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Also, please remember WP:NOTJUSTPLOT. Crisco 1492 (talk) 05:49, 2 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

- Delete per nom, unless there's a place to merge and/or redirect it to. Harry Blue5 (talk • contribs) 12:17, 1 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Keep It is referenced in multiple external sources. Why do you not consider it notable? Francis Bond (talk) 13:30, 1 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

The references you refer to are a book about the writing of the Lord of the Rings used to confirm the age of the character and a fan site showing a genealogy. The fan site is not a reliable source and I doubt that the book by Christopher Tolkien could be used to prove notability. Crisco 1492 (talk) 13:53, 1 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I confused the fan site with a journal, my apologies. I do consider the books in the History of Middle Earth series by Christopher Tolkien to be secondary sources, as opposed to the primary sources of the Lord of the Rings and Silmarillion. I note that there are several google book hits: some obviously not good sources but some that look like academic works (Die Weltdeutung im "Silmarillion" von J. R. R. Tolkien. There isn't quite enough context shown for me to be able cite them, but I consider that enough to show notability. Francis Bond (talk) 14:09, 1 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Die weltdeutung... Google translate gives "The interpretation of the world" which is quite a vast title; is there a Google books version available to see it in context? Crisco 1492 (talk) 14:54, 1 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Amazon's read it now does not show anything in the table of contents regarding Finwë, as far as I can tell. The whole book is not available though so that doesn't offer much help. Crisco 1492 (talk) 14:59, 1 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Amazon's read it now does not show anything in the table of contents regarding Finwë, as far as I can tell. The whole book is not available though so that doesn't offer much help. Crisco 1492 (talk) 14:59, 1 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Comment The Christopher Tolkien books may provide appropriate context - while large parts of the HoME books are reproduction of unpublished work by JRR Tolkien, there is also a significant element of original work by Christopher Tolkien on the creative process. In principle this is no different to any other critic unpicking how a book was put together. If there is a significant amount on (say) the creation of the character of Finwe, this would contribute to establishing notability. You'd probably want another source as well though. 4u1e (talk) 19:32, 1 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I've reviewed those books I have access to, and there's almost nothing on Finwë. He is not mentioned in Letters or in Humphrey Carpenter's biography of Tolkien. Neither is he mentioned in Tom Shippey's two books on Tolkien or in John Garth's Tolkien and the Great War. Of the Christopher Tolkien books I have, he is only mentioned in Peoples of Middle-earth, but almost all mentions are in-universe and there is no discussion of the development of his character. Having said that, I do not have the most relevant History of Middle-earth volumes to hand (The Book of Lost Tales, The Lays of Beleriand, Morgoth's Ring and The War of the Jewels) and from memory those do contain some (brief?) discussion of his development. 4u1e (talk) 10:33, 2 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Comment I'm leaning toward supporting deletion of Elros, who took little if any active part in the fictional history; he's significant mainly for being the ancestral link between Aragorn and various figures in Beleriand. But Finwë has a more active role in the Silmarillion, so I reckon he's worth keeping if Joyce Summers is. —Tamfang (talk) 19:47, 1 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Notability isn't about how important a character is in a book (and Finwë is hardly one of the main characters of The Silmarillion), but about how notable the character is in the real world, as indicated by secondary sources. 4u1e (talk) 10:56, 2 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Keep (Changed my mind per Cenarium's reasoning below. De728631 (talk) 20:01, 9 May 2011 (UTC)) Merge and redirect to List of Middle-earth Elves. Martinez wrote another essay on Finwe (http://www.suite101.com/article.cfm/tolkien/78484 – can't be linked because the host site is on the spam filter) explaining his genealogy and his role in the development of Tolkien's fiction. There's also a book by Hammond and Scull, J.R.R. Tolkien, artist and illustrator, that treats Tolkien's design of a heraldic device for Finwe and his royal house (Google Books page of the German edition). And what Temfang wrote above should also be considered. So ~~while we might not need a full article,~~ the current content itself should not be deleted. De728631 (talk) 20:01, 1 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Keep There seem to be hundreds of third-party sources for this topic and so its notability is evident. Colonel Warden (talk) 22:49, 1 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Such as? Are they reliable sources? Fan sites and magazines aren't acceptable. Crisco 1492 (talk) 23:03, 1 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Such as the numerous books listed in the search link at the head of this discussion. Colonel Warden (talk) 23:24, 1 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I followed the link as you suggested, and the results end up:

Two novels with a similarly named character or at least quoting the same passage.
A book that seems to list the names of Elven kings (not necessarily in a real-world context.
Three French books, one of which looks like a translation of the Lord of the Rings
A book on the languages of Middle Earth, which we cannot see inside.

I don't see how any of these books could be used to proof notability. Most mention Finwe in passing and don't focus on him, and there is a general lack of real-world context. Crisco 1492 (talk) 23:47, 1 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

The diaeresis may cause some difficulty. When this is allowed for then satisfactory sources are found. Colonel Warden (talk) 00:03, 2 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I used the link above, so the diaeresis should have played no role. Perhaps you could link to one (or more, preferably) source(s) that discuss(es) Finwë in depth? Crisco 1492 (talk) 00:18, 2 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

The diaeresis does play a role. Sources include:

The complete Tolkien companion
The complete guide to Middle-earth
Tolkien: the illustrated encyclopedia
The evolution of Tolkien's mythology
A reader's guide to The Silmarillion
The origins of Tolkien's Middle-earth for dummies
J.R.R. Tolkien: myth, morality, and religion
J.R.R. Tolkien and his literary resonances

Colonel Warden (talk) 00:32, 2 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Fine, any quotes to show that it is not just a passing reference or just a rehash of information found in first party sources? A Google books version would be better. Crisco 1492 (talk) 05:40, 2 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

As for the diaeresis, I meant that it was included so I should not have gotten any results for Finwe (without the diaeresis). Crisco 1492 (talk) 05:45, 2 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

As you now see, this is a significant issue. It is often the case that some variation of search keywords is required to bring out the richness of the sources available. Colonel Warden (talk) 09:34, 2 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I knew it from the beginning. The books I was referring to were this one and this one, which use the diaeresis. Crisco 1492 (talk) 10:13, 2 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

~~Merge~~ Keep (changed after identification of suitable sources by Cenarium below)4u1e (talk) 18:21, 6 May 2011 (UTC) a brief mention to List of Middle-earth Elves. We don't need to keep the plot summary element of the article. There does not appear to be any significant real world commentary on this character - the references given above largely come about because more notable characters in the mythology are descended from him, so we get many google hits for the "descendants of Finwë", "sons of Finwë" for example. 4u1e (talk) 10:53, 2 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

There are lots of "real world" commentary on this character, as demonstrated below. Cenarium (talk) 14:29, 6 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Comment: here are some Google links to the list by Colonel Warden with at least two important findings for the understanding of Tolkien's legendarium:

The new Tolkien companion (not the "complete" companion): 20 hits within the book
The complete guide to Middle-earth: One dedicated in-depth entry on Finwë and several other hits
Tolkien: the illustrated encyclopedia: one encyclopedic entry, several other hits in the book
The evolution of Tolkien's mythology: one large chapter on "Finwë and Míriel" that among other things expands on the fact that marrying again after the death of one's spouse was unheard of for Tolkien's elves until Finwë did it
A reader's guide to The Silmarillion: 16 hits in the book, not clear though how comprehensively Finwë is being treated
The origins of Tolkien's Middle-earth for dummies: apparently only mentioned in passing
J.R.R. Tolkien and his literary resonances: views of Middle-earth: Interpretation of the Silmarillion that points out that it was actually the slaying of Finwë that drove his son Fëanor into his desastrous war of revenge, not so much the theft of the Silmaril by the archvillain Morgoth.

Apart from that one might even add a print-published slash fiction with Finwë as a character: The Silent Hustler ("Exiles", 163-177). That book itself may be non-notable but it demonstrates that the use of "Finwë" has gone beyond internet fanfiction. On that note it would be interesting to know whether the Tolkien Estate actually approved of Finwë being used in a gay short story. De728631 (talk) 00:50, 3 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you for the links. I am however concerned that they may not be applicable under WP:NOTJUSTPLOT. This one may be useful for describing the creative process behind his creation, but sadly it cannot be read in full. (As a side note, I fully agree that finding out how the Tolkiens would react to published homoerotic slash fiction, or if they approved it, would be interesting... any friends to the family?) Crisco 1492 (talk) 04:24, 3 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Keep Gets covered in books other than those published by the author himself. Dream Focus 14:51, 3 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Delete or redirect [to List of Middle-earth Elves. Lacks coverage that isn't WP:PLOT/WP:INUNIVERSE. No sources giving WP:Real world perspective. Hrafn^Talk_Stalk^(P) 16:20, 3 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Fictional elements-related deletion discussions. -- • Gene93k (talk) 18:25, 3 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Keep, notable and suitable for a standalone article. The subject has been discussed by numerous secondary sources, and as one can check, the coverage is significant, as shown above and as I'll further demonstrate. WP:INUNIVERSE and WP:Real world are style guidelines, not relevant to notability or suitability for article-ship. WP:PLOT is relevant, but if you look at the coverage in secondary sources, it allows to write much, much more than just plot information.

Before substantiating this case, I'll make a general comment. It seems that several commentators consider that coverage by reliable secondary sources is acceptable for notability/suitability assessment purposes only when it is of purely 'real world' nature, such as creation of the character, reception, etc. This is wrong, WP:GNG doesn't specify which type of coverage is acceptable, and nothing in policy suggests that some sort of 'real world notability' is required, however that might be defined, what is required is notability according to WP:GNG. Of course when considering suitability for article-ship, we have to consider more than only notability of the subject, and there comes into play WP:NOTPLOT. But the corollary of WP:NOTPLOT regarding suitability for article-ship is that there should be some coverage which goes beyond pure plot information, and certainly not that only coverage of 'real-world' nature is relevant when discussing suitability. Now, regarding this case:

As an example of "more than plot" coverage, the subject of Finwe's remarriage (to Miriel) as a societal topic has been discussed by various sources. E.g.: J.R.R. Tolkien: myth, morality, and religion by Richard Purtill, in I Am in Fact a Hobbit: An Introduction to the Life and Works of J. R. R. Tolkien (how it involves monogamy, and how it led to "The Debate of Finrod and Andreth", documented in Morgoth's Ring), Tolkien in the land of heroes: discovering the human spirit, and Mythprint: Volumes 31-32 by the Mythopoeic Society (describing on this a 'fascinating debate').

Regarding the development of the character and its place in Tolkien's work, this is extensively covered in Arda reconstructed: the creation of the published Silmarillion, by Douglas Charles Kane. Finwë is mentioned in dozens of pages throughout the book, the story between Finwe and Mfriel is thoroughly covered, and the importance of Finwë's house highlighted. The author even makes the following commentary which further attests to the significance of the character: "Christopher's decisions to omit the bulk of the material on Finwe and Miriel and not include it as a separate chapter [in the Silmarillion], as Tolkien clearly intended, (...) are very disappointing." (emphasis mine), points which is further stated throughout the book.

This is also covered in The J. R. R. Tolkien Companion and Guide by Christina Scull, Wayne Hammond, where the relation between Finwe and Miriel is described as "an important element to the mythology".

In The evolution of Tolkien's mythology: a study of The history of Middle-earth, finwe and miriel are given a full chapter.

So this proves that the subject is notable, and that a standalone article is warranted in order to provide proper encyclopedic coverage of this topic.

Cenarium (talk) 14:29, 6 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Comment Regarding your first point, note that WP:WAF (part of the MoS) says that "When an article is created, the subject's real-world notability should be established according to the general notability guideline by including independent reliable secondary sources—this will also ensure that there is enough source material for the article to be comprehensive and factually accurate." Emphasis mine. I don't regard most of the coverage previously given above as relevant, but you do identify some suitable looking real world secondary sources, which is enough to tip me back to keep (with the proviso that somebody actually embodies them in the article!). 4u1e (talk) 18:21, 6 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Indeed but I think that the use of 'real world' here is innocuous, it means that the element should be notable in the sense of GNG, as opposed to just being notable in the work of fiction itself. GNG doesn't make distinctions based on the type of coverage; a source which would make the case that an element of fiction is important in the work of fiction for example, even without making reference to real world, would be valid for establishing notability. Cenarium (talk) 20:33, 6 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I fail to see how that warrants a full article. A well developed section at List of Middle-earth Elves, okay. However, right now we have some sources analyzing the marriage in the context of the book and the writing process behind him. As shown in the GNG,
"Presumed" means that significant coverage in reliable sources establishes a presumption, not a guarantee, that a subject is suitable for inclusion.

As such, having topics that discuss it in detail in universe to me shows that it might be kept, but it is up to consensus. There are quite a few editors (including myself) who believe that information about the writing of a rather minor character in one of the most popular series ever written should have a higher standard of real-world notability to avoid having too many articles. This seems to have precedent; Cho Chang (main character in HP5, supporting in three others) redirects to Dumbledore's Army, Yuffie Kisaragi (one of seven playable characters in FF7, and supporting character in FF7-verse]] redirects to Characters of the Final Fantasy VII series, and Míriel Serindë (wife of Finwë, as noted above) redirects to List of Middle-earth Elves#Míriel, even though they all had their own page once upon a time. Crisco 1492 (talk) 00:14, 7 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I have not only shown that the subject of the article was notable but that it was suitable for a standalone article. There is largely enough reliable secondary sources to make a full fledged encyclopedic article satisfying all the relevant policies. It may be that the article can be merged, but that is an editorial matter, out of AFD scope. AFD is here to determine suitability for a standalone article, not for whether a merge is appropriate. I'm not aware of any stricter standard for fictional elements of popular works of fiction. Also, other stuff exists. Cenarium (talk) 14:07, 7 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

~~Other stuff is useful for showing precedent. Previously, things have happened like this. They may not here, but they previously have.~~ Crisco 1492 (talk) 10:05, 8 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Other stuff is an argument that argues that an article should be kept or deleted because another exists or does not. For example, the Pokemon test was essentially an other stuff argument, like "Keep. If Rattata has it's own article, this should too." I am trying to argue that other actions have been taken before, setting precedent. If precedent were not allowed, the would be no point in referring to the Common outcomes when nominating articles for deletion. Crisco 1492 (talk) 12:30, 8 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

We're not bound by precedent, consensus can change. That being said, you have not shown in any way that there exists a "precedent" for requiring higher standards for a fictional element when it is part of a 'popular' fictional universe. Míriel Serindë didn't go to AFD, it was an editorial merge. Yuffie Kisaragi didn't go to AFD either, it was an editorial merge. The suitability for a standalone article on those has never been tested. Cho Chang was the subject of one AFD, Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Cho Chang, which resulted in speedy keep; it was later editorially merged. A topic may well be worthy as a standalone article but for editorial reasons better if merged somewhere, but this is not what AFD determines. The present topic is clearly suitable for inclusion as a standalone article, whether it should be merged on editorial grounds is not the question of this AFD, and even so the argument that you seem to make for it, that is WP:PAPER, does not credit your position since the relevant policies are satisfied. There's no question regarding notability, and there is much to be said beyond just plot information: the analysis of the marriage as a societal topic (not just within the universe), that Tolkien intended this story arc to be included in the Silmarillon, the creation and evolution of the characters, etc are more than 'just plot'. Cenarium (talk) 10:20, 9 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so a clearer consensus may be reached.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Spartaz ^Humbug! 02:52, 9 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Comment On Crisco 1492's comment a few paragraphs back. How does one decide if there are too many articles? Wikipedia is not a paper encyclopedia. One valid criterion would be that they are blocking up the name space, but this is not the case here. The main resource bottleneck is in fact editor time, and trying to delete harmless articles (those that do not contain false and misleading information) that other people want to keep does waste this valuable resource. We all have our own different views as to what is more important, but there clearly is not a consensus that we gain anything by deleting articles like this one. Francis Bond (talk) 04:49, 9 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Indeed it is not, and it can never be perfected. My main argument for deletion / merger (I'm open to that) is that this article may not be notable enough to warrant its own article, per WP:NOTJUSTPLOT. However, one of the reasons why the notability criteria is in place is to limit the number of articles. We could not be considered an encyclopedia if we had an article on, for example, myself, no matter what somewhat impressive things I've done; I am not notable enough yet. Although Wikipedia's standards of notability may be lower than paper encyclopedias, they still exist and are ironically notable on their own. Crisco 1492 (talk) 06:56, 9 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Straying slightly from Finwe. If we look at a standard definition of Encyclopedia a reference work (often in several volumes) containing articles on various topics (often arranged in alphabetical order) dealing with the entire range of human knowledge or with some particular specialty (from WordNet, but other dictionaries have similar definitions, the only meaningful difference I have seen is that sometimes a definition adds "written by experts"). Wikipedia's notability criteria are purely an internal thing. I think the main practical reason is to restrict the number of pages we have to verify and patrol for vandalism. There is also a prestige issue, with some people feeling that to much trivia somehow cheapens the whole collection of knowledge, but that argument basically reduces to WP:IDON'TLIKEIT. Encyclopedia Britannica had to carefully choose articles because it paid people to write them and paid to print them. We don't have those costs. Returning to Finwe, he is a minor character in a major work, but one who is important to several of the philosophical issues that stand behind the work. Wikipedia's minimum standard of notability is "discussion in multiple reliable third-party sources" and Finwe is over that bar. I see absolutely no benefit to Wikipedia in shifting the information about him to another page and redirecting there (merging) or deleting it. Sorry to go on for so long, I also care about precedent, and I am hoping I can persuade you, and others, to preserve a little more and delete a little less. Francis Bond (talk) 09:22, 9 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Hear, hear. Note also, the Foundation's concern about declining participation in Wikipedia which is the subject of a current banner notice. The discussion there indicates that aggressive deletionism is a factor in driving editors away and we should be sensitive to this concern. Tolkien is a major author whose works are the subject of detailed and continuing scholarship. There are numerous third party encyclopedia and reference works which detail aspects of those works such as this and so it is proper for us to summarise their findings. Moving material about from one place to another is unproductive and not the purpose of AFD, which is to delete items which have no value at all. Colonel Warden (talk) 09:53, 9 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Delete Doing a quick search engine test, I did not find reliable third-party sources independent of the subject to presume notability. In reliable sources, I only found trivial mentions, which, in my opinion, do not show that the topic meets the general notability guideline by itself since most of them are analysis of Tolkien's work as a whole, not about the individual fictional character. Within the article, there are only two sources, one of them a primary source, and none of them amounts more than a plot-description, which does not show how is this character notable in a real-world context. Most of the sources that I found are about the plot of Tolkien's work, not about the fictional character Finwë. I have yet to find a reliable source that addresses in detail the fictional character Finwë with more than one paragraph or that at least talks about the relevance of the character outside of Tolkien's work. Tolkien works are notable, as demonstrated by the many literary criticism essays, but notability is not inherited to every content fork. Per the policy what Wikipedia is not, since this article is a plot-only description of a fictional work with no real-world context or sourced analysis and I do not believe that there is evidence that shows that the fictional character itself meets the general notability guideline, I do not think that the article should be kept. Jfgslo (talk) 23:53, 9 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Comment could you also address the sources that have been identified during this debate? Francis Bond (talk) 01:16, 10 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Sure, no problem. I will omit the first eight mentioned in the first keep comment since Crisco 1492 has already pointed out that they are just passing reference or rehash of information found in first party sources and also the ones in De728631's comment since plot descriptions do not show notability. Hits within a book are in no way a measure of the quality of the references, and passing mentions from a plot-only point of view also do not show notability.

The ones that I have verified do not talk about the fictional character. For example, J.R.R. Tolkien: myth, morality, and religion by Richard Purtill doesn't address the fictional character and it's barely mentioned in page 166 in reference to Fëanor, but not in a real-world context.

In I Am in Fact a Hobbit: An Introduction to the Life and Works of J. R. R. Tolkien by Perry C. Bramlett, Finwë is only mentioned in one paragraph and in regards to his marriage with Míriel and, in fact, it is only used as an example of the real subject of the text, Tolkien's works and how he explored some topics. Same with Tolkien in the land of heroes: discovering the human spirit by Anne C. Petty. Note that none of these books cover the fictional character in detail or give analysis of it, they only mention the character as an example of Tolkien's work and even then it is not in detail.

Arda reconstructed: the creation of the published Silmarillion by Douglas Charles Kane once again does not treat the character significance in a real-world perspective but instead it is a description of how Tolkien developed the Silmarillion and how the concepts came to be, such as the Finwë and Míriel story. Using this as an example of the character notability is the same as saying that any concept that was developed in the Silmarillion is notable. Similarly, The evolution of Tolkien's mythology: a study of The history of Middle-earth is once again an account of the history behind the creation of Tolkien's work and again does not show how Finwë is notable in a real-world context.

So, the sources given here and in the article in discussion in this AfD don't show how the character is notable outside of Tolkien's work. The concept and creation accounts do not show notability in any way, they are merely a description of how the fictional character was created, which is the only thing that is supported in the sources cited here or in the article.

More importantly, none of the cited sources gives a detailed review of the fictional character without relying on explaining it from the perspective of the plot of the books. This, in my opinion, shows that Tolkien's books are the notable ones and that this character, Finwë, is not notable outside of them and, therefore, does not have real-world significance by himself, contrary to Frodo Baggins who is easily referenced from a real-world perspective without relying on the plot of the books and for whom sources that aren't related to analysis of Tolkien's work are available. Jfgslo (talk) 14:40, 10 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Comment. This discussion confuses significance, which virtually no fictional constructs have in the "real world," and "real world" notability (as opposed to "in-universe" notability.) Aquaman and John Steed have precious little if any "real world significance" either, but they are notable because of the third party coverage satisfying the GNG. Much of the coverage dismissed here by Jfgslo is precisely the sort of coverage that demonstrates notability; the coverage described from "Arda reconstructed" -- exposition of "how the concepts came to be, such as the Finwë and Míriel story" -- is almost a paradigm of what we look for regarding fictional characters. To dismiss the coverage by saying that accepting it as indicating notabilitywould be "the same as saying that any concept that was developed in the Silmarillion is notable" is just wrong -- it is the same as saying that any concept whose development in the (various evolving stages of) the Silmarillion is covered by reliable third-party sources is notable, and that's virtually a tautology. Hullaballoo Wolfowitz (talk) 18:13, 10 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Let me remind you that Wikipedia treats fiction in an encyclopedic manner, discussing the reception and significance of notable works and that significant coverage in reliable sources establishes a presumption, not a guarantee, that a subject is suitable for inclusion. If no sources provide real-world context then articles are plot-only descriptions of a fictional work, which is not material for Wikipedia. "Almost a paradigm of what we look for regarding fictional characters" according to whom?

Also, comparing how other articles treat fictional characters has nothing to do with the individual merit of this one (see WP:OTHERSTUFF). John Steed is a terrible example since his article is in terrible shape and in fact doesn't show reasons to be kept. Aquaman's notability is not particularly well established in his article either, which is why it is not a good article, but it can be inferred that it has notability since the character is recognizable outside of its original medium as shown in Aquaman in popular media. Is Finwë known outside of anything related to it's original medium? If you want to compare Finwë to other fictional characters in Wikipedia, then I would recommend to use Superman, which shows real-world context for his notability. The sources provided within the article and here show that Finwë is only notable within the fictional work. He is merely a character in Tolkien's work, no more notable than others fictional characters that are not known outside of their original stories. All these cited sources only show that Tolkien's work is the subject of several literary criticism studies, but they still don't show that Finwë is notable as a fictional character instead of just a plot-point in Tolkien's work. And if a fictional character doesn't have significance outside of their original work, then they should not have an article. In my opinion, the fictional character does not meet WP:GNG because all sources provided are either trivial mentions or do not treat the character (the subject of the sources cited here is the development of Tolkien's work, "Finwë and Míriel story" at best, but not the fictional character) and it also is not suitable for inclusion in the encyclopedia per WP:PLOT, as I also mentioned in my original rationale for deletion. Jfgslo (talk) 00:29, 12 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

That line of argumentation is totally unsupported by policy. It seems you are trying to push for some concept of "real world notability, requiring real world significance", but the community never endorsed anything like that; and even rejected specific fiction notability guidelines along those lines (not even that drastic it seems). The only notability that matters is WP:GNG, and this is satisfied, I don't see how this point can be disputed; you may not see it after a "quick search engine test", but the sources cited above prove it.

Now, in addition to this, articles should be able to satisfy relevant content policies, such as WP:PLOT but this is distinct of notability. Then again, there are sources which can provide for more than just plot information. The article can discuss the reception and significance of the character: there has been commentaries, of sociological nature regarding the remarriage (cf Tolkien: myth, morality, and religion, Mythprint, etc), criticism for not including more of it in the Silmarillion (cf Arda reconstructed), many commentaries regarding the importance of the character in Tolkien's mythology (his story with Miriel is called an 'important element' by companion & guide), which is a literary subject of its own, so definitely "real-world". Cenarium (talk) 17:50, 12 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

And as I said, neither the sources here nor the ones within the article show that it covers the WP:GNG, because Finwë as an individual fictional character is not the subject of the literary analysis works in any of these. At best, the one thing that's analyzed is "Finwë and Míriel story" as a whole. In fact, the "Concept and creation" section of the article doesn't treat Finwë's creation but how in the different drafts he had different children. The main claim of notability is that the character has several Google hits within books that analyze Tolkien's work without taking into consideration whether the hits are for trivial mentions or not. The ones that aren't trivial mentions are for "Finwë and Míriel story", which shows notability for that, not for the individual characters. None of the sources provide here or in the article address Finwë in detail and per the WP:GNG, "significant coverage" means that sources address the subject directly in detail and it is more than a trivial mention, so I still don't see how these sources somehow provide evidence of presumed notability. As you exemplified, it is Finwë's marriage with Miriel the one thing that is notable according to the sources provided, not the individual fictional character Finwë. Jfgslo (talk) 13:23, 13 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

But WP:GNG says also that "Significant coverage is more than a trivial mention but it need not be the main topic of the source material." Significant coverage does not at all mean that we need a Finwe-only coverage but it is sufficient if the character has been significantly mentioned and partially analysed in secondary texts. And that criterion is clearly met here with the sources provided above. De728631 (talk) 19:52, 13 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

You are forgetting the first part, which specifically says that significant coverage means that sources address the subject directly in detail. The main subject of the sources is Tolkein's work and the subtopic that is addressed in detail in some of the sources is Finwë and Míriel story, which does receive some real-world context regarding the relationship between the two characters. Finwë, the fictional character, is not the subject of anything more than trivial mentions. If anything, some sources merely repeat part of the plot of The Silmarillion when mentioning Finwë, which makes them redundant and does not constitute analysis of the character, more in line with other fictional minor characters such as Mary Watson in Sherlock Holmes's books. So I do not think that the fictional character Finwë as a subject meets the criteria of the WP:GNG at all, much less WP:PLOT. Jfgslo (talk) 04:12, 16 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

The primary claim of notability of Finwë rests indeed in the "Finwë and Miriel story", as the sources define it. But you forget that the meaning of "directly in detail" is specified by what follows, i.e. "so no original research is needed to extract the content"; and clearly no original research is needed to extract content on the topic of Finwë as a fictional character from the coverage by the sources on the topic of the Finwë and Míriel story (Finwë, with Míriel, being, as one might imagine, the main subjects of it, and as can be verified in the examples of coverage provided, for example the subject of Finwë's remarriage directly concerns Finwë, the commentators consider his decision in light of its mortal status, etc). If you do maintain your point though, then I suggest the best way to address that is by creating (or moving Finwe to) an article on Finwë and Míriel, which may indeed be an improvement; but already as a topic, Finwë is acceptable. Cenarium (talk) 01:51, 21 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

You are also forgetting that coverage in reliable sources establishes a presumption, not a guarantee, that a subject is suitable for inclusion, per the WP:GNG, and the sources that talk about Finwë do it so from a plot perspective, which makes them WP:PLOT, material that falls into what Wikipedia is not. Certainly, that wouldn't be OR, just repeating plot. Other sources only talk about the drafts of Finwë and Míriel story. So, the sources merely repeat information from the plot or the drafts (in which Finwë and Míriel story is the subject), but do not give any kind of real-world context regarding the reception or significance of Finwë as an individual character, so it is not a subject suitable for inclusion because it falls into WP:NOT. The current article reflects this, since it does not provide significance or reception for Finwë as an individual character. In fact, the article provides real-world significance for Finwë and Míriel story (relying on primary sources by the way), not Finwë, which means that it is extrapolating the significance of Finwë and Míriel story to the individual character Finwë, even though Finwë does not have significance by himself. Even if you believe that Finwë as an individual fictional character meets the WP:GNG, if the sources cannot provide reception and significance for the fictional character, then the character does not need to be included in Wikipedia. And discussing a character's decision from a plot-perspective is not reception or significance. And, by the way, I do not believe that Finwë and Míriel story deserves an article either, even if the concept shows notability, because that would be a complete exposition of all possible details regarding the Silmarillion instead of a summary of accepted knowledge. Jfgslo (talk) 14:58, 21 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

WP:PLOT merely rules out articles that only consist of plot summaries. But the current article has two sections that inform on the literary concept and on the significance of the Finwe and Miriel story with regard to the literary evolution of Tolkien's entire legendarium. This does of course reference the plot of the Silmarillion but it doesn't fall under WP:PLOT. Instead the two out-of-universe sections provide reliable external views on the subject. De728631 (talk) 16:53, 21 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

As you mentioned, two sections, one of which does not treat Finwë as the topic and which is the one that shows significance for the fictional work, equating Finwë and Míriel story with Finwë, the individual character. The other section provides the concept and creation of Finwë's family, not even even Finwë himself, nothing related to the character's reception or significance. WP:PLOT is clear when it says that Wikipedia treats fiction in an encyclopedic manner, discussing the reception and significance of notable works, and there is nothing of the sort for the individual fictional character by himself. It is always Finwë and Míriel story as a whole the subject that shows presumption of reception and significance. And I already mentioned what I think about Finwë and Míriel story. Jfgslo (talk) 14:57, 22 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

But the Finwë and Míriel story is a particular aspect of the topic of Finwë as fictional character. I really don't see how you can argue that the story of a fictional character is unrelated to that fictional character. Sources may focus their attention on a particular aspect of Finwë as fictional character, but it certainly constitutes valid coverage for assessing notability. Independently of this AFD, for editorial reasons, it may be better to have the article Finwë and Míriel and redirect Finwë and Míriel there, but this is not a reason to delete Finwë. And again, WP:PLOT requires that there exists some valid non-plot coverage on the topic (which exists in this case), certainly not that only non-plot coverage is valid for notability-assessment purposes; the satisfaction of WP:PLOT is totally distinct of notability considerations. Cenarium (talk) 17:22, 23 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Merge to House of Finwe. Cenarium's analysis is sound, and there's no solid basis for deletion, but the article as currently presented is rather skimpy, and the content probably would be more useful both to casual users and to Tolkien devotees if placed into an article providing a broader perspective. If the article can be expanded to more solidly establish the significance of the character within Tolkien's cosmology, or if the history character's conception could be expanded, it would be easier to sustain a discrete article, but in any event the content should be kept. Hullaballoo Wolfowitz (talk) 03:10, 10 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Keep per Cenarium. If there is not a consensus for that view, I think that List of Middle-earth Elves or House of Finwe are reasonable merge targets. This should not be a red link as it is a plausible search term (e.g. he has an entry in Robert Foster's Complete Guide to Middle-earth). Eluchil404 (talk) 07:06, 10 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Weak delete or weak merge to either House of Finwe or The Silmarillion. This is coming from a Tolkien fan too. I agree with Crisco, where a lot of more important characters in their respective works do not have their own article, but it's obviously WP:OTHERSTUFFDOESNTEXIST. Finwe, while important to the history of Middle Earth, is not important in the real world. Most third party are really only referencing the work, and many have admitted that Finwe is only mentioned in passing. The only really valid source is The J. R. R. Tolkien Companion and Guide, mentioned previously. Because of this reference, merge is a possible option instead of a delete. --Wirbelwindヴィルヴェルヴィント (talk) 19:50, 10 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Clarification -- The J. R. R. Tolkien Companion and Guide actually relates Finwe to the real world, claiming it to be an important element of mythology. The The evolution of Tolkien's mythology: a study of The history of Middle-earth might be a valid source as well, but I haven't read the chapter on Finwe to say for sure. --Wirbelwindヴィルヴェルヴィント (talk) 19:58, 10 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Keep I agree with the points made by Cenarium. /Julle (talk) 15:55, 11 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so a clearer consensus may be reached.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, -- Cirt (talk) 04:20, 16 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Keep all major characters in Tolkien's writings are notable , not just the ones in LOTR. Christopher Tolkien's books about his father's work are good secondary sources DGG ( talk ) 05:14, 16 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Comment Why does this keep getting relisted? Concensus is keep. AfD hero (talk) 10:13, 16 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

If that is the consensus (Personally I think that it isn't yet... quite a few good arguments from both the keeps and the deletes/merges), it may not be clear enough; hence the relisting ("so a clearer consensus may be reached". Crisco 1492 (talk) 13:24, 16 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

If the concensus had been the other way around, it would have been deleted without a relisting. This creates an imbalance where "concensus" is judged more harshly for keeping articles than for deleting them. AfD hero (talk) 22:41, 16 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

If the consensus has been reached. As I noted above, I don't think there is a clear consensus yet; although it is clear that there will not be an out-and-out deletion, a merger is still a possibility and has many strong arguments for it. The keeps also have strong arguments. Crisco 1492 (talk) 23:27, 16 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Relisting should be only for pages which received little comment initially. Unclear consensus should default to 'Keep'. --12.42.51.27 (talk) 11:57, 17 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Keep I think there are enough sources to justify an article here. Qrsdogg (talk) 03:21, 18 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Delete Article is based primarily on Christopher Tolkien's books about his father's work, which are not independent sources as required under WP:GNG and WP:V, and can't be used to WP:verify notability. Shooterwalker (talk) 12:58, 18 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Comment Wikipedia's guidelines for independence state ""Independent of the subject" excludes works produced by those affiliated with the subject including (but not limited to): self-publicity, advertising, self-published material by the subject, autobiographies, press releases, etc.". The History of Middle Earth is a collection of scholarly analyses of Tolkien's work, including much hitherto unpublished material. Specifically, they are examples of "books published by respected publishing houses" WP:SOURCES. There is absolutely no problem in using them to WP:verify notability. Francis Bond (talk) 14:35, 18 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Comment The article is partly based on Christopher Tolkien's books. The other sources would be sufficient even if these were discounted. I agree with Francis regarding History of Middle-earth. Any interpretation of the rules that says that a series of 12 lengthy books released by a major publisher over a 13-year period (and that have remained in print to the present day) do not count towards notability is wrong. I'd have some sympathy with an argument that you can't get a neutral perspective by only examining Christopher Tolkien's work (the article doesn't do this, btw), but that's not the point under discussion. 4u1e (talk) 18:32, 18 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Comment. While Christopher Tolkien's works may be considered to have been written independently of the original works, I don't think we can consider them to be independent enough to prove notability. Second-party sources at best, maybe. Crisco 1492 (talk) 09:45, 22 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was no consensus. (non-admin closure) Baseball Watcher 23:48, 17 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Linda McLean

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Found a few trivial mentions for this singer/songwriter but not enough to meet GNG and I don't believe any of her accomplishments approach MUSICBIO. J04n(talk page) 17:15, 24 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

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Comment–The article editor named Linda Snefjella may be an alias for Linda McLean.[73]—RJH (talk) 17:48, 25 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Keep. Per WP:BAND #5. McLean has signed to the European label Rounder Records. The artist has received recognition in Canada as evidenced by the Exclaim! review [74]. The article needs TLC not Deletion. I have started with structuring the article and the addition of a Template:Infobox musical artist. Argolin (talk) 08:25, 28 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so a clearer consensus may be reached.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Ron Ritzman (talk) 00:01, 1 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Delete per nom. No claim of notability. Keb25 (talk) 00:36, 2 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Comment. At this point, claim of notability is WP:BAND #5. Argolin (talk) 04:31, 2 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so a clearer consensus may be reached.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Spartaz ^Humbug! 02:42, 9 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. Owen× ☎ 18:11, 16 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Secondhand obesity

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Neologism with little notability beyond political posturing. Article was started with a passing reference to a political talk show as its only "source". Shortly thereafter, two weak sources were added: a forum posting to a "smoker's rights" site griping about "nanny state" issues and an obesity group discussing causes of obesity (without really saying anything relevant to this article). No reliable sources provided or found. Not notable. SummerPhD (talk) 02:10, 9 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Delete - as WP:NEOLOGISM --CliffC (talk) 02:44, 9 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Delete Agree --Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 03:28, 9 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete. There is research in this area, but this term is of new coinage. JFW | T@lk 09:04, 9 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Keep IDONTLIKEIT-motivated nomination. this and this reference prove its notability. There are enough coverage in google news search --Reference Desker (talk) 00:42, 12 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- Comment - My motivation was lack of notability. Your first link give me a notice that the viewing limit has been exceeded. The second one tells us that "there was no concept of passive smoking, let alone 'passive drinking' or 'secondhand obesity'", which hardly seems like meaningful coverage of the concept, IMO. If you feel there is enough coverage in a google search, please provide the sources you are finding in that search. Thanks. - SummerPhD (talk) 01:12, 12 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was redirect to International Brigades#Data. NW (Talk) 01:35, 10 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

International Brigades data

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All of this could be in the main article and the main article is itself "data". —Justin (koavf)❤T☮C☺M☯ 02:00, 9 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

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Speedy merge to International_Brigades#Data; clear overlap, nothing lost in merging, I don't think we need to wait the full week for this one. Skomorokh 07:08, 9 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Delete. I've updated (and checked the sources) for the table in International Brigades with all the sourced data from here. This is now pretty much redundant. Roger Davies ^talk 12:32, 9 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Merge and Delete: redundant. Since Roger has already merged, we can kill it, as it has no value as a redirect. bahamut0013^words _deeds 20:55, 9 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. Ron Ritzman (talk) 00:20, 16 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Ordering flowers

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This is a how-to; not something we do. It has, unsurprisingly, also become a spam magnet. Orange Mike | Talk 01:40, 9 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete as commercial spam. Not an encyclopedic topic, nor a useful list. Carrite (talk) 04:23, 9 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Delete per nomination. - Smerdis of Tlön - killing the human spirit since 2003! 14:43, 9 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Delete per nomination and WP:ADVERT. Well written, organized, and referenced but nonetheless it's still industry spamming timed very conveniently for Mother's Day. Mariepr (talk) 01:52, 10 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Delete per nom --Σ _☭^★ 02:10, 11 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was keep. ~~No arguments for deletion aside from the nominator.~~ The closer is a dumbass but the consensus is to keep. Ron Ritzman (talk) 00:22, 16 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Erdős–Bacon number

AfDs for this article:

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Article is nothing but a listing of nonnotable trivia related to an offshoot of two other bits of trivia. The cvast majority of the content is original research, and the sources used for that original research are IMDB, the "oracle of Bacon" and others that fail WP:RS quite dramatically. The sources used that count per Wikipedia standard are used to source information other than tje Erdos-Bacon number and do not in any way demonstrate the notability of this this topic. DreamGuy (talk) 01:38, 9 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Keep - I would agree that IMDb is not a reliable source for trivia, movie goofs, etc., but their cast lists are not user-submitted and have editorial oversight. The great majority of IMDb cast lists are taken from the film itself (just as Wikipedia plot summaries are taken from the film itself) and/or directly from the movie producers. "Oracle of Bacon" is simply a computer program that calculates Bacon numbers based on the IMDb cast lists, and is easily verifiable by checking the links through IMDb. Most of the Erdős connections are acquired through an academic database. It is not "nonnotable trivia" because all of the items have a common connection that is rare and interesting. As was said on Talk:Natalie Portman (who has a finite EB number), her EB number certainly isn't the most notable aspect of her life, but it adds a dimension that makes her a far more interesting actress to many of us. It's certainly as notable as Lindsay Lohan's bisexual experimentation and illegal escapades, and I don't see very many people jumping up and down to try to remove that non-notable trivia. EB number isn't the most notable article on Wikipedia, but we have to ask ourselves: will we attract a broad spectrum of readers (and, in turn, new editors) with dry articles that make those in academia happy, or will we allow some well-sourced articles that have a broader appeal. Cresix (talk) 01:53, 9 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

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Keep. The number of books and news articles referring to this concept, while not very large, is enough to convince me that it passes WP:GNG. Being inherently inaccurate is not a deletion rationale. It doesn't matter whether the oracle of Bacon is itself a reliable source, because the article isn't (or shouldn't be) sourced by the oracle, it's about information from the oracle. And yes, it's a bit silly, but then I just spent the last few minutes improving paper fortune teller; silliness isn't a deletion rationale either. —David Eppstein (talk) 03:51, 9 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Keep. The term is quite well known[75]. If there are poor examples (I think one guy on the list claims his Erdos number from a patent application), those can be dealt with, but the article should exist and should mention people like Natalie Portman and Brian Greene who very legitimately have finite Erdos-Bacon numbers. Oh, and if the Erdos and Bacon numbers are suitably documented, adding them isn't an OR violation. The people who keep complaining about this article are just jealous because they don't have one. (Can't blame them for that, I'm jealous too; just don't see it as grounds to delete.) 76.244.155.165 (talk) 06:17, 9 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Keep as notable. Additional sources: Haunsperger, Deanna; Kennedy, Stephen (2007). The Edge of the Universe: Celebrating Ten Years of Math Horizons. MAA spectrum. Mathematical Association of America. p. 76. ISBN 0883855550. International journal of advertising. 27 (1–2): 334. 2008. {{cite journal}}: Missing or empty |title= (help) Sergeant Cribb (talk) 17:01, 9 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Disclosure: My Erdos-Bacon number is 6. Sergeant Cribb (talk) 17:07, 9 May 2011 (UTC) [reply]

Keep as topic meets criteria of WP:N. Schmidt, ^{MICHAEL Q.} 20:53, 9 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Keep It is notable and of general interest. Hilmar (talk) 22:06, 9 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Keep Because it's a real thing that is now a part of culture. Also please stop modelling wikipedia in terms of the limitations of a paper encyclopedia. I don't mean to troll or anything but I don't see any rationale in deleting something simply because not everyone knows about it. This article is not spam or an ad, and it's not some esoteric trivia about an RPG game or something, so keep! If that makes me an inclusionist, so be it. Alex.g (talk) 04:29, 10 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Keep - well written and well sourced article on clearly notable subject. Gandalf61 (talk) 13:36, 10 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Keep - notable, used even in scientific papers. RedAndr (talk) 03:14, 12 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Delete as utterly trivial (but keep Erdos number). Xxanthippe (talk) 23:35, 12 May 2011 (UTC).[reply]
Keep – somewhat trivial indeed, the topic is clearly notable, and that is what counts. --Lambiam 23:18, 14 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was merge to Ocean Beach, San Francisco, California. Spartaz ^Humbug! 14:18, 18 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Ocean Beach Public Policy

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Non-notable topic, full of original research and items with limited relationships to each other. What little (if any) of this is actually encyclopedic, belongs in the actual article Ocean Beach, San Francisco, California. Orange Mike | Talk 01:35, 9 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Keep This article is being developed and already has 13 references. Public planning for the environmental protection of Ocean Beach is an important and notable issue in San Francisco. In addition, "this article is the subject of an educational assignment at University of San Francisco supported by WikiProject United States Public Policy and the Wikipedia Ambassador Program during the Spring 2011 term." It would be a negative to this important educational outreach program to delete this article at this time. Disclosure: I am a volunteer with the Wikipedia Ambassador Program, and participated in a presentation to the class that is working on this and other public policy articles. Cullen328 (talk) 01:46, 9 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Delete. Nom's reasoning is sound. Niteshift36 (talk) 02:11, 9 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Delete as lacking widespread notability. I can certainly imagine a paragraph about this topic in a more general article about the area or maybe about related issues. Per nom, seems like it's reeeeeally stretching to find substantial independent coverage on the specific topic itself rather than editors' synthesis to make articles on the issues related to it seem related enough to support the notability of this specific topic. I could envision several more general "public policy and the environment" articles that could therefore draw articles on multiple implementations and higher-level relationships, but the focus here (this policy-set for this location) doesn't seem like it can stand as its own article. AfD is a week long, so hopefully the students can dig up some broader refs that still mention this actual location/policy to illustrate notability, and I'd happily re-evaluate. DMacks (talk) 02:49, 9 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

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Comment. I agree that some of the sections in this article are problematic. The section "Access and Connectivity" consists of history of the beach (better relegated to the article on the beach) followed by speculation ("a possible shift"). Most of the section "Coastal Dynamics & Climate Change" discusses climate change broadly and is more appropriate for that article, while the part about the Oceanside Wastewater Treatment Plant is more relevant to the article on the beach. The suggested solutions for the Great Highway problem in the "Infrastructure" section are not clearly sourced to a third party and so currently run afoul of Wikipedia:No original research (the factual information in that section seems fine). The material in the sections "History/Background", "Program & Uses", and "Management & Stewardship" seem less problematic and I think they could remain, either as an article or as a section in the article on the beach. Disclosure: I'm in the Ambassador program and was asked to examine this discussion by another Ambassador. I'm not particularly knowledgable in the area of public policy. Dcoetzee 04:11, 9 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

*Comment - Article may violate WP:ADVOCATE, as it appears to not be very well balanced with all points of view that may fall under this topic. That being said, the article's references need to be checked to see if they meet WP:RS guidelines. Presently I do not see a reason to delete or not delete the article. The title itself brings up very few google hits, there for it makes me question the notability of the subject. However if one were to group "Ocean Beach" and "Public Policy" separately, one gets 145K google hits. --RightCowLeftCoast (talk) 18:31, 9 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Comment Thank you all for your comments. Just a little bit of background about the purpose of this article: Students in my graduate environmental law class were asked to write public policy articles for a federal, state, or local policy for Wikipedia's Public Policy Initiative. My partner and I chose a local public policy because we felt that this type of situation is under represented, both on Wikipedia and in the broader public policy arena in general, and so would be helpful for practitioners, students, and the general public alike. The article also makes an important connection between coastal management and climate change, which will be an area of increasing importance as climate change begins to affect vulnerable coastlines throughout the world (as it already has in San Francisco and many other areas), and something that both policy makers and voters alike will need to take into consideration in the near future. San Francisco is currently going through a challenging and unprecedented coastal management crisis that other coastal cities either are, or will be, going through soon, and I feel the more information available regarding this subject, the better. That being said, I have no problem if the consensus feels that the article should be moved to the Ocean Beach page, or needs further editing, but complete deletion seems somewhat extreme? This is my first time writing anything for Wikipedia, but I honestly thought the way it worked was that everyone contributes by either writing or editing articles, not just deleting something that you think needs to be edited? If that is the case then I don't see the point of people taking the time to write articles if they are deleted right away without a real opportunity to be edited/revised. Amybekah (talk) 23:32, 11 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

"Delete" votes often imply that the material should be merged if there is a suitable target. I think the rationale that's behind typing 'Delete' is that an AfD for one article cannot decide what happens to another article, we can only decide what happens to this one. (Though it is common to see people voting "merge" as well, so maybe I'm just wrong.) —Soap— 00:02, 12 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Merge & Delete - Thanks for the comment. After reading it, my opinion has changed that this article violates WP:ADVOCATE, and that all non-news references should be checked against WP:RS standards. The material that is supported by the content that meets RS standards should be merged into the article regarding Ocean Beach. --RightCowLeftCoast (talk) 12:18, 13 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Selective merge to Ocean Beach, San Francisco, California, because the topic is not notable on its own. Sandstein 05:38, 18 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. -- Cirt (talk) 04:20, 16 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Andrew Mattock

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Weak claim of notability. Appears to fail WP:ARTIST. -- Mufka ^(u) ^(t) ^(c) 01:25, 9 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete. Fails WP:ARTIST and the article seems to be a personal ego boost for the subject. SteelIron^Talk 06:22, 12 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Delete no assertion of notability. Johnbod (talk) 16:32, 12 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. -- Cirt (talk) 04:20, 16 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

World sports karate federation

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A non notable martial arts organisation without any reliable third person sources to assert notability. Dwanyewest (talk) 01:09, 9 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete I found no independent sources supporting notability. Much of the article appears to be copied directly from the organization's web page (possibly a copyright violoation). Papaursa (talk) 00:10, 10 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Delete Unsourced article that gives no reasons why its subject is notable. I found no independent sources about this organization. Astudent0 (talk) 20:56, 10 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. Spartaz ^Humbug! 14:19, 18 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Uncle Yo

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This is my first AfD, so take my words with a grain of salt. But this appears to me to lack reliable secondary sources; given sources are from artist's web page, convention press releases reposted at anime news portals, and ~~two blogs~~ a blog of unknown significance. This article does not appear to meet the notability guidelines at WP:ENT. Khazar (talk) 01:01, 9 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Keep. As the article's creator, I suggested this AfD on article's talk page for a quick "trial by fire" to resolve the issue of notability (comments on reliability are welcome as well, but a bit outside the scope here). I believe that while the subject is relatively young and niche, he has achieved sufficient notability to be encyclopedic, as demonstrated by several mentions at Anime News Network, convention websites, several interviews (many in the podcast/video form), and several thousands google'able mentions. Having created over a 1,000 articles, I will agree that this is a bit of a borderline case, but I believe that this is on the correct side of the notability border (otherwise I wouldn't have wasted my time creating this bio... :>). This is not some wannabe with a youtube video and few local appearances, this is a professional that has been invited to numerous notable, regional/national and encyclopedic (if niche) events, and who was mentioned by numerous secondary (if online-only) sources. PS. I am still unsure where the nom sees two blogs, I see only one used once (for a minor fact from a blogged interview). I don't use blogs as sources, usually, but a recent blogged interview confirming a trivial fact seemed passable. --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| talk} 01:11, 9 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Quite right. Seeing double, apparently. 1,000 articles, btw? Kudos! -- Khazar (talk) 01:18, 9 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Yeah, the list takes a while to load, thanks. Now, two or three have been deleted, so I could be wrong this time too. I hope I am not, of course :) --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| talk} 01:19, 9 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Delete Article completely lacks any significant coverage from reliable third-party sources that are independent of the subject. Convention announcements about being the person as a guest are not significant overage nor are they completely independence of the subject. And interviews are definitely not independent of the subject. Number of Google hits is irrelevant. "demonstrated by several mentions at Anime News Network" actually turns up false as the person has received no coverage by ANN outside of its forms and press releases.[76] (click the news and views) Compare this to Man-Faye, who revived a lot more covarage[77] and appeared several times on national television (such as the The Tonight Show and Who Wants to Be a Superhero?), but still his article was deleted because the coverage he relieved wasn't of significant depth or independent enough from the subject. —Farix (t | c) 02:30, 9 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete. None of the independent coverage is from RS, and being the GOH at a con doesn't confer notability, as far as I know. Roscelese (talk ⋅ contribs) 07:49, 9 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Delete Non notable, fails WP:BIO. Paste _{Let’s have a chat.} 17:31, 11 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Request: if it is deleted, please userfy it in my userspace. Thanks, --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| talk} 15:27, 12 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Delete as subject lacks coverage in reliable third-party sources and thus fails to cross the notability threshold. Convention websites writing about their own guests are not third-party sources. - Dravecky (talk) 06:51, 18 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. Ron Ritzman (talk) 00:23, 16 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

World Ju-Jitsu Federation Ireland

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A non notable martial arts organisation without reliable third person sources. Dwanyewest (talk) 00:57, 9 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Delete. Lack of substantial coverage by reliable third parties.Niteshift36 (talk) 02:08, 9 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete I found no independent and reliable sources to show this is a notable martial arts organization. Papaursa (talk) 00:05, 10 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Delete I found the same lack of sources as the others. Astudent0 (talk) 16:26, 10 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. Ron Ritzman (talk) 00:24, 16 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Ju-Jitsu African Union

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A non notable martial arts organisation without reliable third person sources. Dwanyewest (talk) 00:58, 9 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

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Very weak delete As part of the JJIF it seems like this relatively new organization should be notable, but I couldn't find independent sources when I searched the web. It should at least be worth a mention in the JJIF article. Astudent0 (talk) 16:58, 10 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Weak Delete I found no independent and reliable sources that support notability. The fact that it's a new sub-branch of the JJIF confers no notability (which is not inherited). Papaursa (talk) 22:04, 14 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. -- Cirt (talk) 22:42, 18 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Marnie Winston-Macauley

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Not notable; appears to fail WP:BIO and WP:GNG badly. Yes, she gets a lot of GBooks and GNews hits, but those are by her, not about her, and thus do not satisfy the guidelines. Article claims she was nominated for an Emmy and a WGA Award for her writing, but this isn't true; she was a member of a large writing team that was nominated for a Daytime Emmy, and I can't find anything on the supposed WGA nomination. Article contains one reference, a marriage announcement, which is obviously routine and does not confer notability. Roscelese (talk ⋅ contribs) 00:55, 9 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Note also that, going by the username of the article creator, it was written as a promotional piece by the subject's son. Roscelese (talk ⋅ contribs) 00:55, 9 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Strong keep Here's a source about the book by Marnie Winston-Macauley “Yiddishe Mamas:” The Truth about the Jewish Mother by Shayna Sheinfeld, McGill University, Montreal. It was published in Women in Judaism: A Multidisciplinary Journal. I am sure more sources could be found, and of course Marnie Winston-Macauley is notable enough to have her own article on Wikipedia. The article should be improved, not deleted.--Mbz1 (talk) 01:10, 9 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]
More sources:

The latter would not be significant even if it were independent, which it isn't - it's her employer announcing that she's been hired. The former is a fluff piece on "Valentine's Day Do's and Don'ts," not coverage of Winston-Macauley. The fact that these are the best sources you can find only confirms that she is not notable. Roscelese (talk ⋅ contribs) 23:59, 9 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I have no idea what you're trying to show me with that last link. Also, would it kill you to thread your comments normally so people can actually follow the conversation? Roscelese (talk ⋅ contribs) 02:15, 10 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

"Of course she is notable" is a claim, not an argument. You must find sources to prove notability, not just claim that notability is out there somewhere. Do you have any more sources? Roscelese (talk ⋅ contribs) 01:14, 9 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

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Putting this here because this conversation is fast becoming impossible to follow: Mbz1 has found two sources. Both are reviews of the same book, which appears to have been reviewed in no mainstream publications. Roscelese (talk ⋅ contribs) 02:15, 10 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Strong delete. The "cite" to the New York Times in the article is simply a wedding announcement of a couple of lines, nothing more. She's written some chatty advice books, and had or has an advice column, but utterly fails WP:AUTHOR. Not notable; article is an obvious "tribute piece" by a relative, and should be deleted and salted. – OhioStandard (talk) 08:45, 10 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete. The most prominent claim to notability here is that the subject was allegedly nominated for a Daytime Emmy in 1993 as a member of the writing team for As the World Turns. However, the book The Emmys by Thomas O'Neil does not list her among the writing team for that show which was nominated in that year. Nor is she listed as such in the Internet Movie Database -- in fact, she doesn't even have an IMDb entry. For all I know, maybe she was nominated for a Daytime Emmy in some other year or some other category, but if this article is wrong about this significant point, I'm not sure we can rely on it to be accurate about other matters. The article is barely referenced at all anyway, thus making it difficult to confirm the information therein. --Metropolitan90 (talk) 04:37, 16 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Delete. The sources proffered are highly misleading. There is no notability here, nothing to satisfy WP:BK or WP:AUTHOR or WP:CREATIVE, etc. Qworty (talk) 09:04, 17 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was no consensus. WP:NPASR. King of ♥ ♦ ♣ ♠ 18:21, 25 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Karin and Mirjam van Breeschooten

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Being a Playboy playmate does not make you and your twin sister notable. Being chosen Playmate of the Month or Playmate of the Year is not an award: It's a strategic commercial decision made by Playboy Corporation about how to better commercialize it products. Regardless of how much some Wikipedians love Playmates, we should write articles about them only when they were covered by independent third part sources. Also, texts solely related to their playmatehood are not the kind non-trivial coverage asked by the general notability criteria. Damiens.rf 01:42, 28 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Redirect to List of Playboy Playmates of 1989. Does not appear to be enough nontrivial reliably sourced content to justify an independent article. This has been the outcome of most recent AFD discussions for less prominent Playmates as well the way most recently named Playmates have been handled. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Hullaballoo Wolfowitz (talk • contribs)
Redirect No significant coverage found. Epbr123 (talk) 11:01, 28 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Redirect as per Hullaballoo Hasteur (talk) 15:19, 28 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Delete This should have been done after consensus determined Playmate-hood's non-notability. Other projects can cover this material, Wikipedia consensus has determined that Wikipedia is not that project. Should sourcing and claim of notability sufficient for Wikipedia later be found, the article can be re-started. Do NOT redirect. Redirecting non-notable articles to Listings of a subject which has been found to be non-notable is absurd. Playmate-hood, being inherently non-notable, does not prop up this article, nor can it prop up a List of playmates. Redirecting to non-notable lists only makes work for Admins who will have to delete these redirects later. Also, significantly, this is an inadequately-sourced BLP in a controversial area. Dekkappai (talk) 19:32, 28 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

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Procedural Keep - The use of automated tools for mass deletions should not be allowed against large blocks of articles which have already been patrolled at New Pages. It is, simply put, a violation of WP:BEFORE — due diligence is not being done when these tools are being used in this way. "Shoot them all and let the saps at AfD sort them out," is apparently the line of thinking. While I am personally sympathetic to the idea of a very high bar for so-called "Porn Bios," this blasting of 100 articles at the rate of 1 per minute, judging from the time logs, is not conducive to the spirit or practice of AfD. It is putting WP:I DON'T LIKE IT ahead of the established article deletion process and is disrespectful both to the work of article creators and those of us who volunteer our time at AfD. We have seen similar automated mass annihilation efforts recently against modern Trotskyist political organizations and against fraternities and sororities. The net result of these efforts was a lot of lost time by article creators and AfD participants and a lot of lost information from those articles annihilated as part of these campaigns. Meanwhile, the backlog of crap at New Pages festers. Something needs to be done about this problem. Mine is not a unique view — see Wikipedia:ANI#Massive_number_of_Playboy-related_AFD_nominations_by_a_single_user at ANI. We need to keep them all as a matter of principle and ban the future use of automated tools in this way. This argument will be copied-and-pasted in the debate sections for all automated AfDs of this campaign. Carrite (talk) 14:17, 4 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

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Procedural Keep Nomination was made in violation of a still active topic ban [78]. Monty ₈₄₅ 03:20, 14 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

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Keep per Carrite and Monty. As a second choice, redirect per Hullaballoo. --Metropolitan90 (talk) 03:25, 18 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Keep, topic-banned nominator. Chester Markel (talk) 05:12, 18 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Redirect per Hullaballoo. The procedural keep idea has some merit as a form of troutslap to the nom, but even so, nominating an article for deletion is only a violation of his topic ban on editing BLPs in a pretty technical sense. Since the article is here, and the nomination was not flagrant, it may as well be dealt with. Glenfarclas (talk) 05:24, 18 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Redirect to List of Playboy Playmates of 1989. That magazine's publisher does not have the authority to make their models notable by Wikipedia standards just by giving them some made-up title or featuring them in a nude photo with a staple through their middle. Fails to satisfy WP:BIO. Edison (talk) 16:33, 18 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Keep per Monty and Carrite, falls into category of those recently closed Keep by spartaz, without prejudice to renom.--Milowent • ^talkblp-r 21:11, 18 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Comment. This AFD differs from those closed by Spartaz; here there is significant discussion on the substance and no challenge to the claim that an independent article is not justified. We're not going to get a consistent set of outcomes here; other admins closed similar dissussions differently; let's just deal with the substantive issue. Hullaballoo Wolfowitz (talk) 21:40, 18 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. Wizardman _{Operation Big Bear} 18:48, 17 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Tobias Geye

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Nomination for PROD removed, no rationale given. No credible assertion of notability. Fails Wikipedia:Notability (people) section on "creative professionals". The only source found on Google Books is Books LLC rip-off of this very article. Wtshymanski (talk) 19:09, 25 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Keep Listed independently as the official artist of Toyota Grand Prix of Long Beach, published artist for Stray Cats, Joe Strummer, Social Distortion, and Blockage, as well as artist for Dice Magazine, the Hootenanny Festival among countless others. redacegarage (talk) 14:11, 26 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Noting the above user's sole contributions to Wikipedia are two edits - namely remove the article PROD and tagging, and contest the AFD. FT2 ^{(Talk | email)} 01:08, 16 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete. Classic non-notability via WP:GNG, fails notability of people. Of the claims in the article:

"Creating posters, album art and commissions" is what all artists do, no evidence of notability.
If works for Stray Cats, Social Distortion, Grand Prix or other clients were notable then there would be good evidence in reliable independent secondary sources but none are listed nor appear to exist based on a quick search.
If "places artwork is featured" were significant for our purposes there would be secondary coverage evidencing this.

FT2 ^{(Talk | email)} 01:05, 16 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete without prejudice. Poorly sourced BLP. Ron Ritzman (talk) 00:29, 16 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Naomi Preizler

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Minor model - mostly just a couple seasons of runway work. No Gnews hits or sources beyond FMD. Mbinebri ^{talk ←} 18:18, 25 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was no consensus with leave to speedy renominate. Ron Ritzman (talk) 00:31, 16 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Nedd Willard

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Bio for non-notable artist. He did some good works, but that's all. Damiens.rf 02:47, 25 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

The article should not be deleted. I've updated it with more information about this Notable person and a link to sources about his academic work. Sincerely, GeorgeLouis (talk) 06:40, 25 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

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Procedural Keep Nomination was made in violation of a still active topic ban [79]. Monty ₈₄₅ 03:20, 14 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. Wizardman _{Operation Big Bear} 23:15, 15 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Bantam Trek

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Appears to be a non-notable local event lacking GHit and GNEWS of substance. Appears to fail WP:EVENT and fail to establish notability. ttonyb (talk) 00:56, 2 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

It is an ongoing local (Bradford 6th largest city in the uk), officially backed by Bradford City FC a professional football league club in the 6th largest city. And also covered by The national and local media (the national being tv so as yet no citations from the bbc, but the local press is not just some small time village rag, it is the telegraph and argus. I could cite more but for fear of complaints of repetition). I can only assume that somebody who thinks that this is some small local event, is not from the uk. maybe somebody from the uk should get involved in deciding.Easybizsites (talk) 01:14, 2 May 2011 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Easybizsites (talk • contribs) 01:04, 2 May 2011 (UTC) — Easybizsites (talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic. Note: this username was blocked on May 2, 2011 per WP:GROUPNAME.[reply]

Another citation edited, all from verified sources that are impartial and not linked to Bantams Trek. Anything else needed? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Easybizsites (talk • contribs) 01:23, 2 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]
+++++KEEP+++++++ This should be removed from deletion. Organization raising money with on a non stop basis through a pro football club for a burns unit that does work world wide. Is not just a one off, and their sources are better than most on here. Preceding unsigned commented added by User:89.243.21.14 — 89.243.21.14 (talk) has made few or no other edits outside this topic.

Delete There does not seem to be any Reliable Source reporting on these charity walks, with the single exception of this from the Telegraph and Argus. All the other sources provided are self-referential. Nothing at all found at Google News Archive [80]. The fact that it raises money for a good cause is not reason enough to keep the article on Wikipedia; the event has to meet the requirements of notability, and it fails by a country mile. --MelanieN (talk) 21:31, 8 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was redirect to Jonathan Strange & Mr Norrell. Non-admin closure. Roscelese (talk ⋅ contribs) 16:55, 24 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Portia Rosenberg

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fails WP:CREATIVE and WP:BIO. gnews count is small and merely confirms she illustrated one book. [81]. LibStar (talk) 07:45, 2 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

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Redirect to Jonathan Strange & Mr Norrell. The book is highly notable, and her contribution to it could be expanded at that article (currently a mere mention). --MelanieN (talk) 19:15, 8 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

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Redirect per Melanie. Who knows, maybe a properly-written article might be justifiable, but if the creator can only be bothered to write one line, why research? Johnbod (talk) 11:38, 20 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. soft deletion Spartaz ^Humbug! 14:19, 18 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Move Under Ground

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Cannot find any reliable third party sources for this minor publication. The author is also under question as to notability. Jimsteele9999 (talk) 12:18, 2 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Redirect and merge anything worthwhile to the authors BLP. I can't see assertions in the current article that this book clears the hurdle of independant notability that is Wikipedia:Notability (books) - there are a couple of independent book reviews and another couple that are a blogspot and a live-journal posting, asserting such minimal notability that if this book is wiki notable then its likely that every book ever written is. Off2riorob (talk) 12:30, 2 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Comment. Agree with that course of action. I also don't think the author clears the hurdle of notability, but will leave other editors to decide.Jimsteele9999 (talk) 14:57, 2 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

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Comment. Book was widely reviewed as per Wikipedia:Notability (books). Reviews list now includes links to reviews by Publishers Weekly, Village Voice, The Believer, and American Book Review. Redirect and merge still seems fine, but book is notable. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.164.93.88 (talk) 02:40, 4 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

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Comment Created Reception and Foreign Edition sections. Still may make sense to redirect or move some content to the Nick Mamatas page. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 12.71.54.226 (talk) 23:20, 10 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was keep. Ron Ritzman (talk) 00:11, 24 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Cyril Houri

AfDs for this article:

Articles for deletion/Cyril Houri

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Is not notable, as per WP:AUTOBIO and WP:NOTRESUME. Boatimpeller (talk) 03:26, 2 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

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Keep, but copyedit ruthlessly, probably reducing to a stub. Google News and Google Books show sufficient coverage to establish notability, including a section about him in Who Controls the Internet? by Jack L. Goldsmith and Tim Wu, published by Oxford University Press. Pburka (talk) 11:52, 18 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Keep - In addition to teh above, also covered in Code 2.0 by Lawrence Lessig. -- Whpq (talk) 16:44, 19 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. -- Cirt (talk) 05:36, 20 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

The Phrase That Pays

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Singles generally do not meet WP:N, no mention of notability no references. A Previous AfD seems to have passed because everyone thought it was an album, Article says it is about single no mention of hitting any charts. JeepdaySock (AKA, Jeepday) 15:14, 2 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete Not supported by references. Chester Markel (talk) 05:10, 18 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Redirect to Almost Here (The Academy Is... album). The song is obviously not notable, and per WP:NSONG: "Most songs do not rise to notability for an independent article and should redirect to another relevant article, such as for the songwriter, a prominent album or for the artist who prominently performed the song." Also, the first two Keep !votes in the previous AfD were frivolous ("Song is on iTunes! It has a music video" -- call me when a reliable source decides to care), and the third, as the nom points out, seems to have thought it was an album. Glenfarclas (talk) 05:16, 18 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Delete no charting and fails WP:GNG. LibStar (talk) 08:18, 18 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was keep. (non-admin closure) Atmoz (talk) 16:16, 18 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Linux XP

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LinuxXP was discontinued in 2009, all three 'external links' are no longer in use. It's essentially a skinned Fedora install, and not notable outside of that. SudoGhost (talk) 15:26, 2 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Keep Notability isn't temporary. [82] [83] [84] Adding to the article. Dennis Brown (talk) 17:31, 2 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Comment TechieMoe.com is a blog, and and tuxmachines.org entry is user-submitted, which falls under WP:SPS. Neither of which can establish notability. The linux.com review is the only source that can establish notability, just about everything I found online was blogs, nothing that establishes notability (with the exception of the one linux.com review). - SudoGhost (talk) 21:35, 2 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Reply The others are weaker, true, but not trivial even if they don't pass RS, but if you check Scholar, (takes some filtering) you see it is given more than a passing mention in benchmark comparisons. In an admittedly borderline case like this, I always ask myself "Which is better for Wikipedia, keeping or deleting?" (via WP:IAR and others). In this case, it was a real software package, is still being used, and was the subject of at least some study, one major review (The Linux.com article is pretty extensive) and even the "less reliable" sources are serious sources that aren't lined with row after row of Google ads. That it was only a "shell" on top of RedHat doesn't matter as to notability, as CentOS is technically even less, being RedHat with the logos stripped. Regardless, in borderline cases where there aren't issues of it being spam, BLP, NPOV, etc., I think keeping is a better solution as it improves Wikipedia more than deleting it does. And when all is said and done, the 'rules' were made with that singular purpose in mind. I will also say that this is a difficult term to search for ("Linux, xp" keeps cropping up, which is unrelated), so there may be more refs that are not so easy to find, yet exist. Dennis Brown (talk) 00:35, 3 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

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Keep per linux.com review. Chester Markel (talk) 01:14, 16 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Keep Discontinued is not a reason for deletion; rather, that we included things important in the past also is one of the things that makes us an encyclopedia. DGG ( talk ) 05:30, 16 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was soft delete. King of ♥ ♦ ♣ ♠ 18:23, 25 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Promo (Flight Only)

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Poorly sourced article on rare promotional CD. Originally, this article was about one song on the disc. As sources were insufficient for that, it was changed to its current focus. Neither one has significant coverage in independent sources (see article talk page for specific problems with the sources. Not notable as a song or a CD, per WP:NSONG/WP:MUSIC. SummerPhD (talk) 15:37, 2 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Keep It might take a while, but me, and/or other users can probably find reliable sources. Plus, this item is very much in demand in the fan community, and very much speculated about. Having info here could help interested fans, like me. AttilaBrady (talk) 19:19, 2 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- Comment - You have a week to 10 days or so to find those reliable sources. Without them, the recording is not notable and the article will, most likely, be deleted. Prior to that, you might ask to have the article userfied. That would result in it being moved to a subpage of your user page where you can continue to work on it, without it being "live" on Wikipedia. - SummerPhD (talk) 19:51, 2 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Comment - Anyone looking for sources on this recording should note that, AFAICT, the title of this article is not the title of the recording (which does not seem to have a title). The song titles ~~and executives in the back story~~ might be your best bets. That one of the songs was a significant single, another was later released and the third is also the name of a blockbuster movie that Jackson had some ties to makes this a tough search. All I've been able to come up with are the story currently (incorrectly) cited as being from "oneindia Entertainment", copies of it, variants of it, forum postings based on it, etc. along with a bumper crop of articles that are tangentially related to this (several of which are currently cited in the article being discussed here). Good luck! (Edited above: The executives I mentioned seem to be named in the later variations of this story. Searching for them might be misdirecting.) - SummerPhD (talk) 19:51, 2 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete Album fails WP:NALBUM and WP:GNG. The sources consist of an editor remembering a quote of someone's opinion in an eBay auction that is no longer searchable, a dead link and the rest are about the songs and not the album itself. Aspects (talk) 03:55, 21 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was redirect to Astrium. King of ♥ ♦ ♣ ♠ 18:23, 25 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Tesat-Spacecom

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Contested prod Daniel Case (talk) 15:45, 2 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Comment. There is currently no deletion rationale and therefore nothing to discuss. On what grounds do you propose deletion? RichardOSmith (talk) 16:27, 2 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

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Redirect/Merge to the parent company Astrium. [85] I assume the nomination was based on notability, and that's a fair argument; although there are quite a few hits at Google News most are passing mentions rather than in-depth significant coverage. --MelanieN (talk) 00:54, 8 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

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Redirect to Astrium per MelanieN. Chester Markel (talk) 05:08, 18 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was keep. Owen× ☎ 18:08, 16 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Arhangel

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No reference tag since December 2009. Needs references to establish notability. Nipsonanomhmata ^(Talk) 16:00, 2 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Keep - lots of Macedonian language references, including this one - [86]. I'm pretty sure that an editor with a decent understanding of the language should be able to justify keeping this based on the criteria of WP:BAND, but I'm finding it hard to extricate information via google translate. --Anthem of joy (talk) 17:12, 2 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

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Keep: Nom is invalid. Lack of references is only a valid deletion rationale for BLP-PROD articles created after March 18, 2010. Also, multiple foreign-language sources do appear to exist.--Milowent • ^talkblp-r 17:30, 9 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Comment. I would go further than Milowent's "invalid" and class this as a bad faith nomination from an editor who seems to think that any article about a subject associated with any of Greece's neighbours (don't you get on with anyone?) should be deleted. There are many examples of such ethnic-POV nominations in Nipsonanomhmata's editing history, including the ridiculous nomination of Rauf Denktaş. Phil Bridger (talk) 21:11, 9 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

That's a bad faith comment and a personal attack. This was a random article that I came across with an old no reference tag. Denktash was not a ridiculous nomination. He was a thug who made himself the president of an illegal puppet regime. He deserves to be nominated every hour of the day and every day of the week for eternity. Why don't you stick to the subject at hand and make a recommendation on this article. If you think Arhangel is worth keeping then why not do something constructive instead and say so. Nipsonanomhmata ^(Talk) 00:37, 10 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Nips., i have no idea what you are talking about, but it doesn't help your argument any. Lots of thugs (real or alleged) are notable.--Milowent • ^talkblp-r 03:31, 10 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

The only notability claimed was "President" and a President he never was (only the Republic of Turkey thinks that he was) [and no independent foreign-country citations from reliable third-party sources are provided within the article, which is why I nominated him i.e. his "Presidency" lacked notability]. He wasn't even a notable thug. Hope that clarifies it for you. But we are off-topic and this has nothing to do with Arhangel and btw there are still no references listed in the article. Nipsonanomhmata ^(Talk) 20:32, 11 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Keep - Article needs improvement, which is possible given the foreign language sources available. A need for improvement is not a valid reason for deletion. Also, those who are suspicious about the nomination are probably barking up the right tree. --DOOMSDAYER520 (Talk|Contribs) 17:35, 11 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Comment A Greek nationalist who wants to delete the neighbouring country's rock groups based on nationalist reasons. Why? Because the Greek motherland will lose prestige if RoM's rock groups succeed? Tsk tsk.Please re-examine your logic. Dr.K. ^{λogosπraxis} 17:57, 11 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, you're right. I'll have to think of a better strategy to take over the world. :-) rofl Nipsonanomhmata ^(Talk) 22:25, 11 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I could see a plausible reason to be accused of nationalist motives if the group were named "Alexander the Great" or "Macedonia is ours" but "Arhangel" is quite an uncontroversial name. On the other hand you may be motivated by the belief that Greek rock is so superior to the version in RoM that you can't stand seeing these upstarts trying to steal the glory of the motherland. I can't say that I'd blame you for that. Dr.K. ^{λogosπraxis} 22:45, 11 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was keep. Wizardman _{Operation Big Bear} 03:23, 18 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

P. J. Gallagher (boxer)

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Poorly sourced biography of a living person. Notability per WP:ATHLETE seems questionable. Main contributor PJ Gallagher (Boxer) (talk · contribs) might be in a conflict of interest. bender235 (talk) 18:31, 2 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

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Comment - the article certainly needs a lot of work, but isn't it claiming that Gallagher was the WBC International Super Featherweight Champion in 1996? (seems to be backed up here), and so doesn't he meet Wikipedia:ATHLETE#Boxing criterion # 1? I'm asking so tentatively because I really know nothing about boxing, but he looks fairly notable to me. WP:COI may be a problem, but is not a reason to delete. --Beloved Freak 20:12, 2 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

If he won the World Championship, he is notable. But that claim is unsourced. The entire article is basically w/out any references. --bender235 (talk) 20:29, 2 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Belovedfreak provided a source for the claim in the comment above. Phil Bridger (talk) 22:31, 4 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Keep as a WBC champion. Phil Bridger (talk) 22:31, 4 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

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Keep. Verified that he meets the boxing criteria set out at WP:NSPORTS. Jenks24 (talk) 11:45, 11 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was redirect to Anacostia (WMATA station). Owen× ☎ 18:05, 16 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

River Spirits of the Anacostia

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Am not seeing where this article passes WP:GNG, requiring significant coverage in multiple reliable sources. It's Metro station artwork, and is already discussed at Anacostia (WMATA station). SchuminWeb (Talk) 18:44, 2 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Redirect to Anacostia (WMATA station); there's nothing there that's not in Anacostia (WMATA station), and I'm not seeing any independent notability in sources either. If and when appropriate, a spin-out article can be written. As it is, it remains a plausible search term. --Beloved Freak 19:55, 2 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

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Keep. This artwork is a unique and important thing. Simply re-tag it for a call for expansion. NO need to delete it or merge it, it just needs to be expanded. It has two solid reference ... certainly there are more.--RichardMcCoy (talk) 12:38, 5 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- I fail to see where this is more notable than, for instance, the big Chinatown fan at Gallery Place, which is treated entirely within the article about the station. SchuminWeb (Talk) 16:03, 8 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

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- I don't see a substantial mention of a "big Chinatown fan." Was this thing made by an artist? Does it have title? --RichardMcCoy (talk) 01:01, 9 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  - Specifically, the passage reads: "Originally named "Gallery Place" after the nearby National Portrait Gallery and Smithsonian American Art Museum, "Chinatown" was added to the station name in 1986 (although the station's signage was not replaced until 1990^{[citation needed]}) and in 2000, a large Chinese-style fan, entitled The Glory of the Chinese Descendants, was installed over the 7th and H Street entrance." That's the "big Chinatown fan" in the Gallery Place – Chinatown (WMATA station) article which I speak of. SchuminWeb (Talk) 06:28, 9 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Oh, right. This fan could have an article unto itself for sure. Like this tile mosaic, this fan is made by a notable artist, in a notable location. Assuming the article was well researched, I'm sure there is plenty of mention of both of these things in appropriate places. --RichardMcCoy (talk) 11:51, 9 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Redirect to Anacostia (WMATA station) which has more detail than the article anyway. No point tagging for expansion. Johnbod (talk) 16:27, 12 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Why is their no point in expanding this article? --RichardMcCoy (talk) 17:19, 12 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

There may be a point in expanding it, but adding a tag is most unlikely to achieve this. There are over 90,000 articles in Category:Articles to be expanded, which is supposed to exclude stubs like this one. About 15,000 date back to 2008 or earlier. Johnbod (talk) 17:33, 12 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was keep. Spartaz ^Humbug! 14:15, 18 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Alien Workshop

AfDs for this article:

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This appears to be a small company owned, way up the line, by Burton Snowboards, itself better known, but not terribly large either. This article is mainly a vehicle for vandals wanting to insert their favorite, though unknown, skateboarders. Perhaps it could be merged into Burton or some other company. Or just plain deleted. It won't be greatly missed! Student7 (talk) 20:25, 2 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Comment Given that this article has survived one AFD already, it would help if the nominator would say what they think has changed since then. Sergeant Cribb (talk) 20:50, 2 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

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Previous nom seems to have been kept based on "Google Hits" and Votes rather than actual criteria for notability. The article is still lacking sources. Google Hits aren't considered valid anymore, and deletion reviews are not "votes". I would say Delete unless sources can be found for the article. Most of what I found has been trivial mentions of someone owning this type of skateboard, rather than articles about the company. Denaar (talk) 16:30, 4 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

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Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Ron Ritzman (talk) 00:01, 9 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Keep. ESPN said the company has one of skateboarding's "most respected squads" here. Their clothing line received in depth attention in Knight-Ridder newspapers here. They were described as one of the "top skateboard companies" in an article about the miniature skateboard fad in the The Gazette in Colorado Springs here. Their diversification from skateboards to clothing and other products was described in a Myrtle Beach Sun News article here. MTV described their skateboarding team as "legendary" here. In the skateboarding world, the magazine called Thrasher helps determine notability, and they profiled the company here. As for the accusations of vandalism by the nominator, I recommend a review of the relevant policy, which begins with this definition: "Vandalism is any addition, removal, or change of content in a deliberate attempt to compromise the integrity of Wikipedia. Examples of typical vandalism are adding irrelevant obscenities and crude humor to a page, illegitimately blanking pages, and inserting patent nonsense into a page." If a new editor inserts the name of a skateboarder into the team members section of this article, that is absolutely not vandalism, although there may be other legitimate reasons to revert such an edit. Calling such an editor a "vandal" is wrong. It is OK to criticize an edit, but it is not OK to call an editor who has not vandalized a "vandal".Cullen328 (talk)
Comment. In the event that this Afd fails, I will expect Sergeant Cribb and/or Cullen328 to add this article to their watchlist and keep up with vandals, who are the only editors interested in it. I'm outta here either way. Student7 (talk) 13:07, 11 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was delete. -- Cirt (talk) 05:36, 20 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Culturalism

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Essay that should only be a dicdef. delete - UtherSRG (talk) 21:39, 2 May 2011 (UTC) UtherSRG (talk) 21:39, 2 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Keep. There's an article to be written about this ideology. However, as it stands it is a very poor article. No references, and a fair bit of what may be OR and POV. But I'd give it a chance to prove itself before deleting. --Escape Orbit ^(Talk) 22:09, 2 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete - If no supporting references can be found. The concept is valid, but is the terminology valid? It seems like a Neologism when used this way. It looks like a similar article for "monoculturalism" was created and merged into the multiculturalism article, that term seems to be more valid. Denaar (talk) 06:09, 4 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

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Delete Not supported by references. Chester Markel (talk) 05:07, 18 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Delete Looks like an original essay, and the content itself is questionable (for example, the Tea Party is portrayed as a political party, and as "culturalist" when its main focus is on economic concerns). Kansan (talk) 15:36, 18 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

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The result was keep, as notability of subject has been established by this discussion. The discussion below suggests that further sourcing of the article may be necessary, but I won't make it part of the closing condition. Der yck C. 19:20, 25 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Diana Santos

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Unable to find reliable, secondary sources providing in-depth coverage of this voice actor. The name is sufficiently common (e.g, the significantly more notable computational linguist of the same name), however, that there's a chance I've missed something. Long-term unreferenced BLP. joe decker ^{talk to me} 23:47, 2 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

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Note Not a hoax, www.imbd.com, voicechasers.com, but unsure if there is enough information for an article. It looks like most her significant voice work is pre-internet. I had a little bit of luck searching spanish pages for "Diana Santos actriz de voz", such as this article that mentions she did the voice of Takeshi in Miss Comet. [87] Someone who can read Spanish might try that search, as well as "Diana Santos" and the Spanish names of films she was in and parts she played to find more information. Denaar (talk) 05:29, 4 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

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Keep, although a bit weak. Just the first page of results of a search for "Diana Santos" doblaje is enough to convince me that she is very well regarded in the dubbing community, and that her career spans 50+ years in major movies and series. The issue here is that, at least in Mexico, voice actors barely get any recognition at all, so you might as well have heard her voice your whole life but never knew who she actually was. Here are some links from that search, not the best sources ever, but they are mostly of an archiving nature (as opposed to advertising) 1 2 3 - frankieMR (talk) 00:11, 10 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

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[1] Authentication Revisited. 25 (3). March 1992 http://portal.acm.org/citation.cfm?id=J169&picked=prox&cfid=21318459&cftoken=81654866. {{cite journal}}: Missing or empty |title= (help)

[2] ttp://www.sunatimes.com/view.php?id=975

[3] ttp://somalilandpress.com/somalia-the-new-semi-state-within-the-semi-state-21852

[4] ttp://somalilandpress.com/somalia-the-new-semi-state-within-the-semi-state-21852

[5] ttp://www.sunatimes.com/view.php?id=975

[6] ttps://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/geos/so.html

[7] ttp://somalilandpress.com/somalia-the-new-semi-state-within-the-semi-state-21852

[8] ttp://www.monstersandcritics.com/news/asiapacific/news/article_1474388.php/WHO_confirms_Taiwan_invited_to_World_Health_Assembly

[9] ttp://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/asia-pacific/6913020.stm

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