Wikipedia:Featured and good topic candidates/Featured log/August 2007
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 Kingdom Hearts (series)
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 Kingdom Hearts - Kingdom Hearts: Chain of Memories - Kingdom Hearts II
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This is my third VG Topic nom, but finally one where I played the game... all of those articles were in bad shape, with {{unferenced}}, {{cleanup}} and such. But recently huge improvements were made, with three articles pushed to GA status and one to FA. igordebraga ≠ 15:58, 16 July 2007 (UTC)
Oppose for now. There should be at least two FAs per "several articles are of featured class" in WP:FT?.--Pharos 05:13, 17 July 2007 (UTC)- Support now. Congratulations on the second FA!--Pharos 04:30, 13 August 2007 (UTC)
- Comment - Kingdom Hearts II is almost ready for FA, it should be going up for nomination possibly within a few days. Should we put this FT nomination on hold until KHII passes or fails FAC?
Also, should this topic be named Kingdom Hearts series, instead of Kingdom Hearts titles? That way related articles other than the game titles can be added later. (Guyinblack25 16:29, 17 July 2007 (UTC))
- Actually, I put another one at the FAC right now. It is "titles" because only the games are in good shape so far, once the characters and universe articles get improved can, like the DMC one, become "KH game series", and when the music and manga go, "KH series". igordebraga ≠ 01:28, 18 July 2007 (UTC)
- I think it should be Kingdom Hearts series, or at least game series, because basically every other featured topic's name is related to the name of the lead article. After the game articles are finished I, and I believe other editors, intend to improve the support articles to at least GA to be included into the topic. Just trying to think proactively. (Guyinblack25 03:11, 18 July 2007 (UTC))
- Actually, I put another one at the FAC right now. It is "titles" because only the games are in good shape so far, once the characters and universe articles get improved can, like the DMC one, become "KH game series", and when the music and manga go, "KH series". igordebraga ≠ 01:28, 18 July 2007 (UTC)
Put on hold, there are too many articles that are presently being improved to FA status. Let's wait for those to go full circle before considering this FTC. Axem Titanium 02:05, 18 July 2007 (UTC)- Support, as it currently is. KHII will be FA soon, I believe. Axem Titanium 16:20, 14 August 2007 (UTC)
Oppose for now per the reasons explained above. Besides, you didn't even announce this FT nomination on the articles' talkpages; I wouldn't have been aware of it if I hadn't stumbled upon a message on Axem's talkpage, which doesn't concern me at all but was on my watchlist. Kariteh 08:52, 18 July 2007 (UTC)- Support There are two FAs in the topic now. Kariteh 09:27, 4 August 2007 (UTC)
- Put on hold for now as per all of the reasons explained above. Greg Jones II 14:17, 18 July 2007 (UTC)
- Support chain of memories is now an FA! I vote for this featured topic! Judgesurreal777 17:27, 3 August 2007 (UTC)
- Comment - Hate to sound like a broken record, but what about the name, Kingdom Hearts titles or Kingdom Hearts series? (Guyinblack25 talk 04:04, 4 August 2007 (UTC))
- I've boldly moved it to the more general name. There's no sense in avoiding "series" solely because there are only titles in the current topic nom. The name is just a name; the scope is what we make of it. Axem Titanium 05:13, 4 August 2007 (UTC)
- Support, though for consistency's sake I think it should stay at "KH titles". --PresN 13:10, 4 August 2007 (UTC)
- Why? The main article is "Kingdom Hearts (series)", not "Kingdom Hearts titles" or "List of Kingdom Hearts titles". Kariteh 14:33, 4 August 2007 (UTC)
- In any case, maybe we could add in Universe of Kingdom Hearts in the topic now that it just passed Good Article? Kariteh 14:36, 4 August 2007 (UTC)
- You read my mind Kariteh, anybody oppose the idea of adding it in? (Guyinblack25 talk 16:05, 4 August 2007 (UTC))
Well, since I'm assuming there are no objections, I've added in Universe of Kingdom Hearts to the topic since it recently reached GA. (Guyinblack25 talk 19:33, 6 August 2007 (UTC))- Actually, I object, for two reasons. 1) The above supporters approved of this FTC based on the previous list of articles in the nom; a good way to fix this is to speedy close this FTC and start a fresh, new one. 2) It is against FT criteria to pick and choose good articles out of the pack to include in a FT. They would be arbitrarily defined inclusion criteria, a very bad thing. In order to include Universe, both Characters and Music must reach GA and one of the three must reach FA as well. Sorry, guys, but rules are rules. Axem Titanium 15:49, 7 August 2007 (UTC)
- Ok, I can't argue with the first reason. Besides I believe that there is a procedure for adding new articles into a FT, there's no hurry. Now at the risk of going off topic. I realize this might turn into a lengthy discussion, so I won't go into my reasons why I disagree with reason #2. I'll save that for a later date if it comes up. Don't get me wrong, I have every intention on trying to get the character and music articles up to GA. But at this point I'm not sure if enough content and references are available to accomplish that and I'd hate to see one of the articles that is GA excluded. If those are the rules those are the rules, but I feel that the inclusion of one by itself satisfies the rules. (Guyinblack25 talk 16:33, 7 August 2007 (UTC))
- Just to clarify, the universe article would qualify as "supplementary" to the main articles and the topic would have to be defined as KH games and supplements to include universe, but since music and characters also qualify as supplements, they must be brought up first before nominating. A similar thing happened with certain parts of the Solar System FT nom. Axem Titanium 17:54, 7 August 2007 (UTC)
- Ok, I can't argue with the first reason. Besides I believe that there is a procedure for adding new articles into a FT, there's no hurry. Now at the risk of going off topic. I realize this might turn into a lengthy discussion, so I won't go into my reasons why I disagree with reason #2. I'll save that for a later date if it comes up. Don't get me wrong, I have every intention on trying to get the character and music articles up to GA. But at this point I'm not sure if enough content and references are available to accomplish that and I'd hate to see one of the articles that is GA excluded. If those are the rules those are the rules, but I feel that the inclusion of one by itself satisfies the rules. (Guyinblack25 talk 16:33, 7 August 2007 (UTC))
- Actually, I object, for two reasons. 1) The above supporters approved of this FTC based on the previous list of articles in the nom; a good way to fix this is to speedy close this FTC and start a fresh, new one. 2) It is against FT criteria to pick and choose good articles out of the pack to include in a FT. They would be arbitrarily defined inclusion criteria, a very bad thing. In order to include Universe, both Characters and Music must reach GA and one of the three must reach FA as well. Sorry, guys, but rules are rules. Axem Titanium 15:49, 7 August 2007 (UTC)
- You read my mind Kariteh, anybody oppose the idea of adding it in? (Guyinblack25 talk 16:05, 4 August 2007 (UTC))
- In any case, maybe we could add in Universe of Kingdom Hearts in the topic now that it just passed Good Article? Kariteh 14:36, 4 August 2007 (UTC)
- Does wikipedia/commons have a good key image to use for this topic now that its ready? Judgesurreal777 20:28, 9 August 2007 (UTC)
- This one from Flickr is free [1] Kariteh 20:47, 9 August 2007 (UTC)
- Wow, that's free for use? That would be a pretty awesome picture to have as the key image. (Guyinblack25 talk 21:13, 9 August 2007 (UTC))
- Yeah, it was taken by someone who put it under a Creative Common licence. Kind of like this one which is used on the FFXII article. (These kinds of pictures are also used in Wikipedias in which fair-use screenshots are not allowed, like on the French Wikipedia.) Kariteh 22:18, 9 August 2007 (UTC)
- OK, I know this is off topic, but does that mean I could take a picture of some of my KH merchandise, say like a group photo of the formation arts and playarts figures for use in maybe a merchandise section in the KH characters article? (Guyinblack25 talk 22:42, 9 August 2007 (UTC))
- As long as there's no poster/cover/TV screen, it's fine. One can be very creative with these sorts of grouped things :) Kariteh 07:51, 10 August 2007 (UTC)
- I've uploaded the picture to Wikicommons. Image:Kingdom Hearts Sora.jpg. Kariteh 18:45, 11 August 2007 (UTC)
- Unfortunately, photographs of toys of copyrighted characters like that are Commons:Derivative works and that image will have to be deleted from Commons. I suggest you look for a different key image—something that's evocative of the series, maybe a simple heart or something.--Pharos 04:30, 13 August 2007 (UTC)
- It's not a "toy" by any definition. It's a large statue! photographs of publicly exposed 3-d art are not considered derivatives, as far as I know: Image:Nef-detail.jpg, Image:Calder-montreal.jpg, Image:Le Phare du Cosmos.JPG, Image:Marcelleferron.jpg, Image:MintoParkMemorial.JPG. All of those are by artists whose works are not in the public domain. Circeus 15:50, 14 August 2007 (UTC)
- Excuse me, it looked like a toy—but it doesn't make a difference anyway in this case. Freedom of panorama only applies to permanent statues (commons:Freedom of panorama) when it does apply, and it doesn't apply to statues at all under American law. Canadian law thankfully does permit freedom of panorama for statues, and since your other examples seem to be permanent structures, they are all OK for us.--Pharos 17:44, 14 August 2007 (UTC)
- It's not a "toy" by any definition. It's a large statue! photographs of publicly exposed 3-d art are not considered derivatives, as far as I know: Image:Nef-detail.jpg, Image:Calder-montreal.jpg, Image:Le Phare du Cosmos.JPG, Image:Marcelleferron.jpg, Image:MintoParkMemorial.JPG. All of those are by artists whose works are not in the public domain. Circeus 15:50, 14 August 2007 (UTC)
- Unfortunately, photographs of toys of copyrighted characters like that are Commons:Derivative works and that image will have to be deleted from Commons. I suggest you look for a different key image—something that's evocative of the series, maybe a simple heart or something.--Pharos 04:30, 13 August 2007 (UTC)
- I've uploaded the picture to Wikicommons. Image:Kingdom Hearts Sora.jpg. Kariteh 18:45, 11 August 2007 (UTC)
- As long as there's no poster/cover/TV screen, it's fine. One can be very creative with these sorts of grouped things :) Kariteh 07:51, 10 August 2007 (UTC)
- OK, I know this is off topic, but does that mean I could take a picture of some of my KH merchandise, say like a group photo of the formation arts and playarts figures for use in maybe a merchandise section in the KH characters article? (Guyinblack25 talk 22:42, 9 August 2007 (UTC))
- Yeah, it was taken by someone who put it under a Creative Common licence. Kind of like this one which is used on the FFXII article. (These kinds of pictures are also used in Wikipedias in which fair-use screenshots are not allowed, like on the French Wikipedia.) Kariteh 22:18, 9 August 2007 (UTC)
- Wow, that's free for use? That would be a pretty awesome picture to have as the key image. (Guyinblack25 talk 21:13, 9 August 2007 (UTC))
- Seeing all the dispute, perhaps you could use this key image. igordebraga ≠ 21:48, 14 August 2007 (UTC)
- That key image wouldn't be bad. I have a question though, where did the image for the Final Fantasy topics come from? Could we make something similar for this topic image? (Guyinblack25 talk 16:46, 21 August 2007 (UTC))
- This one from Flickr is free [1] Kariteh 20:47, 9 August 2007 (UTC)
- Why? The main article is "Kingdom Hearts (series)", not "Kingdom Hearts titles" or "List of Kingdom Hearts titles". Kariteh 14:33, 4 August 2007 (UTC)
